Is Liquimoly Overrated?

[K20FA5]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
0
Originally Posted by 400rwkw
It is but Liqui Moly are one of the only companies that doesnt use it to their advantage as many claim. All of Liqui Moly "SYNTHOIL" oils are in fact full Synthetic (PAO). They have always been clear that most of their oils are HC and they use names like synthetic technology etc not 'full synthetic' or 'true synthetic' as most other companies do. Its about the end product and its specs and approvals, as most say here, then argue over tiny variations in additive packs and specifications etc etc. I do not work for Liqui Moly lol. Enjoy that car TiGeo with the green oil its good stuff.


The semantics of the titling w/r to Group 3/4 is silly to me. Some I'm sure want the bottle to say "Group 4 PAO" or "Group 3 HC" to be more transparent. If the oil has the OEM approval it meets the required specs and is good to go. If Group 3 or 4 mattered so much, the OEM would work that in to the approval.


That's why I use it in our Volvo. It's the least expensive, easiest to get oil that meets the OEM spec.

 

[Spooled]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Spooled


Does that mean Mobil and She'll are bad oils? No. Does it mean they are being deceptive as Liqui-Moly has been labeled as in their claims years back? I guess that just depends on your perspective.


Mobil Super 4T appears on that list multiple times under different vendors, which is interesting. Mobil 1 V-Twin doesn't claim to carry JASO MA:
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...products/products/mobil-1-v-twin-20w-50/


Overkill, I always respect your feedback I read on this forum. I am not sure Mobil Super 4T is the same product as Mobil 1 Racing 4T that is sold here in the United States. The Mobil Super 4T definitely has some different grades available versus Mobil 1 Racing 4T. I simply don't know if they are the same product. I think if Mobil 1 Racing 4T had done the certification, it would appear under that name on the list. It is a very good and popular motorcycle oil.

Mobil makes great oil, no doubt, I was just pointing out that pretty much all motor oils have claims that may or may not be valid and it seemed Liqui-Moly was being called out for it. Of course the thread is about Liqui-Moly...ƒ

 

[TiGeo]

With FCP Euro, you pay $21 to ship your old oil back and receive a full refund of the $~60 kit purchase price. So there will be nothing cheaper than that for a complete oil change for my car at Walmart or anywhere.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Spooled
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Spooled


Does that mean Mobil and She'll are bad oils? No. Does it mean they are being deceptive as Liqui-Moly has been labeled as in their claims years back? I guess that just depends on your perspective.


Mobil Super 4T appears on that list multiple times under different vendors, which is interesting. Mobil 1 V-Twin doesn't claim to carry JASO MA:
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants...products/products/mobil-1-v-twin-20w-50/


Overkill, I always respect your feedback I read on this forum. I am not sure Mobil Super 4T is the same product as Mobil 1 Racing 4T that is sold here in the United States. The Mobil Super 4T definitely has some different grades available versus Mobil 1 Racing 4T. I simply don't know if they are the same product. I think if Mobil 1 Racing 4T had done the certification, it would appear under that name on the list. It is a very good and popular motorcycle oil.

Mobil makes great oil, no doubt, I was just pointing out that pretty much all motor oils have claims that may or may not be valid and it seemed Liqui-Moly was being called out for it. Of course the thread is about Liqui-Moly...ƒ


Ahhh, didn't realize you meant the racing one, which is why I looked at the V-Twin product. Using the Internet Archive to look at when it was approved (the 4T racing product):
2006:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060307034607/http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

That's the last time

Perhaps they haven't updated it since? The process appears to be like the API where you self-certify and then submit. I expect if we reach out to them we'll find that it's approved IMHO.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
Ah, the whole "this isn't really synthetic" but says "synthetic" thing - so they use Group 3 HC and it says "fully synthetic" - I thought this was the standard marketing across many brands.

I am not sure you are fallowing, or you purposely trying to twist words. I said end of 1990's, and I am not going into details why it matters as not sure it is getting to you.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by 400rwkw
It is but Liqui Moly are one of the only companies that doesnt use it to their advantage as many claim. All of Liqui Moly "SYNTHOIL" oils are in fact full Synthetic (PAO). They have always been clear that most of their oils are HC and they use names like synthetic technology etc not 'full synthetic' or 'true synthetic' as most other companies do. Its about the end product and its specs and approvals, as most say here, then argue over tiny variations in additive packs and specifications etc etc. I do not work for Liqui Moly lol. Enjoy that car TiGeo with the green oil its good stuff.

Those are not tiny variations.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
0
Originally Posted by 400rwkw
It is but Liqui Moly are one of the only companies that doesnt use it to their advantage as many claim. All of Liqui Moly "SYNTHOIL" oils are in fact full Synthetic (PAO). They have always been clear that most of their oils are HC and they use names like synthetic technology etc not 'full synthetic' or 'true synthetic' as most other companies do. Its about the end product and its specs and approvals, as most say here, then argue over tiny variations in additive packs and specifications etc etc. I do not work for Liqui Moly lol. Enjoy that car TiGeo with the green oil its good stuff.


The semantics of the titling w/r to Group 3/4 is silly to me. Some I'm sure want the bottle to say "Group 4 PAO" or "Group 3 HC" to be more transparent. If the oil has the OEM approval it meets the required specs and is good to go. If Group 3 or 4 mattered so much, the OEM would work that in to the approval.

No one is talking about Group III or IV. Again, either you do not read what is written or you trying to justify to someone (yourself) why you using that oil.
Listen, it is your car, you can use PAM grease for grilling in your engine. I really do not care. Here on forum on other hand expect feedback. You convinced yourself that this is Group III vs. other base stock bcs. you do not read what others are writing.
So, for the sake of argument, you can compare that green POS with other Group III oils. For example you can compare it to old out of production Mobil1 0W40 which was Group III, and in every measurable performance discipline it is better than what LM offers; pretty much any oil LM offers, Group III or PAO.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Spooled
I don't have a dog in this fight, but from a motorcycle oil perspective, I have noticed that saying you meet a spec, and actually having the testing approved MAY be two different things.

While Liqui-Moly may have had some issue many years ago concerning their base stock, I don't know this for sure, but I have no reason to doubt edyvw's claim, I will say that they when it comes to motorcycle ratings, they do have the proper ratings on file.

JASO MA ratings for motorcycle are published here. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

While you do see Liqui-Moly listed, you don't see many other oils listed that claim the spec. No Mobil 1 and interestingly, no BMW Advatec, BMW's own motorcycle oil. Both claim to meet the spec, and actually might, but they haven't certified that when looking at the listed oils.

I get it, it cost money to actually get the certification, but it does show Liqui-Moly took the initiative to pay for and get the certification. It doesn't appear that Mobil or BMW Advantec (Shell Oil) have the certification from a strictly by the book way of viewing it.

Does that mean Mobil and She'll are bad oils? No. Does it mean they are being deceptive as Liqui-Moly has been labeled as in their claims years back? I guess that just depends on your perspective.

Again, for a motorcycle oil, MA is a spec that most every manufacturer specifies. Many people believe it is a spec that needs to be met to satisfy the manufacturer's warranty requirements, while others believe it to be ignored. That's a whole other discussion. I will say that oils that pass the spec and go through the registering process, almost always put the MA square logo, with the registered number prominently on their bottle.

I use Motul 7100 in my BMW, but I know a lot of owners use Liqui-Moly with good results as well.

I do not understand why would that be important to BMW? BMW for example still has API SL 5W30 oil bcs. a. they do not care about API standard they care about their own standard.
Point here is not whether Liqui Moly will do ok or be approved. That green MOLYWHATEVER they sell is approved oil. But approvals are minimum standard, and as I said to OP, eliminate other (better) choices and I will use it too. However, when you post something along the lines "green gold" well, it is really not gold, and let's see other oils.
Numerous other oils that are more accessible are better performers and cheaper by the way. That means it comes to marketing by FCPEuro (and other companies) and Liquy Moly.
Is Liqui Moly OK in his VW? Yes.
Is it worth money: Well, if you think that jug is, maybe. Oil is not.

 

[4WD]

I take all that to mean "yes"

 

[Spooled]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Spooled
I don't have a dog in this fight, but from a motorcycle oil perspective, I have noticed that saying you meet a spec, and actually having the testing approved MAY be two different things.

While Liqui-Moly may have had some issue many years ago concerning their base stock, I don't know this for sure, but I have no reason to doubt edyvw's claim, I will say that they when it comes to motorcycle ratings, they do have the proper ratings on file.

JASO MA ratings for motorcycle are published here. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

While you do see Liqui-Moly listed, you don't see many other oils listed that claim the spec. No Mobil 1 and interestingly, no BMW Advatec, BMW's own motorcycle oil. Both claim to meet the spec, and actually might, but they haven't certified that when looking at the listed oils.

I get it, it cost money to actually get the certification, but it does show Liqui-Moly took the initiative to pay for and get the certification. It doesn't appear that Mobil or BMW Advantec (Shell Oil) have the certification from a strictly by the book way of viewing it.

Does that mean Mobil and She'll are bad oils? No. Does it mean they are being deceptive as Liqui-Moly has been labeled as in their claims years back? I guess that just depends on your perspective.

Again, for a motorcycle oil, MA is a spec that most every manufacturer specifies. Many people believe it is a spec that needs to be met to satisfy the manufacturer's warranty requirements, while others believe it to be ignored. That's a whole other discussion. I will say that oils that pass the spec and go through the registering process, almost always put the MA square logo, with the registered number prominently on their bottle.

I use Motul 7100 in my BMW, but I know a lot of owners use Liqui-Moly with good results as well.

I do not understand why would that be important to BMW? BMW for example still has API SL 5W30 oil bcs. a. they do not care about API standard they care about their own standard.
Point here is not whether Liqui Moly will do ok or be approved. That green MOLYWHATEVER they sell is approved oil. But approvals are minimum standard, and as I said to OP, eliminate other (better) choices and I will use it too. However, when you post something along the lines "green gold" well, it is really not gold, and let's see other oils.
Numerous other oils that are more accessible are better performers and cheaper by the way. That means it comes to marketing by FCPEuro (and other companies) and Liquy Moly.
Is Liqui Moly OK in his VW? Yes.
Is it worth money: Well, if you think that jug is, maybe. Oil is not.



edyvw - I was upfront that I was speaking about motorcycle oils, in particular BMW motorcycles. BMW does not specify 5W30 in any of their bikes currently for sale in the USA. They specify either 5W40 or 15W50 depending on the bike / scooter.

My point was that if Liqui-Moly chose to advertise Group 3 oil as synthetic, which is "legal" in some markets, other oil companies claim specs that may or may not be met, and JASO is an example of that. Of course I think companies should be upfront on what they are selling, but I don't see many oil companies listing the amount of each group their oils contain.

Why you don't understand why a certain spec is important to BMW really isn't a factor. For whatever reason it appears that certain specs are important to them and the list those in the owners manual. Right or wrong, a lot of people do not want to vary from those requirements, especially while the vehicle is under warranty.

While I don't share your distaste for Liqui-Moly, I do share your belief of someone running whatever they want in their vehicle. Of course that will bring on a discussion of whether to use regular Pam, Pam with olive oil, or for those looking to quickly seat their rings, Pam with flour....ƒ

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Ah, the whole "this isn't really synthetic" but says "synthetic" thing - so they use Group 3 HC and it says "fully synthetic" - I thought this was the standard marketing across many brands.

I am not sure you are fallowing, or you purposely trying to twist words. I said end of 1990's, and I am not going into details why it matters as not sure it is getting to you.


Clearly I am missing something here - why not provide the details to be more clear?

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
0
Originally Posted by 400rwkw
It is but Liqui Moly are one of the only companies that doesnt use it to their advantage as many claim. All of Liqui Moly "SYNTHOIL" oils are in fact full Synthetic (PAO). They have always been clear that most of their oils are HC and they use names like synthetic technology etc not 'full synthetic' or 'true synthetic' as most other companies do. Its about the end product and its specs and approvals, as most say here, then argue over tiny variations in additive packs and specifications etc etc. I do not work for Liqui Moly lol. Enjoy that car TiGeo with the green oil its good stuff.


The semantics of the titling w/r to Group 3/4 is silly to me. Some I'm sure want the bottle to say "Group 4 PAO" or "Group 3 HC" to be more transparent. If the oil has the OEM approval it meets the required specs and is good to go. If Group 3 or 4 mattered so much, the OEM would work that in to the approval.

No one is talking about Group III or IV. Again, either you do not read what is written or you trying to justify to someone (yourself) why you using that oil.
Listen, it is your car, you can use PAM grease for grilling in your engine. I really do not care. Here on forum on other hand expect feedback. You convinced yourself that this is Group III vs. other base stock bcs. you do not read what others are writing.
So, for the sake of argument, you can compare that green POS with other Group III oils. For example you can compare it to old out of production Mobil1 0W40 which was Group III, and in every measurable performance discipline it is better than what LM offers; pretty much any oil LM offers, Group III or PAO.


I have read the responses and figured the crux of it was base stock-related w/r to the lower HTHS/NOACK numbers you were talking about - clearly I am missing something based on how you are responding. Funny, I used to use that older M1 0W40 in my 2.0 Jetta for years and that car ran for 14 years/220K before selling it and then it ran another 6 years/60K with that owner.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by TiGeo
0
Originally Posted by 400rwkw
It is but Liqui Moly are one of the only companies that doesnt use it to their advantage as many claim. All of Liqui Moly "SYNTHOIL" oils are in fact full Synthetic (PAO). They have always been clear that most of their oils are HC and they use names like synthetic technology etc not 'full synthetic' or 'true synthetic' as most other companies do. Its about the end product and its specs and approvals, as most say here, then argue over tiny variations in additive packs and specifications etc etc. I do not work for Liqui Moly lol. Enjoy that car TiGeo with the green oil its good stuff.


The semantics of the titling w/r to Group 3/4 is silly to me. Some I'm sure want the bottle to say "Group 4 PAO" or "Group 3 HC" to be more transparent. If the oil has the OEM approval it meets the required specs and is good to go. If Group 3 or 4 mattered so much, the OEM would work that in to the approval.

No one is talking about Group III or IV. Again, either you do not read what is written or you trying to justify to someone (yourself) why you using that oil.
Listen, it is your car, you can use PAM grease for grilling in your engine. I really do not care. Here on forum on other hand expect feedback. You convinced yourself that this is Group III vs. other base stock bcs. you do not read what others are writing.
So, for the sake of argument, you can compare that green POS with other Group III oils. For example you can compare it to old out of production Mobil1 0W40 which was Group III, and in every measurable performance discipline it is better than what LM offers; pretty much any oil LM offers, Group III or PAO.


I have read the responses and figured the crux of it was base stock-related w/r to the lower HTHS/NOACK numbers you were talking about - clearly I am missing something based on how you are responding. Funny, I used to use that older M1 0W40 in my 2.0 Jetta for years and that car ran for 14 years/220K before selling it and then it ran another 6 years/60K with that owner.

It is final product, and LM is not delivering it, not base stock. There are differences among same base stock Group, additives, etc. etc.
So, since you used Mobil1 0W40, tell us what made you use LM over Mobil1?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Spooled
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Spooled
I don't have a dog in this fight, but from a motorcycle oil perspective, I have noticed that saying you meet a spec, and actually having the testing approved MAY be two different things.

While Liqui-Moly may have had some issue many years ago concerning their base stock, I don't know this for sure, but I have no reason to doubt edyvw's claim, I will say that they when it comes to motorcycle ratings, they do have the proper ratings on file.

JASO MA ratings for motorcycle are published here. http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

While you do see Liqui-Moly listed, you don't see many other oils listed that claim the spec. No Mobil 1 and interestingly, no BMW Advatec, BMW's own motorcycle oil. Both claim to meet the spec, and actually might, but they haven't certified that when looking at the listed oils.

I get it, it cost money to actually get the certification, but it does show Liqui-Moly took the initiative to pay for and get the certification. It doesn't appear that Mobil or BMW Advantec (Shell Oil) have the certification from a strictly by the book way of viewing it.

Does that mean Mobil and She'll are bad oils? No. Does it mean they are being deceptive as Liqui-Moly has been labeled as in their claims years back? I guess that just depends on your perspective.

Again, for a motorcycle oil, MA is a spec that most every manufacturer specifies. Many people believe it is a spec that needs to be met to satisfy the manufacturer's warranty requirements, while others believe it to be ignored. That's a whole other discussion. I will say that oils that pass the spec and go through the registering process, almost always put the MA square logo, with the registered number prominently on their bottle.

I use Motul 7100 in my BMW, but I know a lot of owners use Liqui-Moly with good results as well.

I do not understand why would that be important to BMW? BMW for example still has API SL 5W30 oil bcs. a. they do not care about API standard they care about their own standard.
Point here is not whether Liqui Moly will do ok or be approved. That green MOLYWHATEVER they sell is approved oil. But approvals are minimum standard, and as I said to OP, eliminate other (better) choices and I will use it too. However, when you post something along the lines "green gold" well, it is really not gold, and let's see other oils.
Numerous other oils that are more accessible are better performers and cheaper by the way. That means it comes to marketing by FCPEuro (and other companies) and Liquy Moly.
Is Liqui Moly OK in his VW? Yes.
Is it worth money: Well, if you think that jug is, maybe. Oil is not.



edyvw - I was upfront that I was speaking about motorcycle oils, in particular BMW motorcycles. BMW does not specify 5W30 in any of their bikes currently for sale in the USA. They specify either 5W40 or 15W50 depending on the bike / scooter.

My point was that if Liqui-Moly chose to advertise Group 3 oil as synthetic, which is "legal" in some markets, other oil companies claim specs that may or may not be met, and JASO is an example of that. Of course I think companies should be upfront on what they are selling, but I don't see many oil companies listing the amount of each group their oils contain.

Why you don't understand why a certain spec is important to BMW really isn't a factor. For whatever reason it appears that certain specs are important to them and the list those in the owners manual. Right or wrong, a lot of people do not want to vary from those requirements, especially while the vehicle is under warranty.

While I don't share your distaste for Liqui-Moly, I do share your belief of someone running whatever they want in their vehicle. Of course that will bring on a discussion of whether to use regular Pam, Pam with olive oil, or for those looking to quickly seat their rings, Pam with flour....ƒ

Who is talking about base stocks? OP here is stuck on base stocks and apparently thinks that is the only way you get better product, by running different base stock. I am very well aware about who can advertise what here etc. But that is not the point of this discussion.
The point is final product, which pales compared to readily available products.
So, I am still trying to figure out exactly what is in that LM that is "green gold?"

 

[400rwkw]

So, if you don't know what's in it, how does it pale in comparison to others... Don't tell me its because of spec sheet information available to the public... We don't know what's in the oil unless someone does a GCMS.

 

[TiGeo]

Decided to go with LM due to popularity in the enthusiast community...that's really it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
Decided to go with LM due to popularity in the enthusiast community...that's really it.

And don't forget it was because you thought the name and container looked good in your garage. Popular with the enthusiast community, cool container and impressive name. That's the ticket when it comes to oil choice.

Oh and because your doppelgänger/alter ego in this thread agrees with you.

 

[4WD]

There seems to be a pattern of "I'm thinking about buying a cool oil, what do you think."
Then a half dozen folks give sound reasons there are better choices (normally from 3 companies) for way less.
Then they buy it anyway after several pages on this site fill in.

 

[Spooled]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by ad244
Hey BITOGers
Ive never seen a oil analysis which really showed an amazing result when using Liquimoly.... Is the stuff overrated especially when you factor in the cost?

Can't most of the same spec's be met with a lot of the Mobil 1 or Castrol offerings?

BUT, you are paying those oversized Made in Germany letters? I mean, don't you feel you get AT LEAST 20hp using that oil?
Yes, Mobi1 and Castrol meet all those requirements and are available in Wal mart.
Liqui Moly is OK oil, but it is average in every aspect. They are more focused on marketing than anything. When Group III oils started to make their ways as "synthetic" Liqui Moly immediately switched to group III and by far was the most aggressive in selling it as something beneficial.


edyvw- I believe you were the first to mention base stocks in this thread on page one.

Again, I agree with you as far as in my opinion, there are choices I would make before choosing Liqui-Moly, even though it appears to be a satisfactory product.

 

[TiGeo]

Originally Posted by Spooled
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by ad244
Hey BITOGers
Ive never seen a oil analysis which really showed an amazing result when using Liquimoly.... Is the stuff overrated especially when you factor in the cost?

Can't most of the same spec's be met with a lot of the Mobil 1 or Castrol offerings?

BUT, you are paying those oversized Made in Germany letters? I mean, don't you feel you get AT LEAST 20hp using that oil?
Yes, Mobi1 and Castrol meet all those requirements and are available in Wal mart.
Liqui Moly is OK oil, but it is average in every aspect. They are more focused on marketing than anything. When Group III oils started to make their ways as "synthetic" Liqui Moly immediately switched to group III and by far was the most aggressive in selling it as something beneficial.


edyvw- I believe you were the first to mention base stocks in this thread on page one.

Again, I agree with you as far as in my opinion, there are choices I would make before choosing Liqui-Moly, even though it appears to be a satisfactory product.


Correct - edyvw talks about base stocks a lot w/r to other parameters early in the posts.