going to put a shift kit in my allison 1000 so need some fluid. Amazon has Havoline Dexron VI for $45 a case of 12 acdelco is $22 a gallon. I like Delo oils by chevron not sure how good Havoline is as a product line. So is it all equal??
Is all Dexron VI created equal??
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Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
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Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
It's spec'd for III (5spd) and VI (6 spd)?
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
It's spec'd for III (5spd) and VI (6 spd)?
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Originally Posted By: RichardS
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: RichardS
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
Whoops! Thanks 901 Memphis for the clarification!
Originally Posted By: RichardS
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
Whoops! Thanks 901 Memphis for the clarification!
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
I believe it's free shipping over $50(?) if not a Prime member. If you're a Prime member, it's free shipping on any amount.
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
I believe it's free shipping over $50(?) if not a Prime member. If you're a Prime member, it's free shipping on any amount.
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
I believe it's free shipping over $50(?) if not a Prime member. If you're a Prime member, it's free shipping on any amount.
It is $35 now; it changed yesterday. It is not clear why I know this, having purchased 1 thing from them 2 years ago.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/pf/amazon-lowers-free-shipping-non-prime-membership/
Originally Posted By: Lubener
Originally Posted By: BobsArmory
I've bought 3 cases of Havoline now from Amazon over the last couple years. Great stuff. Yep, they are all so similar that you would be hard pressed to find any difference. Havoline on Amazon is the sleeper of them all when it comes to price.
I never purchased on Amazon. Is the freight charges expensive for that case?
I believe it's free shipping over $50(?) if not a Prime member. If you're a Prime member, it's free shipping on any amount.
It is $35 now; it changed yesterday. It is not clear why I know this, having purchased 1 thing from them 2 years ago.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/pf/amazon-lowers-free-shipping-non-prime-membership/
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Meets GM minimum standards and likely a semi syn or full synthetic ... another time it is hard to prove "better" ...
Originally Posted By: nthach
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
Gm owners manual lists dexron VI as correct fluid. I could buy allison Transynd fluid but at $50 a gallon it seems like a waste since I am only going to get maybe half the factory fill out.
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
Gm owners manual lists dexron VI as correct fluid. I could buy allison Transynd fluid but at $50 a gallon it seems like a waste since I am only going to get maybe half the factory fill out.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Meets GM minimum standards and likely a semi syn or full synthetic ... another time it is hard to prove "better" ...
Just another cog in marketing. In this case DEX VI is labeled "synthetic blend" because it is a blend of group III/IV and V base oils.
Meets GM minimum standards and likely a semi syn or full synthetic ... another time it is hard to prove "better" ...
Just another cog in marketing. In this case DEX VI is labeled "synthetic blend" because it is a blend of group III/IV and V base oils.
dnewton3
Staff member
The OPs question is "So is it all equal"? (referring to the two brands he mentioned, but fairly expanded to the overall market of DEX VI).
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The OPs question is "So is it all equal"? (referring to the two brands he mentioned, but fairly expanded to the overall market of DEX VI).
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
So, I should be ok with a store brand? Cheapest thing on the shelf?
The OPs question is "So is it all equal"? (referring to the two brands he mentioned, but fairly expanded to the overall market of DEX VI).
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
So, I should be ok with a store brand? Cheapest thing on the shelf?
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: RichardS
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
I appreciate the clarification as well.
Originally Posted By: RichardS
Presuming it's licensed by GM, which as far as I've seen havoline is, it's good to go! The only difference I've found in my recent hunting to service the Buick, the only differences are either syn blend or full syn.
Nope they're all syn blend primarily group 3, but since oil companies are allowed to call group 3 synthetic the marketing team ran away with it and said full synthetic on some bottles.
They have to buy their base oils from a limited supplier list so you may get a different brand base oil but all have to fall within the same performance range and the additive package is identical in all licensed DexronVI which means they are essentially identical in final performance even though they didn't use the same exact base oil in every bottle.
I appreciate the clarification as well.
just go to the dealer and buy the correct Dex 6. it's only $6 a quart.
Originally Posted By: Aerojoe
Originally Posted By: nthach
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
Gm owners manual lists dexron VI as correct fluid. I could buy allison Transynd fluid but at $50 a gallon it seems like a waste since I am only going to get maybe half the factory fill out.
That's true - even though Allison has approved Mobil and a few others, it's hard to find it outside of a truck stop or a lube jobber - the biggest benefit of the TranSynd will be longer drains.
Any major brand Dex VI should work. MaxLife isn't an officially approved Dex VI fluid, but Valvoline/Pennzoil do have GM-licensed Dex VI that's synthetic. But all Dex VI/Mercon LV fluid must be licensed by GM/Ford via PQIA and the add packs are from either Afton or Lubrizol.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Why not run the proper Allison-speced fluid instead? Dex VI is more suited towards lighter things.
Gm owners manual lists dexron VI as correct fluid. I could buy allison Transynd fluid but at $50 a gallon it seems like a waste since I am only going to get maybe half the factory fill out.
That's true - even though Allison has approved Mobil and a few others, it's hard to find it outside of a truck stop or a lube jobber - the biggest benefit of the TranSynd will be longer drains.
Any major brand Dex VI should work. MaxLife isn't an officially approved Dex VI fluid, but Valvoline/Pennzoil do have GM-licensed Dex VI that's synthetic. But all Dex VI/Mercon LV fluid must be licensed by GM/Ford via PQIA and the add packs are from either Afton or Lubrizol.
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dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: pacc
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The OPs question is "So is it all equal"? (referring to the two brands he mentioned, but fairly expanded to the overall market of DEX VI).
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
So, I should be ok with a store brand? Cheapest thing on the shelf?
Your question is a bit vague, so I'll elaborate based on two choices
DEX VI: yes - any store brand or name brand that carries the official GM license will assure it's a good fluid. I suppose that there would be some possibility that a higher grade base stock may be available in one brand or another, but frankly you'll never know the difference in terms of wear control. And I truly mean never, ever know the difference. So might as well choose a DEX VI based on cost. Here I suspect that the ST from W/M will be about as low cost as you'll find a licensed product, unless you have a coupon or some other BOGO option.
Not DEX VI: You'll still be OK with a decent recognizable store brand ATF like some of the Dex/Merc options out there. Now, if your vehicle calls for DEX VI and you're still under warranty, then you may not want to venture off the reservation to a non-DEX-VI option. Here, maybe only stick with the VI if warranty is of concern. But in terms of wear rates, the Alli 1000 really shows no preference whatsoever in terms of wear for any brand or base stock. It just wears well. You will, however, get longer OCIs out of using a syn base stock. But you'd be surprised how long even a dino ATF can last.
I would caution about the "cheapest thing on the shelf" mentality. I am a BIG fan of getting a good ROI, and there are many inexpensive fluids out there that do an excellent job. But don't misunderstand my point about savings. "Cheap" can imply a use of sub-standard fluids. For example, there are many lubes on the PQIA that don't meet API specs; those are not "cheap", but they are "costly" in that they will ruin your equipment in short order. The PQIA issues "alerts" for those substandard fluids. But I don't recall ever seeing a recognizable house brand ever in alert status. Places like WalMart, AAP, AZ, Napa, etc still source decent lubes from independent refiners/blenders for the savings, but they still generally hit the mark in terms of product segment they target.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The OPs question is "So is it all equal"? (referring to the two brands he mentioned, but fairly expanded to the overall market of DEX VI).
That's a bit hard to tell; no one has ever run a large trial to determine that, AFAIK. But, I have the next best thing; I do have about 200 UOAs on the Alli 1000 transmission. I can tell you with total certainty that all the DEX VI fluids do extremely well in wear-protection in this tranny. I have seen no evidence whatsoever to show that a brand-name DEX VI is superior in any manner to a house brand DEX VI. In fact, the real data shows that the Alli 1000 transmission is very low-wearing overall, and really does well with about any decent ATF (DEX III, TES-295, Clones, DEX VI ... it just does not matter). Just like the Dmax engine is fantastically low-wearing, and has no penchant for any brand/grade of lube, so also goes the Allison 1000 series.
Why not walk into Walmart and get their ST branded DEX VI? By far the cheapest and easiest to get; hard to beat that price and availability. And before you bash it as a cheap lube, just realize that it IS licensed to the same standard as all the other GM-approved products, including the two the OP mentioned.
But hey, why let facts and data based on real-world wear analysis get in the way of good ol' fashioned brand bigotry and internet mythology?
So, I should be ok with a store brand? Cheapest thing on the shelf?
Your question is a bit vague, so I'll elaborate based on two choices
DEX VI: yes - any store brand or name brand that carries the official GM license will assure it's a good fluid. I suppose that there would be some possibility that a higher grade base stock may be available in one brand or another, but frankly you'll never know the difference in terms of wear control. And I truly mean never, ever know the difference. So might as well choose a DEX VI based on cost. Here I suspect that the ST from W/M will be about as low cost as you'll find a licensed product, unless you have a coupon or some other BOGO option.
Not DEX VI: You'll still be OK with a decent recognizable store brand ATF like some of the Dex/Merc options out there. Now, if your vehicle calls for DEX VI and you're still under warranty, then you may not want to venture off the reservation to a non-DEX-VI option. Here, maybe only stick with the VI if warranty is of concern. But in terms of wear rates, the Alli 1000 really shows no preference whatsoever in terms of wear for any brand or base stock. It just wears well. You will, however, get longer OCIs out of using a syn base stock. But you'd be surprised how long even a dino ATF can last.
I would caution about the "cheapest thing on the shelf" mentality. I am a BIG fan of getting a good ROI, and there are many inexpensive fluids out there that do an excellent job. But don't misunderstand my point about savings. "Cheap" can imply a use of sub-standard fluids. For example, there are many lubes on the PQIA that don't meet API specs; those are not "cheap", but they are "costly" in that they will ruin your equipment in short order. The PQIA issues "alerts" for those substandard fluids. But I don't recall ever seeing a recognizable house brand ever in alert status. Places like WalMart, AAP, AZ, Napa, etc still source decent lubes from independent refiners/blenders for the savings, but they still generally hit the mark in terms of product segment they target.
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Just to address a comment from earlier about SuperTech: the dexron6 bottles at my local Walmart specifically say "this is not a licensed product."
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