Interest in proposed 160-seat CSeries gathers pace

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Interest in proposed 160-seat CSeries gathers pace with budget carriers

By: Max Kingsley-Jones London

04:01 27 Sep 2012

Source: AWIN


"Bombardier's proposed assault on the low-cost market with a high-density configured CSeries is gaining momentum as the variant emerges as a genuine contender against the Airbus and Boeing re-engined single-aisles in several budget carrier evaluations.

The 160-seat version of the larger of the two CSeries variants, the CS300 broke cover in July when it emerged that it had been proposed to AirAsia. It is now also known to be under evaluation by Vueling, Flydubai and EasyJet.

Spanish low-fare carrier Vueling had been running an evaluation of the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 families, but widened the appraisal to consider the CSeries after the emergence of an offer of the 160-seat version, says chief executive Alex Cruz. He adds that "a CS300 with 160 seats...could suit" Vueling. "We were not expecting to have a long conversation with Bombardier but they responded well," he says.

EasyJet has been examining the CSeries as part of an evaluation for expansion and replacement of its 156-seat A319s in a competition that includes the A320neo and 737 Max. Like Vueling, it is believed to be close to finalising its selection. It would look at the CS300 variant with a minimum of 150 seats.

The CS300 is notionally a 130-145 seater, but Bombardier says that "with slim seats that allow for a 28in pitch, the CS300 airframe has the flexibility of accommodating 160 seats".
It adds that the "potential configuration" has been presented to customers to gauge interest. "A decision however to proceed with such a variant remains under consideration and will be dictated by customer demand," says Bombardier.

Bombardier declines to provide specific operating cost comparisons between the 160-seat CS300 and its Airbus and Boeing rivals. However, it told Flight International that the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G-powered CS300 has a 20% lower cost per seat over the current-generation CFM International CFM56-powered A319 and an 18% cost-per-trip advantage over the larger A320neo for the same cost per seat.

Industry sources say that the 160-seat version is a genuine threat in a head-to-head competition against a high-density A319neo and 737 Max 7. As well as having a weight advantage over its heavier mainline rivals, the 160-seat CS300 also offers additional passenger capacity over both. In a high-density arrangement the A319neo will seat a maximum of 156 passengers and 737 Max 7 149 passengers."

Additional reporting by Alex Thomas and Olivier Bonnassies
 
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It's an interesting aircraft in that it hopes to fulfill such a narrow market niche. I'm surprised that Bombardier sees this as profitable enough to move forward. I can assume though that having a large portion of the fuselage made in China at Shenyang Aircraft, much money will be saved.
 
I am surprized this type of proposal has not started earlier. I can envision this type of aircraft, and smaller with remote pilots flying people to and fro from a remote pilots room. California is moving to some no driver cars, and eventually aircraft will move in the same direction. Thats if BOAT USA does not sink in November
whistle.gif
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
I am surprized this type of proposal has not started earlier. I can envision this type of aircraft, and smaller with remote pilots flying people to and fro from a remote pilots room. California is moving to some no driver cars, and eventually aircraft will move in the same direction. Thats if BOAT USA does not sink in November
whistle.gif



Remote piloted commercial aircraft?? Where did that come from? No way. Are you kidding? If so...you've lost me. I'd never want to fly on an aircraft with no physical pilot. Wow.
 
If this aircraft really does deliver on CASM versus the re-engined single aisles from B and A, it does have potential.
If it were adopted by a US carrier, it would have no more than 150 seats, since an additional ten seats would not likely justify the cost of an additional FA.
Canadair is desperate to get some interest in the CSeries, and I wish them well.
Embraer has not done too well with its baby 737 twins.
It would be a boring world with only Airbus and Boeing aircraft to fly on.
A little diversity is always welcome.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
If this aircraft really does deliver on CASM versus the re-engined single aisles from B and A, it does have potential.
If it were adopted by a US carrier, it would have no more than 150 seats, since an additional ten seats would not likely justify the cost of an additional FA.
Canadair is desperate to get some interest in the CSeries, and I wish them well.
Embraer has not done too well with its baby 737 twins.
It would be a boring world with only Airbus and Boeing aircraft to fly on.
A little diversity is always welcome.


No it wouldn't....being a Boeing employee I would be quite satisfied with ALL Boeing planes! Lol. Besides...it doesn't exactly look any more exciting to fly on than a 737 or an A320. But hey, bring it on. Might be a good addition. I just wish the Chinese weren't so involved.(Even though my own company is vigorously working with the Chinese and has many aircraft parts manufactured by them).
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
I am surprized this type of proposal has not started earlier.


The 28" seat pitch is a deal killer for the mainlines. All the majors know that the minimum is 31" if you want to see that customer again. As the general population is getting more obese, that 31" pitch is looking smaller and smaller everyday. Why do you think it was introduced to AirAsia?
 
Yeah but if this thing were used for American market mainline, it would have no more than 150 seats, so pitch would probably be more like 31".
 
Based on my read of September 24th's issue of AW&ST, they have to go with the 28-inch seat pitch to be able to add the additional eleven seats; no stretch is planned of the current design. And they give up at least one lavatory to add those eleven seats.

Any "interest" by major carriers aside from Vueling is more likely a ploy to get better pricing and/or financing from Airbus or Boeing.

More interestingly, the same article alluded to the Canadian government courting Vueling with a financing offer that makes the CS300 look very attractive to them.
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
I am surprized this type of proposal has not started earlier. I can envision this type of aircraft, and smaller with remote pilots flying people to and fro from a remote pilots room. California is moving to some no driver cars, and eventually aircraft will move in the same direction. Thats if BOAT USA does not sink in November
whistle.gif

All California did was authorize the TESTING of computer controlled cars. It's a long way from THAT to sitting in the seat with your thumb up your nose while a computer figures out what the woman in the SUV next to you will do next. ANd why would one put the pilot in a "remote room" when he/she us still needed to fly the airplane? Doesn't that INCREASE the cost?
 
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