Is that the official "smoosh" test?
Im done hearing that fram sucks!
- Thread starter ryland
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That's what a good FRAM-O-Death disserves!!! allot of time the center tube isn't even centered over the nice paper end caps and easily can be pulled out.
good job ekpolk keep up the good work!!
good job ekpolk keep up the good work!!
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Is that the official "smoosh" test?
Yes! Oddly enough, however, I've been having trouble finding the SAE specs for this procedure.
Is that the official "smoosh" test?
Yes! Oddly enough, however, I've been having trouble finding the SAE specs for this procedure.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
That's hilarious... I was just being funny! Maybe we should use Orange-Cans as stress-balls and nothing else!
That would be a great idea but for one thing. The sheet metal Fram uses is so thin that, even on its lightest tension, my pipe cutter collapses it like a ball of cheap foil. It's the only can that so far, I've been unable to open cleanly. Notice in my "three filters" picture above that the Fram can is missing. I had cut that filter a couple days before (the three filter picture is from several years ago), and the can was reduced to a bunch of razor sharp, haphazard steel ribbons. Not wanting to cut myself into a heap of human sushi, I jettisoned the ribbons before I decided to do the "comparo" photo.
But yeah, if you can safely extract the innards, such as they are, the Fram element would make a nice stress ball (except for the fact that it doesn't bounce back from the squeeze!
That would be a great idea but for one thing. The sheet metal Fram uses is so thin that, even on its lightest tension, my pipe cutter collapses it like a ball of cheap foil. It's the only can that so far, I've been unable to open cleanly. Notice in my "three filters" picture above that the Fram can is missing. I had cut that filter a couple days before (the three filter picture is from several years ago), and the can was reduced to a bunch of razor sharp, haphazard steel ribbons. Not wanting to cut myself into a heap of human sushi, I jettisoned the ribbons before I decided to do the "comparo" photo.
But yeah, if you can safely extract the innards, such as they are, the Fram element would make a nice stress ball (except for the fact that it doesn't bounce back from the squeeze!
I have a Fram PH-16 to cut open for everyone here that came off the heavily varnished engine in the other thread I posted. I want to see what it looks like inside.
I always cut them open with a pneumatic cutting wheel or chain pipe cutters.
Good to know the walls are super thin... (Cost cutting no doubt)
Will be interesting to see how it held up at 10K KM (6K Mile) OCI's with bottom basic Dino oil.
I always cut them open with a pneumatic cutting wheel or chain pipe cutters.
Good to know the walls are super thin... (Cost cutting no doubt)
Will be interesting to see how it held up at 10K KM (6K Mile) OCI's with bottom basic Dino oil.
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Bends steel in his bare hands
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
*HULK* "I said Greeeeeeeeen"
Strangely enough, that settles it for me. I won't ever use a Fram. I had considered it for a beater or maybe a lawnmower if I found them on clearance, but no more. I bet the E-Core wouldn't do so well either, but it might be more resilient due to the metal caps.
The smoosh test should be done as a part of all future unused filter dissections.
The smoosh test should be done as a part of all future unused filter dissections.
I'm not trying to bash, but I can tell you from personal and financial loss, Fram is a terrible choice.
Personal -> lost of sleep, hypertension, faith, trust
financial -> motor oil, filter;(perhaps engine damage)
I used Fram for years, until I purchased a 02, Dodge, 5.9. I replaced the factory OE filter with Fram. Yeah, I loved the black grippy thingy too! Wow, it was the bee's knees back when it was first introduced, even my dad swore by it, but also, maybe at that time the contents weren't so cheaply made, and the casing was actually thicker. Nevertheless, after installing on my Dodge, with 3,200 miles, I drove it another 1,000 miles, and noticed oil leaking from the filter area. I did some further inspection, and the Canister was actually separating from the base plate!
Talk about completely ticked! I had to quickly get another filter, aptly a O.E filter, and replaced it. Now in all this time I'm fumming, I'm looking for a phone number or something to contact Fram, Guess what? Nothing on the filter package. Looked on the website, couldn't find one. Searched for a few days but finally got a number, that Didn't work! I finally gave up, as seeing it was a total failure trying to contact them and ask why this had happened...I simply swore that I would never run another Fram filter in my life, and would try to keep anyone from ever using one, to hopefully push for better quality filters from them in the future.
I eventaully settled on motorcraft FL-1A. same thread and much sturdier, and even cost a few cents or so less than the "Orange Can of Death".
I know somewhere, either here on this Forum, or on the Internet, you can actually find a Fram and many other filters cut down to their basic parts, and you will see the difference you are paying for. I'm not saying MC is better, but it's all I ever use on my Hemi, but it's also made by either Purolator or Wix, either of which are good filters, Baldwins, etc. If you can access STP or AC/Delco, go for it and stop wasting money on Fram.
Yeah, The Dirt Stops here, but where does all the Penny-pinching leave you on Material grade and customer loyalty. Terrible thing is that like one person said, somewhere between half and 3 quarters of a parking lot are gonna have a Fram.
Also like snake oil, why does Fram offer 4 different type oil fiters? That should be viable sense enough to let you onto the hype we read about when comparing. Who needs "ExtraGuard", "Toughgaurd", "XtendedGuard", or "HighMileage,w/TRT"? Come'on, this is just the common "snake oil" gimmick applied to an oil filter.
I was just looking at the Motocraft website and filters lookup and I remember at one time, may have been 10 to 15 years ago, there was a supposedly a HD-Severe duty FL-1A, that you could at one time cross-reference, but it's not even available anymore, even up to F-superDuty 460, 7.5L, it's still a MC FL-1A oil filter. They dont' have 4 differnet filters to chose from...Anyone understand where this headed, maybe this could end the dreaded "snake oil" analogy to 4-differnet types of oil filters for one given part number all by the same manufactuer.
I'm unsure how this may apply to GM or Chrysler, but I cannot find anything for 2 or 3 different oil filters for the same engine size and year, except for FRAM.
I don't mean to bash and not trying to act like a know-it all, but with common sense, anyone can see it as I do and many others. Just stick with a well-made filter, an "entity", you could call, or run up to a dealership to discuss the malfuction of the part, i.e, Mopar oil filter-chrysler dealership, Motorcraft-ford Dealership, and the list goes on. At least you have a better chance of getting an answer to the damage or malfuction, unlike you would with something like Fram.
But Murphy's Law applies to all things. Just like with Ford's trunk key could hundreds of over trucks from one single key, or the ignition switch for chevrolet, the cost .75 cents and caught fire on numerous occasions until the massive recall was announced and it could have all been solved with a part that $1.35.
Got a little off-topic at the end, but what I'm saying is that, Get past all those CAPITALIZED LETTERS on packaging, and fancy grippy things. Heck, don't forget, Fram was the 1st to use TEFLON, suspended in the media to help coat engine surfaces!! Ooops, Dupont made sure that everyone knew that teflon is not meant to be used in an internal combustible engine, something about damaging, shearing, scorching was a few thigns I heard, and that leads right into.....-> You guessed it Slick50, oops, Dupont once again, Teflon bad for Internal combustible Engine, yet, you could run with no oil!!!
MORE OF THOSE CAPITALIZED LETTERS TO EXCITE US!!!
Thanks for looking and hop everyone didn't fall asleep before the end!
IMO-I would never trust a Fram filter and after showing friends of mine, a Fram cut-open, they haven't used one since, going strong since 2002!
Personal -> lost of sleep, hypertension, faith, trust
financial -> motor oil, filter;(perhaps engine damage)
I used Fram for years, until I purchased a 02, Dodge, 5.9. I replaced the factory OE filter with Fram. Yeah, I loved the black grippy thingy too! Wow, it was the bee's knees back when it was first introduced, even my dad swore by it, but also, maybe at that time the contents weren't so cheaply made, and the casing was actually thicker. Nevertheless, after installing on my Dodge, with 3,200 miles, I drove it another 1,000 miles, and noticed oil leaking from the filter area. I did some further inspection, and the Canister was actually separating from the base plate!
Talk about completely ticked! I had to quickly get another filter, aptly a O.E filter, and replaced it. Now in all this time I'm fumming, I'm looking for a phone number or something to contact Fram, Guess what? Nothing on the filter package. Looked on the website, couldn't find one. Searched for a few days but finally got a number, that Didn't work! I finally gave up, as seeing it was a total failure trying to contact them and ask why this had happened...I simply swore that I would never run another Fram filter in my life, and would try to keep anyone from ever using one, to hopefully push for better quality filters from them in the future.
I eventaully settled on motorcraft FL-1A. same thread and much sturdier, and even cost a few cents or so less than the "Orange Can of Death".
I know somewhere, either here on this Forum, or on the Internet, you can actually find a Fram and many other filters cut down to their basic parts, and you will see the difference you are paying for. I'm not saying MC is better, but it's all I ever use on my Hemi, but it's also made by either Purolator or Wix, either of which are good filters, Baldwins, etc. If you can access STP or AC/Delco, go for it and stop wasting money on Fram.
Yeah, The Dirt Stops here, but where does all the Penny-pinching leave you on Material grade and customer loyalty. Terrible thing is that like one person said, somewhere between half and 3 quarters of a parking lot are gonna have a Fram.
Also like snake oil, why does Fram offer 4 different type oil fiters? That should be viable sense enough to let you onto the hype we read about when comparing. Who needs "ExtraGuard", "Toughgaurd", "XtendedGuard", or "HighMileage,w/TRT"? Come'on, this is just the common "snake oil" gimmick applied to an oil filter.
I was just looking at the Motocraft website and filters lookup and I remember at one time, may have been 10 to 15 years ago, there was a supposedly a HD-Severe duty FL-1A, that you could at one time cross-reference, but it's not even available anymore, even up to F-superDuty 460, 7.5L, it's still a MC FL-1A oil filter. They dont' have 4 differnet filters to chose from...Anyone understand where this headed, maybe this could end the dreaded "snake oil" analogy to 4-differnet types of oil filters for one given part number all by the same manufactuer.
I'm unsure how this may apply to GM or Chrysler, but I cannot find anything for 2 or 3 different oil filters for the same engine size and year, except for FRAM.
I don't mean to bash and not trying to act like a know-it all, but with common sense, anyone can see it as I do and many others. Just stick with a well-made filter, an "entity", you could call, or run up to a dealership to discuss the malfuction of the part, i.e, Mopar oil filter-chrysler dealership, Motorcraft-ford Dealership, and the list goes on. At least you have a better chance of getting an answer to the damage or malfuction, unlike you would with something like Fram.
But Murphy's Law applies to all things. Just like with Ford's trunk key could hundreds of over trucks from one single key, or the ignition switch for chevrolet, the cost .75 cents and caught fire on numerous occasions until the massive recall was announced and it could have all been solved with a part that $1.35.
Got a little off-topic at the end, but what I'm saying is that, Get past all those CAPITALIZED LETTERS on packaging, and fancy grippy things. Heck, don't forget, Fram was the 1st to use TEFLON, suspended in the media to help coat engine surfaces!! Ooops, Dupont made sure that everyone knew that teflon is not meant to be used in an internal combustible engine, something about damaging, shearing, scorching was a few thigns I heard, and that leads right into.....-> You guessed it Slick50, oops, Dupont once again, Teflon bad for Internal combustible Engine, yet, you could run with no oil!!!
MORE OF THOSE CAPITALIZED LETTERS TO EXCITE US!!!
Thanks for looking and hop everyone didn't fall asleep before the end!
IMO-I would never trust a Fram filter and after showing friends of mine, a Fram cut-open, they haven't used one since, going strong since 2002!
Once again, not to be overly dramatic, but consider the ejection seat analogy I made earlier in this thread. Thankfully, after almost a decade flying jets in the Marines, I never had to yank the handle. But I knew that Martin-Baker, the English maker of amazing escape systems, had given us the very best product possible. If I'd ever had to pull the handle, I would not have worried about the quality of the device upon which I was sitting (rather, I'd have been worrying about the situation I'd gotten myself into...).
So, if things in your engine are "going south," what would you rather have protecting you -- the cheapest-made filter that the maker can get by with selling, or one with a good, healthy margin engineered into it???? Especially when the better one costs the same or less than the cheap minimum design?
So, if things in your engine are "going south," what would you rather have protecting you -- the cheapest-made filter that the maker can get by with selling, or one with a good, healthy margin engineered into it???? Especially when the better one costs the same or less than the cheap minimum design?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Bends steel in his bare hands
. . .
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
Gary:
Thank you for the unreasonably kind words -- but let's not forget that this is very very thin steel. . .
Bends steel in his bare hands
. . .
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
Gary:
Thank you for the unreasonably kind words -- but let's not forget that this is very very thin steel. . .
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- Sep 28, 2002
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Yeah. Straight seam center tubes flatten easy enough. The spiral wound tubes are much harder to crush.
Quote:
I bet the E-Core wouldn't do so well either, but it might be more resilient due to the metal caps.
No metal inside the E-Core. The composite cage is much stronger than it's metal counterpart. If you do manage to reach the threshold of breaking them, they might disintegrate ..but that takes some really narrow and unique conditions to even occur.
Quote:
I bet the E-Core wouldn't do so well either, but it might be more resilient due to the metal caps.
No metal inside the E-Core. The composite cage is much stronger than it's metal counterpart. If you do manage to reach the threshold of breaking them, they might disintegrate ..but that takes some really narrow and unique conditions to even occur.
No Fram oil filter will be allowed in my garage EVER
Originally Posted By: ryland
That dosent make sense that it would collapse internaly. They have the same metal center tube as any other filter. Also if fram is supposed to have less pleats and filter media and be prone to leeks due to their cardboard endcaps, you would think that more oil would flow not less. If it dosent filter the oil very well like everyone says than the flow would have to be higher. Either it filters too well and reduces flow or it dosent filter and increases flow IMO it cant reduce flow and not filter as well.
I know you're convinced, but for the others, here is a link to a similar problem: Look ma - no hands!
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=133446
That dosent make sense that it would collapse internaly. They have the same metal center tube as any other filter. Also if fram is supposed to have less pleats and filter media and be prone to leeks due to their cardboard endcaps, you would think that more oil would flow not less. If it dosent filter the oil very well like everyone says than the flow would have to be higher. Either it filters too well and reduces flow or it dosent filter and increases flow IMO it cant reduce flow and not filter as well.
I know you're convinced, but for the others, here is a link to a similar problem: Look ma - no hands!
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=133446
Originally Posted By: DragRace
No Fram oil filter will be allowed in my garage EVER
No Fram oil filter will be allowed in my garage EVER
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Bends steel in his bare hands
. . .
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
I guess I should add two things:
1) I'm a Marine -- we do things like that.
2) That's my left hand -- and I'm right-handed.
Bends steel in his bare hands
. . .
Ooooh. El Hombre Súper!!
I guess I should add two things:
1) I'm a Marine -- we do things like that.
2) That's my left hand -- and I'm right-handed.
The Fram Tough Guard is a very good filter. I have taken used filters apart and I don't have a problem with the cardboard end caps. Have a look at the media comparisons below:
Fram Extra Guard PH5
ADBV material: Nitrile
Filter area: 183 sq/in
Average pore size: 32.5 µm
Smallest pore size: 14 µm
WIX 51086
Filter area: 185 sq/in
ADBV material: Silicon
Average pore size: 35 µm
Smallest pore size: 16 µm
Fram Tough Guard TG5
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 274 sq/in
Average pore size: 26 µm
Smallest pore size: 12 µm
Purolator PureOne PL34631
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 330 sq/in
Average pore size: 24 µm
Smallest pore size: 11 µm
Fram Toughguard TG3593A 99% Multipass Efficiency at 20 microns
Amsoil 98.7% Multipass Efficiency at 15 microns
WIX 51334 50% multipass efficiency at 22 microns and 95% multipass efficiency at 40 microns
Fram Extra Guard PH5
ADBV material: Nitrile
Filter area: 183 sq/in
Average pore size: 32.5 µm
Smallest pore size: 14 µm
WIX 51086
Filter area: 185 sq/in
ADBV material: Silicon
Average pore size: 35 µm
Smallest pore size: 16 µm
Fram Tough Guard TG5
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 274 sq/in
Average pore size: 26 µm
Smallest pore size: 12 µm
Purolator PureOne PL34631
ADBV material: Silicon
Filter area: 330 sq/in
Average pore size: 24 µm
Smallest pore size: 11 µm
Fram Toughguard TG3593A 99% Multipass Efficiency at 20 microns
Amsoil 98.7% Multipass Efficiency at 15 microns
WIX 51334 50% multipass efficiency at 22 microns and 95% multipass efficiency at 40 microns
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Where are you pulling your figures from? Grease's filter study showed Fram to have the widest pore variance of all the filters in the bubble test.
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