If made to choose...
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Once again, the profits belong to the common shareholders who are located worldwide. They don't somehow return to the country of origin of a brand.
You say you worked in the industry so you should be well aware that the suppliers build their factories close to the assembly plants of the integrators who build the cars and put their badges on them.
For every Honda worker in Ohio, there is at least another working in one of the many supplier plants that have grown up to support Honda production in the region.
It takes a serious twist of logic as well as a dim view of commercial reality to contend that a Mexican Ford, a Korean Chevy or a Chinese Buick is somehow a better pick in supporting American workers than is an Ohio built Honda.
Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation.
You say you worked in the industry so you should be well aware that the suppliers build their factories close to the assembly plants of the integrators who build the cars and put their badges on them.
For every Honda worker in Ohio, there is at least another working in one of the many supplier plants that have grown up to support Honda production in the region.
It takes a serious twist of logic as well as a dim view of commercial reality to contend that a Mexican Ford, a Korean Chevy or a Chinese Buick is somehow a better pick in supporting American workers than is an Ohio built Honda.
Sorry, but that's the reality of the situation.
When I say benefit America, I don’t mean in terms of the number of jobs. You can create as many jobs as you want, but what is the pay of those jobs? When Toyota has 60 billion dollars in cash reserves, how does that benefit the American workforce? I think buying a domestic badge car ultimately keeps more money in the states. That is my belief. Buying a foreign car does keep money in the states, but a larger portion goes overseas.Tthat is my point. And you don’t need to insinuate that I am Dim or twisting anything ok? I am willing to learn if you have facts to show I am wrong.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/12/autos/most_american_car/index.htm?section=money_topstories
http://www.americanautocouncil.org/job-creation
http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/12/autos/most_american_car/index.htm?section=money_topstories
http://www.americanautocouncil.org/job-creation
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Interesting thoughts you have brought up here. I agree with the last sentence in this post. Domestic label and domestic made do keep the most money here in the US. East Penn is a good example of this. Has for buying a Ford label made south of the border... I will pass. Gladly. They sent all the jobs over there to "save" money for the all important shareholders and CEOs plus CFOs. Wonder why Bernie's message sounds so good to so many people here?? This foolish practice has made that totally possible.
Last I looked, the Camry was the American built car. Assembled in the US with the most US sourced (70+%?) parts. I personally think the car leaves something to be desired, but it is what it is. The new ones don't look bad, but I think they need to make an AWD and/ or TRD version. Subaru, Ford and now Kia make fast 4 doors.
I used to really dislike post bail-out GM, but I am starting to like them again. Their 1500 trucks are assembled locally and provide many jobs. Someone in Dearborn would probably prefer an F150 obviously.
None of my car opinions are chiseled in stone though. I'll always like VW/ Audi as well as Japanese built vehicles.
Sad to see that Volvo is now Chinese owned though. Some may be EU built yet, but the money goes to them...
I used to really dislike post bail-out GM, but I am starting to like them again. Their 1500 trucks are assembled locally and provide many jobs. Someone in Dearborn would probably prefer an F150 obviously.
None of my car opinions are chiseled in stone though. I'll always like VW/ Audi as well as Japanese built vehicles.
Sad to see that Volvo is now Chinese owned though. Some may be EU built yet, but the money goes to them...
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Ok, fine. I was not considering the flow of profits, because I wasn’t aware of ADRs as described in Edmunds. But when the sheer number of jobs that the domestic three is 2/3 of all American automotive workers, vs 16 other automakers, I think there are 2 different categories of who’s benefiting. Shareholders vs Laborers. Maybe the profit argument doesn’t hold water, but more American salaries/jobs are supported by domestic badge purchases. That’s based on the reading of the previous article I posted, and this one down here. I don’t mind people buying foreign, but I want to see numbers backing up the patriotism of buying foreign. And if there aren’t any numbers, how can we be so confident in our theories?
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/foreign-cars-made-in-america-where-does-the-money-go.html
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Ok, fine. I was not considering the flow of profits, because I wasn’t aware of ADRs as described in Edmunds. But when the sheer number of jobs that the domestic three is 2/3 of all American automotive workers, vs 16 other automakers, I think there are 2 different categories of who’s benefiting. Shareholders vs Laborers. Maybe the profit argument doesn’t hold water, but more American salaries/jobs are supported by domestic badge purchases. That’s based on the reading of the previous article I posted, and this one down here. I don’t mind people buying foreign, but I want to see numbers backing up the patriotism of buying foreign. And if there aren’t any numbers, how can we be so confident in our theories?
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/foreign-cars-made-in-america-where-does-the-money-go.html
I'd prefer to buy from corporations that employ Americans and make a quality product. Honda small engines come to mind since they make excellent engines and have a plant here in the US that employs Americans. Same thing with Wix filters. Excellent quality filters and as a bonus many are made in the USA, so to me it is worth paying a few bucks more for one over something else that might be made elsewhere.
If you buy from a company such as GM, it seems most of the profits go straight to the CEO getting a larger helicopter. I don't own any Honda cars, but it seems their idea of building factories in the US to produce cars here as well as employ Americans who can buy those cars makes sense. If GM gets more profits it probably results in them building more factories in Mexico or China so they can increase profits even more. I think that has more to do with the American business mentality than GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc, necessarily.
I think a lot of this has to do with advertising and heritage. I hear people saying "I only buy _____ brand because they are American". Well all the ads tell viewers the product is American, so that might influence their purchasing decision, even though a Chevy might not be any more American than a Honda or Toyota. Same thing with European cars. I hear a lot of "I only buy BMW, VW, Audi, etc, because Germans have superior build quality" even though many VW products are made in Mexico and BMW has a plant in South Africa.
If you buy from a company such as GM, it seems most of the profits go straight to the CEO getting a larger helicopter. I don't own any Honda cars, but it seems their idea of building factories in the US to produce cars here as well as employ Americans who can buy those cars makes sense. If GM gets more profits it probably results in them building more factories in Mexico or China so they can increase profits even more. I think that has more to do with the American business mentality than GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc, necessarily.
I think a lot of this has to do with advertising and heritage. I hear people saying "I only buy _____ brand because they are American". Well all the ads tell viewers the product is American, so that might influence their purchasing decision, even though a Chevy might not be any more American than a Honda or Toyota. Same thing with European cars. I hear a lot of "I only buy BMW, VW, Audi, etc, because Germans have superior build quality" even though many VW products are made in Mexico and BMW has a plant in South Africa.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Try living off of theses profits when you loose a job and your whole industry gets outsourced. Dividends and stock prices don't put bread on the table. So perhaps your understanding needs a bit of fine tuning.
Fact is that countries that produce also experience growth and countries that shrink their production experience economic stagnation or decline. Why do you think China is investing so heavily in its own industry and expertise? If what you say were true, they would've been perfectly fine with making trinkets for western owned corporations and just buy a bunch of stocks live off of dividends.
The relocation of wealth is real and it's moving from NA and Europe and into Asia. That's your global economy.
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Try living off of theses profits when you loose a job and your whole industry gets outsourced. Dividends and stock prices don't put bread on the table. So perhaps your understanding needs a bit of fine tuning.
Fact is that countries that produce also experience growth and countries that shrink their production experience economic stagnation or decline. Why do you think China is investing so heavily in its own industry and expertise? If what you say were true, they would've been perfectly fine with making trinkets for western owned corporations and just buy a bunch of stocks live off of dividends.
The relocation of wealth is real and it's moving from NA and Europe and into Asia. That's your global economy.
Originally Posted By: Kurtatron
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Ok, fine. I was not considering the flow of profits, because I wasn’t aware of ADRs as described in Edmunds. But when the sheer number of jobs that the domestic three is 2/3 of all American automotive workers, vs 16 other automakers, I think there are 2 different categories of who’s benefiting. Shareholders vs Laborers. Maybe the profit argument doesn’t hold water, but more American salaries/jobs are supported by domestic badge purchases. That’s based on the reading of the previous article I posted, and this one down here. I don’t mind people buying foreign, but I want to see numbers backing up the patriotism of buying foreign. And if there aren’t any numbers, how can we be so confident in our theories?
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/foreign-cars-made-in-america-where-does-the-money-go.html
I wonder how much of this is real and how much of it derives from the old UAW/Big Three mantra of years ago?
The slogan was "Sell here, Build here" and when the Japanese began doing just that, a new slogan was needed, and it consisted of something to the effect that the profits go overseas.
What is or isn't American is also a bit contentious. Is an Italian owned old US nameplate American?
Is a German-engineered and Mexican built Ford American? Is a Korean built Chevy badged car American?
The rise of the Asian automobile industry was enabled more by serious gaps in the product offerings of the then Big Three than it was by any lack of quality in those offerings.
Once any company gets behind in any segment, it becomes very difficult for them to catch up in the market.
These old American makers have responded by concentrating on the truck/SUV/CUV segment and have survived and even prospered in so doing in an era of cheap fuel.
Cheap fuel cannot last forever and when we see sustained increases in fuel prices, these three old guard companies will again be circling the drain.
There are some real forward looking cars from both GM and Ford, but they haven't shown well in sales figures and were it not for the pickups, neither Ford nor GM would be alive now.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Ok, fine. I was not considering the flow of profits, because I wasn’t aware of ADRs as described in Edmunds. But when the sheer number of jobs that the domestic three is 2/3 of all American automotive workers, vs 16 other automakers, I think there are 2 different categories of who’s benefiting. Shareholders vs Laborers. Maybe the profit argument doesn’t hold water, but more American salaries/jobs are supported by domestic badge purchases. That’s based on the reading of the previous article I posted, and this one down here. I don’t mind people buying foreign, but I want to see numbers backing up the patriotism of buying foreign. And if there aren’t any numbers, how can we be so confident in our theories?
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/foreign-cars-made-in-america-where-does-the-money-go.html
I wonder how much of this is real and how much of it derives from the old UAW/Big Three mantra of years ago?
The slogan was "Sell here, Build here" and when the Japanese began doing just that, a new slogan was needed, and it consisted of something to the effect that the profits go overseas.
What is or isn't American is also a bit contentious. Is an Italian owned old US nameplate American?
Is a German-engineered and Mexican built Ford American? Is a Korean built Chevy badged car American?
The rise of the Asian automobile industry was enabled more by serious gaps in the product offerings of the then Big Three than it was by any lack of quality in those offerings.
Once any company gets behind in any segment, it becomes very difficult for them to catch up in the market.
These old American makers have responded by concentrating on the truck/SUV/CUV segment and have survived and even prospered in so doing in an era of cheap fuel.
Cheap fuel cannot last forever and when we see sustained increases in fuel prices, these three old guard companies will again be circling the drain.
There are some real forward looking cars from both GM and Ford, but they haven't shown well in sales figures and were it not for the pickups, neither Ford nor GM would be alive now.
We are living in a era change period. If you are a autoworker you surely wouldn’t push your children to be autoworkers, would you? It’s a dying trade. Same goes for many jobs of the last 20-30 years. Now if you are older and losing your job is in the cards then yes it’s a large burden. Hiring people in their 50’s is not a common thing. This is not something that can be solved in a forum.
People in their fifties get hired every day.
The rub lies in what their skill set and resume qualify them for in terms of wages.
An RN will never lack for well compensated work without regard to age while a middle aged factory guy who's experience is limited to lower skilled factory work may find a rude awakening should he have to enter the job market.
Times change and yesterday's great job is today's nightmare.
It may not be fair and it may not be right, but that's just the way things are.
The rub lies in what their skill set and resume qualify them for in terms of wages.
An RN will never lack for well compensated work without regard to age while a middle aged factory guy who's experience is limited to lower skilled factory work may find a rude awakening should he have to enter the job market.
Times change and yesterday's great job is today's nightmare.
It may not be fair and it may not be right, but that's just the way things are.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Try living off of theses profits when you loose a job and your whole industry gets outsourced. Dividends and stock prices don't put bread on the table. So perhaps your understanding needs a bit of fine tuning.
Fact is that countries that produce also experience growth and countries that shrink their production experience economic stagnation or decline. Why do you think China is investing so heavily in its own industry and expertise? If what you say were true, they would've been perfectly fine with making trinkets for western owned corporations and just buy a bunch of stocks live off of dividends.
The relocation of wealth is real and it's moving from NA and Europe and into Asia. That's your global economy.
I am not trying to say buying foreign is better for keeping jobs in North America. I was only responding to the comments..."the profits go back to the home country" argument. The profits go to the shareholders.
Secondly, I am of the mind that I will purchase the best available product I can for my money....no matter where it is built. Why should I purchase from a corporation that pays its upper management as if they are kings? It's absurd. And why should I drive a sub-standard car because it's line workers are unwilling to bend on pay and benefits when the writing was on the wall since the early 1980's that they were clearly un-competitive? It took from 1980 until 2009 to finally kill off GM and nearly killed off Ford. Long term, domestic manufacturers need to compete. If they can't, maybe cars just cannot be designed and built here.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Apparently the majority of people do not understand what being a shareholder means. The profits go to the shareholders....in the form of dividends and increased stock prices. It's a global economy....I can and do own stock in Toyota and Honda and yet I live in the US. So the "profits go back to the home country" argument is specious at best.
Try living off of theses profits when you loose a job and your whole industry gets outsourced. Dividends and stock prices don't put bread on the table. So perhaps your understanding needs a bit of fine tuning.
Fact is that countries that produce also experience growth and countries that shrink their production experience economic stagnation or decline. Why do you think China is investing so heavily in its own industry and expertise? If what you say were true, they would've been perfectly fine with making trinkets for western owned corporations and just buy a bunch of stocks live off of dividends.
The relocation of wealth is real and it's moving from NA and Europe and into Asia. That's your global economy.
I am not trying to say buying foreign is better for keeping jobs in North America. I was only responding to the comments..."the profits go back to the home country" argument. The profits go to the shareholders.
Secondly, I am of the mind that I will purchase the best available product I can for my money....no matter where it is built. Why should I purchase from a corporation that pays its upper management as if they are kings? It's absurd. And why should I drive a sub-standard car because it's line workers are unwilling to bend on pay and benefits when the writing was on the wall since the early 1980's that they were clearly un-competitive? It took from 1980 until 2009 to finally kill off GM and nearly killed off Ford. Long term, domestic manufacturers need to compete. If they can't, maybe cars just cannot be designed and built here.
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