Hybrid vs Gas

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oilhoarder

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I’m in the market for a brand new 2023 RAV4 LE AWD (all of them are AWDs in a 200 miles radius), and I have gotten quotes at MSRP for both. Considering that I work from home (remote) and drive around 7-9k miles a year, with a break even point at around 5 years (attached), which would you pick?

Hybrid: $36,364.00 (out of the door price) reserved for early November arrival.
Brake pads last longer
No starter
10 year warranty on battery

Gas: $34,500.00 (OTD price) in stock.
I like to hold vehicles for at least 10 years.
Suburban driving outside of DC, so will see some I-495 and I-66 traffic.
I don’t commute during the week and primarily drive on the weekends.

Since I drive so little, I feel like I’m not the best candidate for a hybrid, but the minimal $ increase makes it tempting. A lesser priced FWD would make the decision easier, but it wouldn’t be as safe as an AWD. Thank you.
 

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the hybrid also has better acceleration than the regular 2.5L RAV4, especially assisted by the electric motor(s)

 
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the rav hybrid goes through tires quicker because of the electric motors torque.
it has much lower maintenance costs provided nothing in the hybrid system spazzes out(other than tires).
hybrid has better ground clearance.

i have a 23 hybrid. Its been good. I get 45mpg in the city(better than rated).
 
Without a doubt I'd select the hybrid RAV4 (in FWD configuration, but that's neither here nor there since you feel safer with AWD). In addition to the factors you've listed, one more in favor of the hybrid is the lack of an accessory (serpentine) belt that, over time, would need to be replaced. It's also one less piece under the hood that a hungry critter can chew on and destroy.

Another factor in favor of the hybrid is a lesser chance of refrigerant leakage from the air conditioning system due to the nature of the integrated electric motor design.

Lastly, the most important factor of all: in the hybrid, the low-rpm torque from the traction motor means there's less reason to listen to Toyota's ClatterMax 4-cylinder engine groaning its way through the upper rpm range.
 
riverblue said:
Without a doubt I'd select the hybrid RAV4 (in FWD configuration, but that's neither here nor there since you feel safer with AWD). In addition to the factors you've listed, one more in favor of the hybrid is the lack of an accessory (serpentine) belt that, over time, would need to be replaced. It's also one less piece under the hood that a hungry critter can chew on and destroy.

Another factor in favor of the hybrid is a lesser chance of refrigerant leakage from the air conditioning system due to the nature of the integrated electric motor design.

Lastly, the most important factor of all: in the hybrid, the low-rpm torque from the traction motor means there's less reason to listen to Toyota's ClatterMax 4-cylinder engine groaning its way through the upper rpm range.
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You can't get the RAV4 hybrid with FWD. You have to step up to the Highlander to get a FWD Hybrid.
 
If you qualify for the federal/state tax credit or rebate, the Hybrid RAV4 could be cheaper than the regular gas RAV4. The Hybrid is made in North America allowing for that(I don't remember...up to $7200 - $7500) federal/state tax credit or rebate depending on the state that you live in. You'll only get back in taxes what you pay in taxes. Again, I don't know all of the details.

We bought a 2023 Toyota Venza, the corporate sibling to the RAV4. However the Venza, while being made in Japan
does not qualify for the tax credits as of 2023 but the RAV4 still does qualify as does the Corolla Cross and maybe the Highlander too. This tax credit didn't concern us as we don't qualify for the tax credits in our household anyway.
 
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My wife and I faced the same question two years ago and after 25,000 trouble free miles, we have been happy with our decision to buy the hybrid. I track our mileage on fuelly and we have achieved 44 mpg since we bought it new.

I learned after we bought it that there is a high voltage cable connection by the rear axle that has been known to suffer from corrosion in areas where the roads are salted. We live in routinely salted Vermont so I crawled under to take a look. Ours was not bad and since I have our cars undercoated with fluid film even fall, I just made sure to pack in a lot of the fluid film and that seems to help.

There was a lot of furor on Toyota forums about this because Toyota was not fixing a known issue after the standard warranty but a class action lawsuit has changed that and Toyota has acknowledged the issue and is replacing corroded high voltage cables in vehicles that are out of warranty now. There is a lot of info on this and google is your friend.

I didn't take a picture this year but my cable connection looks good and these are my before and after shots from last year.
1696070773040.png


1696070793921.png
 
oilhoarder said:
I’m in the market for a brand new 2023 RAV4 LE AWD (all of them are AWDs in a 200 miles radius), and I have gotten quotes at MSRP for both. Considering that I work from home (remote) and drive around 7-9k miles a year, with a break even point at around 5 years (attached), which would you pick?

Hybrid: $36,364.00 (out of the door price) reserved for early November arrival.
Brake pads last longer
No starter
10 year warranty on battery

Gas: $34,500.00 (OTD price) in stock.
I like to hold vehicles for at least 10 years.
Suburban driving outside of DC, so will see some I-495 and I-66 traffic.
I don’t commute during the week and primarily drive on the weekends.

Since I drive so little, I feel like I’m not the best candidate for a hybrid, but the minimal $ increase makes it tempting. A lesser priced FWD would make the decision easier, but it wouldn’t be as safe as an AWD. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I too live in the suburban DC area and commute on 66 daily.

I did a two week try before you buy rental of a non-hybrid 2020 RAV4. If there was zero traffic, the non hybrid got 29-31 MPG on my commute. If there was average traffic, it dropped to, 24-27 MPG. Heavy traffic dropped it even more to 19-22 MPG. Around town on the weekend the non-hybrid got right around 23 MPG.

After 700 miles of sampling with the non-hybrid I had an average of 27.1 MPG for my commute and around 25.0 average once I threw a test road trip into the mountains.

My 2020 RAV4 hybrid is the exact opposite. No traffic, the hybrid will get 37-40 MPG. Average traffic will get me 42-44 MPG. Heavy traffic will get me 47-51 MPG. Weekend around town traffic will get me 42ish.

My hybrid has averaged just over 41.5 MPG over the last 75K miles.

So, if you plan on keeping the car for about 80K miles. You will save $3746 at an average of $3/gallon (which seems unlikely for the next while). $4995 at an average of $4/gallon. If NOVA turns into CA, and gas goes up to $5, then you’ll be saving $6243. I’d personally go with the hybrid because even if gas magically goes down to $2/gallon. You will still save enough over the long run to pay off the hybrid premium.

Plus, the hybrids are smoother, more powerful, quieter, and so far, looking to be more reliable than the NA equivalent. As an extra bonus, you will probably never have to do a brake job on the hybrid. I’m at 75K miles and I still have over 90% of my brake pad life remaining.
 
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At 10 years you will be looking at replacing the third battery in the hybrid. The money saved in gas is a wash.

No one seems to compare the electricity cost of charging with the cost of gas? :rolleyes:
 
Hybrid. Gas prices are not going to get any cheaper and could go much higher during the time you own it.
 
ka9mnx said:
At 10 years you will be looking at replacing the third battery in the hybrid. The money saved in gas is a wash.

No one seems to compare the electricity cost of charging with the cost of gas? :rolleyes:
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Charging? Hmmm. He’s not asking about the plug in hybrid.

As for the battery pack. They can be rebuilt today for about $1500. Its likely they will become cheaper 10 years from now. Still cheaper than rebuilding a failing transmission.
 
2009Caraman said:
Charging? Hmmm. He’s not asking about the plug in hybrid.

As for the battery pack. They can be rebuilt today for about $1500. Its likely they will become cheaper 10 years from now. Still cheaper than rebuilding a failing transmission.
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Can you elaborate on where to get battery packs rebuilt and for $1,500?
 
I am a huge hybrid fan, and Toyota makes the best of them. The lack of a conventional transmission, lack of constant shifting gears, and lack of a noisy 4 cylinder at constant high RPM during anything more than normal acceleration is a huge deal in driving pleasure. Put another way, battery boosted acceleration is a huge deal!

But more than that, it allows the use of a an engine tuned to operate in its most efficient range, 41% thermal efficiency, high expansion ratio combustion and so on. In fact, it is my well researched belief that hybrids, in general, use less energy per mile than any other vehicle propulsion system.

True EV's consume more energy at the powerplant (remember the electric power grid is 33 to 35% power-efficient) than a 41% efficient hybrid with 9% transmission losses. Hybrids are about 37-38% efficient, fuel to wheel. EV's are in the 26% range.
 
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CharBaby said:
If you qualify for the federal/state tax credit or rebate, the Hybrid RAV4 could be cheaper than the regular gas RAV4. The Hybrid is made in North America allowing for that(I don't remember...up to $7200 - $7500) federal/state tax credit or rebate depending on the state that you live in. You'll only get back in taxes what you pay in taxes. Again, I don't know all of the details.

We bought a 2023 Toyota Venza, the corporate sibling to the RAV4. However the Venza, while being made in Japan
does not qualify for the tax credits as of 2023 but the RAV4 still does qualify as does the Corolla Cross and maybe the Highlander too. This tax credit didn't concern us as we don't qualify for the tax credits in our household anyway.
Click to expand...
The RAV4 Hybrid doesn’t qualify as the $7,500 federal tax credit only applies for a plug in hybrid. Such as the RAV4 prime.
 
ka9mnx said:
Can you elaborate on where to get battery packs rebuilt and for $1,500?
Click to expand...
Just 1 of many online stores.

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They can be rebuilt by yourself for even less. Theres a great chrisfix tutorial on this.
 
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