Hybrid electric water heater - anyone install one?

[Rand]

Life ain't over till it leaks.
I drain mine and drag it outside about every 2 or 3 year and flush all the junk out of it and replace the magnesium anode. Replacing the joke plastic drain valve with a straight through 3/4'' ball valve helps a lot.
Always make sure it has a 5,500 watt heater element in the top and you should be good to go.
Those heat pump hot water heaters are almost a scam when they break no one wants to work on them.
If you like Luke warm showers get a heat pump hot water heater because if you want to take advantage of the efficiency of a heat pump you won't get great hot water.
If they were as good as they're supposed to be then they wouldn't need a bunch of tax credits to get them sold.
Hard water will kill it fast.

So the person that doesn't own one is telling people who own one how bad it is???

 

[ctechbob]

The tax credit will be $600. Form 5695.

Wiring is pretty easy for me too. It is plumbing that scares me. Still, I managed both when I installed our water heater. I pulled the gas water heater so our house is all electric now. We have solar, so it works out nicely.

PEX for the win on that. Super easy to work with and you don't necessarily need the super expensive crimpers that crimp the rings, the other clamps work just fine.

These:

That's what I did my install with and had 0 leaks from the get-go.

 

[Rand]

PEX for the win on that. Super easy to work with and you don't necessarily need the super expensive crimpers that crimp the rings, the other clamps work just fine.

The "crimpers" have gotten cheaper.
the cinch style about 20$
Here is a decent crimp style for under $50

IWS-FAS F1807 PEX Crimping Tool Kit for 3/8 inch, 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, 1 inch Pex Copper Crimp Rings, c/w PEX Cutter,Go-no-go Gauge

Multi-Head PEX Crimper: IWS-FAS copper ring crimp tool kit includes 3 exchangeable die sets(1/2'', 3/8'', 3/4'') and built-in 1'' jaw, Go/No-Go gauge, PEX cutter. All components fit in a customized carrying case. Purpose: IWS-FAS F1807 PEX crimp tool kit is designed to compress copper crimp...

www.iwiss.com

You might need a pocket crimper for up in tight places. (kind you actuate with vice grips/plyers)
There is also a sharkbite flex line set that works acceptably.

 

[ctechbob]

The "crimpers" have gotten cheaper.
the cinch style about 20$
Here is a decent crimp style for under $50

IWS-FAS F1807 PEX Crimping Tool Kit for 3/8 inch, 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, 1 inch Pex Copper Crimp Rings, c/w PEX Cutter,Go-no-go Gauge

Multi-Head PEX Crimper: IWS-FAS copper ring crimp tool kit includes 3 exchangeable die sets(1/2'', 3/8'', 3/4'') and built-in 1'' jaw, Go/No-Go gauge, PEX cutter. All components fit in a customized carrying case. Purpose: IWS-FAS F1807 PEX crimp tool kit is designed to compress copper crimp...

www.iwiss.com

You might need a pocket crimper for up in tight places. (kind you actuate with vice grips/plyers)
There is also a sharkbite flex line set that works acceptably.

This is the crimper I have.

You're right though, if you're working in a tight space you might have to figure out a way around it, but that would be the case for any kind of crimp.

 

[oil pan 4]

So the person that doesn't own one is telling people who own one how bad it is???

I already had one and it broke, that's why I don't like them. So don't assume I never had one.
How do you think I know they provide weak hot water in heatpump only mode?
Years of first hand experience.
How do you think I know hard water kills them?
First hand experience.
How do you think I know no one would buy them with out a huge tax credit?
First hand experience.
So get out of here with that "well you don't know what you're talking about" nonsense.

 

[Rand]

I already had one and it broke, that's why I don't like them. So don't assume I never had one.

Fair enough. But which gen.. the newer stuff is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

How do you think I know they provide weak hot water in heatpump only mode?
Years of first hand experience.

If it was too weak why didnt you run it in hybrid mode?
Regen isnt much different than regular electric in hybrid mode.
User error?

How do you think I know hard water kills them?
First hand experience.

How did hard water kill yours?
I didnt have much trouble with 2 of them. first one did rust out at the union due to incompetence of installer (came with house 8+ years old)
My city water is over 400ppm in the summer. No issues with hard water.. not sure what issues a hpwh would have vs a regular electric.
if anything it would be less prone to issues.

How do you think I know no one would buy them with out a huge tax credit?
First hand experience.

Not mine. Your experience set of 1 instance doesn't seem typical.
The credit is nice and at least its not on a toy that only people making 100k a year can take full advantage of.

So get out of here with that "well you don't know what you're talking about" nonsense.

The electric difference pays off in about 2 years.. even without credit.. unless you have extremely cheap electric.

 

[awguy]

Bought a Rheem 50 gal one from Home Depot in Dec2018. I only received a $300 Federal tax credit. I save roughly $30 a month on my electric bill, up to $48/month in the summer. It's in the two car garage and will not cool it down although when going into the house during the summer it blows cool air whilst unlocking the house door. Actually it doesn't come on much during the summer it's so efficient. It's set at 120F. It's already paid for itself. I installed it using copper pipe and watching on-line videos. Don't like the plasticness of PEX tubing. It has touchscreen controls and a wireless app and remote water leak detection on the app.

 

[oil pan 4]

Fair enough. But which gen.. the newer stuff is SIGNIFICANTLY better.

If it was too weak why didnt you run it in hybrid mode?
Regen isnt much different than regular electric in hybrid mode.
User error?

How did hard water kill yours?
I didnt have much trouble with 2 of them. first one did rust out at the union due to incompetence of installer (came with house 8+ years old)
My city water is over 400ppm in the summer. No issues with hard water.. not sure what issues a hpwh would have vs a regular electric.
if anything it would be less prone to issues.

Not mine. Your experience set of 1 instance doesn't seem typical.
The credit is nice and at least its not on a toy that only people making 100k a year can take full advantage of.


The electric difference pays off in about 2 years.. even without credit.. unless you have extremely cheap electric.

Forget all that noise. I'm sticking with the old school ones, I can keep them going for 20 to 30 years. I know the same can't be said about that hybrid trash.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

I heard that hybrid water heaters are good and really help out when they’re installed in basements since they can function as a dehumidifier. Only bad I heard is the heat pump would crap out but I think that were older models and maybe GE had a bad run of units.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Forget all that noise. I'm sticking with the old school ones, I can keep them going for 20 to 30 years. I know the same can't be said about that hybrid trash.

20-30 yrs out of what?

 

[Rand]

Forget all that noise. I'm sticking with the old school ones, I can keep them going for 20 to 30 years. I know the same can't be said about that hybrid trash.

Well I'd save about $10000 in electricity over 30 years(maybe more with new more efficient model in 10 years)
so I'll keep my trash hybrid and wish you luck keeping anything modern working for 30 years.
Also Save another $10000 not running a dehumidifier in my basement for next 30 years

Of course since everything goes up... which includes the cost of electricity that is a very conservative estimate.

 

[billt460]

20-30 yrs out of what?

I believe he is referring to a conventional tank water heater.

 

[ctechbob]

Bought a Rheem 50 gal one from Home Depot in Dec2018. I only received a $300 Federal tax credit. I save roughly $30 a month on my electric bill, up to $48/month in the summer. It's in the two car garage and will not cool it down although when going into the house during the summer it blows cool air whilst unlocking the house door. Actually it doesn't come on much during the summer it's so efficient. It's set at 120F. It's already paid for itself. I installed it using copper pipe and watching on-line videos. Don't like the plasticness of PEX tubing. It has touchscreen controls and a wireless app and remote water leak detection on the app.

I've found the cooling effect in my garage to be about the same. If it were July and I closed my garage door and let the hot water run in the house constantly, it still wouldn't pull enough heat out of the garage to make me think it was 'cooled'.

Of course, that's not what I'm after, the hotter in the garage, the better.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

I believe he is referring to a conventional tank water heater.

Right, 20-30 yrs that’s hilarious

 

[oil pan 4]

Well I'd save about $10000 in electricity over 30 years(maybe more with new more efficient model in 10 years)
so I'll keep my trash hybrid and wish you luck keeping anything modern working for 30 years.
Also Save another $10000 not running a dehumidifier in my basement for next 30 years

Of course since everything goes up... which includes the cost of electricity that is a very conservative estimate.

Cool story. Don't have a basement, not interested.
How much money are you really saving after replacing it 3 or 4 times over 30 years and getting it repaired at least several times?

 

[oil pan 4]

20-30 yrs out of what?

Old style electric and gas hot water heaters.

 

[oil pan 4]

Right, 20-30 yrs that’s hilarious

Seems hilarious if you're like most people, install them, forget about them until they start leaking or stop working. Then yeah 20 years on a hot water heater would be an impossible number to you.
It's not impossible if you know there's a sacrifical anode inside them that needs to be replaced.
Typically the anode is completely gone within 5 years and the hot water heater rusts out in 2 or 3 years after the anode is gone.
How do you think steel ships last 50 years in salt water, same technology, sacrifical anodes.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Seems hilarious if you're like most people, install them, forget about them until they start leaking or stop working. Then yeah 20 years on a hot water heater would be an impossible number to you.
It's not impossible if you know there's a sacrifical anode inside them that needs to be replaced.
Typically the anode is completely gone within 5 years and the hot water heater rusts out in 2 or 3 years after the anode is gone.
How do you think steel ships last 50 years in salt water, same technology, sacrifical anodes.

You’re comparing apples to oranges there. Much more goes into ship maintenance. But I understand you expressing your point

 

[oil pan 4]

You’re comparing apples to oranges there. Much more goes into ship maintenance. But I understand you expressing your point

So prior to this moment you didn't know hot water heaters even had a sacrifical anode?

 

[SHOZ]

I am of the belief that the condition of your water means more than a high priced water heater does, as far as any longevity is concerned.

Hard water can kill off an expensive water heater much faster than a lower priced model will hold up with good quality water being run through it.

However $1,750 is a lot of money for a water heater kickback. Only you can determine if it's worth it. Yours seems to have lasted quite a while, (2007 to present). And 16 years for a water heater is very good... Especially with the crap they make today.

With a water softener my propane water heaters last well over 20 years. In hard well water. I drain a bit every year but nothing comes out. And the first thing I do with a new one is take the anode rod out. It gives me some sulfide smell with them in.

I was just looking at a hybrid. But really don't want a electric heater. And it's in my garage which at times needs the waste heat. Though it's triple wrapped in insulation and uses very little gas to maintain. Still an old time one with pilot.