This guy does 10k runs in my 2005 CR-V. Still doesn't burn/leak a drop. No smoke, issues, anything. 185k miles.
How many do 10K OCIs
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Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Mobil and it's landmark product, Mobil 1 did a study on a MB engine. It changed the oil every 13K and run over 1Million Kilometers before a teardown of the engine. Results? The engine looked as clean as yours throughout each and every area. It's time for more of us to consider 10K OCI's.....
Note this was with Mobil 1 0w40 (very rich in additives) and the M272 Mercedes engine took 8.3 quarts of oil!
Mobil and it's landmark product, Mobil 1 did a study on a MB engine. It changed the oil every 13K and run over 1Million Kilometers before a teardown of the engine. Results? The engine looked as clean as yours throughout each and every area. It's time for more of us to consider 10K OCI's.....
Note this was with Mobil 1 0w40 (very rich in additives) and the M272 Mercedes engine took 8.3 quarts of oil!
If there is no OLM, I do 10k on either M1 (both regular and HM) as well as Castrol Edge (both the black and gold versions) on the cars I change the oil on and they do at least 10k per year. Most of them do lose a quart during the OCI, so there is some replenishment.
My own car doesn't even accumulate 10k in a year, so I just change it annually, with M1 HM.
On OLM cars, I simply follow that, and use the cheapest synthetic on sale (usually Napa)
My own car doesn't even accumulate 10k in a year, so I just change it annually, with M1 HM.
On OLM cars, I simply follow that, and use the cheapest synthetic on sale (usually Napa)
Originally Posted By: Clevy
What assurances do you have you won't have it at 5000 miles,or 3000 miles.
I'm pretty sure I won't have varnish at the end of 3000 miles, but I've
never gotten that far; 6 months always rolls around before 3000.
What assurances do you have you won't have it at 5000 miles,or 3000 miles.
I'm pretty sure I won't have varnish at the end of 3000 miles, but I've
never gotten that far; 6 months always rolls around before 3000.
ls1mike
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I tell you when you look down the fill hole of some of the Government stuff even with recycle dino, you don't see much varnish. I think it will take few years.
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I tell you when you look down the fill hole of some of the Government stuff even with recycle dino, you don't see much varnish. I think it will take few years.
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Varnish is basically harmless. I've heard about it affecting vvt actuators however I don't believe it.
If oil actually flows over the parts varnish cannot form because the oil washes off any possible layering.
Yep. It might discolour metal however I'm not convinced its damaging anything. In fact a varnish layer could possibly reduce metal to metal contact and may even be desirable on the contact points inside an engine.
Just my observations and thoughts.
I tell you when you look down the fill hole of some of the Government stuff even with recycle dino, you don't see much varnish. I think it will take few years.
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Varnish is basically harmless. I've heard about it affecting vvt actuators however I don't believe it.
If oil actually flows over the parts varnish cannot form because the oil washes off any possible layering.
Yep. It might discolour metal however I'm not convinced its damaging anything. In fact a varnish layer could possibly reduce metal to metal contact and may even be desirable on the contact points inside an engine.
Just my observations and thoughts.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Quote:
As sludge and varnish build up inside the engine, it can restrict the small oil passages that deliver oil to the crankshaft bearings, increasing the risk of oil starvation and bearing failure.
LINK
The author doesn't mention which is more restrictive between sludge and varnish; he just says they both contribute to oil flow restriction through the oil feed passages. I might write to that guy and ask him to be more specific.
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Quote:
As sludge and varnish build up inside the engine, it can restrict the small oil passages that deliver oil to the crankshaft bearings, increasing the risk of oil starvation and bearing failure.
LINK
The author doesn't mention which is more restrictive between sludge and varnish; he just says they both contribute to oil flow restriction through the oil feed passages. I might write to that guy and ask him to be more specific.
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Mobil and it's landmark product, Mobil 1 did a study on a MB engine. It changed the oil every 13K and run over 1Million Kilometers before a teardown of the engine. Results? The engine looked as clean as yours throughout each and every area. It's time for more of us to consider 10K OCI's.....
Note this was with Mobil 1 0w40 (very rich in additives) and the M272 Mercedes engine took 8.3 quarts of oil!
Good Point!...still remarkable!
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Mobil and it's landmark product, Mobil 1 did a study on a MB engine. It changed the oil every 13K and run over 1Million Kilometers before a teardown of the engine. Results? The engine looked as clean as yours throughout each and every area. It's time for more of us to consider 10K OCI's.....
Note this was with Mobil 1 0w40 (very rich in additives) and the M272 Mercedes engine took 8.3 quarts of oil!
Good Point!...still remarkable!
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
Varnish could be formed from a poorly designed engine, not necessarily from running an oil for 10k OCIs.
I slowly reached 10k OCIs in my 07 Civic EX, even went past 10k with ease using Amsoil's Signature Series oil. I have no doubt in my mind that Mobil 1 or any other synthetic could have done the same in my efficient 1.8L Civic.
I slowly reached 10k OCIs in my 07 Civic EX, even went past 10k with ease using Amsoil's Signature Series oil. I have no doubt in my mind that Mobil 1 or any other synthetic could have done the same in my efficient 1.8L Civic.
9-10K in the V. Ran the same with PP 5W20. I don't see any different with 0w20.
Originally Posted By: tig1
How many here actually do 10K OCIs on 0-20, and how long have you been doing it? I have used M1 0-20 now for about 4 years with MC filters at 10K. How about you?
My '03 ZX2 got 10k mi M1 5-20 then later 0-20 changes from 40k to when I sold it at 130k. Clean as could be inside. FL-2005 and later the FL-400S every change. PCV was sludge-free when I changed it at 120k.
I'm working my up there in the MINI, currently doing 7,5k and at 30k vehicle miles, I'll go to 10k mi. Not on 0-20 but on a blend of 5w30 and 0w-40.
How many here actually do 10K OCIs on 0-20, and how long have you been doing it? I have used M1 0-20 now for about 4 years with MC filters at 10K. How about you?
My '03 ZX2 got 10k mi M1 5-20 then later 0-20 changes from 40k to when I sold it at 130k. Clean as could be inside. FL-2005 and later the FL-400S every change. PCV was sludge-free when I changed it at 120k.
I'm working my up there in the MINI, currently doing 7,5k and at 30k vehicle miles, I'll go to 10k mi. Not on 0-20 but on a blend of 5w30 and 0w-40.
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
I do not buy into sensationalism. Sorry if varnish has that much of negative effect in your engines operation than you have a engine that is too finicky and I do not want a finicky engine.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
I do not buy into sensationalism. Sorry if varnish has that much of negative effect in your engines operation than you have a engine that is too finicky and I do not want a finicky engine.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Quote:
As sludge and varnish build up inside the engine, it can restrict the small oil passages that deliver oil to the crankshaft bearings, increasing the risk of oil starvation and bearing failure.
Varnish is caused by the oil oxidizing. Where you see varnish ring coking(also caused by oxidizing) may be starting. And yes varnish is not harmless, and can contribute to oil passages clogging. Especially in the timing chain guide areas.
LINK
The author doesn't mention which is more restrictive between sludge and varnish; he just says they both contribute to oil flow restriction through the oil feed passages. I might write to that guy and ask him to be more specific.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I have to wonder how much does varnish hurt? I would not want to have it, but if it doesn't sludge has anyone proven discoloration is bad for an engine?
Quote:
As sludge and varnish build up inside the engine, it can restrict the small oil passages that deliver oil to the crankshaft bearings, increasing the risk of oil starvation and bearing failure.
Varnish is caused by the oil oxidizing. Where you see varnish ring coking(also caused by oxidizing) may be starting. And yes varnish is not harmless, and can contribute to oil passages clogging. Especially in the timing chain guide areas.
LINK
The author doesn't mention which is more restrictive between sludge and varnish; he just says they both contribute to oil flow restriction through the oil feed passages. I might write to that guy and ask him to be more specific.
Merkava.
Show me just 1 engine failure that was due to varnish,just one.
Not sludge and varnish or any varnish combination,just varnish.
And save the copy and paste from manufacturers trying to sell a product. If you want to post such info have it come from an independent firm who isn't trying to sell their latest and greatest.
I can certainly understand the idea that many layers of varnish could affect the vvt systems considering their small oil passages however in real life I don't believe its a real issue.
Especially at 10k drains using an oil that states 10k drains are fine.
In theory it's possible in practice I doubt it.
And I'll stand by my claim that varnish is harmless in an engine. Vvt equipped engines may be a bit more susceptible to issues but if no vvt how can varnish harm anything.
Aren't we after an anti-wear layer such as the one applied by zddp.
And don't oils contain friction modifiers ,again that leave a layer to reduce friction,now a layer left behind is harmful.
Can't have it both ways so which is it.
Show me just 1 engine failure that was due to varnish,just one.
Not sludge and varnish or any varnish combination,just varnish.
And save the copy and paste from manufacturers trying to sell a product. If you want to post such info have it come from an independent firm who isn't trying to sell their latest and greatest.
I can certainly understand the idea that many layers of varnish could affect the vvt systems considering their small oil passages however in real life I don't believe its a real issue.
Especially at 10k drains using an oil that states 10k drains are fine.
In theory it's possible in practice I doubt it.
And I'll stand by my claim that varnish is harmless in an engine. Vvt equipped engines may be a bit more susceptible to issues but if no vvt how can varnish harm anything.
Aren't we after an anti-wear layer such as the one applied by zddp.
And don't oils contain friction modifiers ,again that leave a layer to reduce friction,now a layer left behind is harmful.
Can't have it both ways so which is it.
Last edited:
Doing 10K+ OCIs in wife's C300 using M1 0w-40.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
I do not buy into sensationalism. Sorry if varnish has that much of negative effect in your engines operation than you have a engine that is too finicky and I do not want a finicky engine.
Exactly.
Is there a specific moon phase that we should be driving in too.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Varnish is basically harmless.
Harmless you say?
Quote:
Thanks to advancements in high temperature resistant materials, modern combustion turbines are able to operate at very high firing temperatures. This, in turn, causes high bearing compartment temperatures. As the lube oil flows into and around the bearings, it becomes hot and mixes with the air in bearing compartments. Each time the lube oil passes through a hot bearing compartment, it oxides a little. This oxidation causes the early depletion of antioxidant additives in the oil, and eventually leads to the formation of insolubles, which are the beginnings of varnish.
If left in the lube oil, these insolubles will build up and eventually stick to metal surfaces. Since most large combustion turbines also use their lube oil system to operate servomechanisms for fuel valves and variable vane actuators, filming can occur on these components and cause them to stick, malfunction, and eventually result in the engine tripping off line. Furthermore, varnish films will cause excessive wear to bearings, resulting in early bearing failures and unexpected maintenance requirements.
As mentioned, oil degradation is the primary cause of varnish; however, oil degradation itself is caused by several factors. Poor filtration will allow particulates, wear particles, and water to build up and contaminate the oil. Oxidation, high temperatures, and moisture will cause the depletion of antioxidant additives. All of these factors degrade the oil and allow insolubles to form. Furthermore, it has been found that wear debris – especially of the sub-micron size – act as catalyst sites for insolubles and varnish formation.
LINK
I do not buy into sensationalism. Sorry if varnish has that much of negative effect in your engines operation than you have a engine that is too finicky and I do not want a finicky engine.
Exactly.
Is there a specific moon phase that we should be driving in too.
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