House price

[alarmguy]

...OR a company will layoff a huge swath of people and re-hire them as contract employees (ex BMW-Greer circa 2008).

You are incorrect as far as I can tell unless you can produce something otherwise. Curious what you consider a huge swath of people?
750 non BMW employees (contract workers) were laid off during the financial crisis of 2008.

Is there something I am missing here? You state a huge swath of BMW employees were laid off and rehired as contract workers. I think that is incorrect as I can only find that non BMW employees were laid off.
They were contract workers not BMW employees which of whom are paid by another company to work there.

But the point is, with over a one billion dollar manufacturing plant odds are employees of any company will have a job to come back too, when you produce a product, you have "roots" in the ground vs a company that doesnt produce anything but an office building with office workers.

BMW To Lay Off Hundreds Of Temp Workers

As many as 733 of BMW's temporary workers at its Greer, S.C., plant could be laid off in December due to the ailing economy.

www.manufacturing.net

 

[zzyzzx]

Sorry, gotta say, $500 apartment? What is this , 1976?

I was paying less than that in 1989-1990 in Baltimore County.

 

[PimTac]

People and companies in CA are leaving in droves? Not in Silicon Valley. Apple, Tesla, Google, Samsung and the rest continue to gobble up expensive commerial real estate and build build build. Property values continue to go up.
Lotta jobs here... From construction to Costco to high tech to you name it.

Silicon Valley is a bubble. There has been an exodus of people leaving California

 

[PimTac]

Sorry, gotta say, $500 apartment? What is this , 1976?

$500 in many places won’t even get you a bedspace now.

 

[Donald]

Zip-sheathing is no better or worse than OSB w/housewrap. ZIP is OSB with a WRB (weather resistant barrier) applied on one side. It's an all-in-one product so although it's more expensive than OSB w/housewrap savings should be found in the labor. There are two problems with ZIP sheathing. First is that the tape must be applied correctly with the appropriate J-roller against clean seams and the nailing schedule must be followed with NO overdriven nails. The system fails when the tape has sections which are "fish mouthed" and collect water or let air through or where over driven nails let water through and let me tell you there are plenty of instances where both have occurred.

It may be easier to hit an air tightness number with ZIP but it really depends on how skilled the framers are because it can be done with OSB/Housewrap. The workers just have to want to do it and have the proper tools.

While I am not a builder I think its difficult to get a house wrapped properly with house wrap. Wide rolls, seams should be taped or caulked to seal.
So while an experienced crew can do either well, what I see is the houses being thrown up they use housewrap and the more custom built homes they use Zipboard.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Living in Chattanooga for past 9 years. Huge growth, fast internet and a developer friendly Mayor. Problem is, every road in the area needs resurfacing (either potholes, sink holes, large cracks just a mess), no new roads being built or widened, 4 new subdivision have gone up near me in past 5 years, no road enhancements, sewers overflow in many areas of Chattanooga when it rains heavily (like all winter) (multiple EPA fines and issues) Within 10 years we will have Nashville and Atlanta traffic issues. All the leaders care about is growth, no infrastructure. My advice, unless you need a job here this will not be a great place to live in 10 years. Yes, no income tax, sales tax is 9.25% on everything. Plus, TN Governor is nuts!!!!!!!!!!

I drove through there last October and imo the topography is not conducive to being able to handle high volumes of traffic. Lots of steep hills, combined with an encroaching river.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

While I am not a builder I think its difficult to get a house wrapped properly with house wrap. Wide rolls, seams should be taped or caulked to seal.
So while an experienced crew can do either well, what I see is the houses being thrown up they use housewrap and the more custom built homes they use Zipboard.

I can be. It just depends on the desire of the crew putting it up. ZIP is not cheap compared to Tyvek and even more expensive when compared to generic housewrap which has been a mainstay for over 40 years. In order to maintain the warranty Huber requires you to use their own acrylic tape or sealer. The tapes have their own dispensing gun. Overdriven nails have to be capped off with tape/sealer. This added expense is why you usually only see it on luxury builds. One of the great things about ZIP is that once it's up and sealed it can sit exposed for about 6 months.

 

[Skippy722]

Unfortunately these were the jobs (housekeeping, lawncare, construction, etc.) that used to give our teens and 20 somethings work and work ethic. Now they just lay around and do drugs and text on social media... The consequences of this shift is very bad.

I was working part time at 16 in high school… just before my 18th birthday I was working 58 hours a week during the summer and managing to pull 32 hours a week during school in a machine shop. Graduated and been working full time since, averaging ~7-9 hours of OT a week for the last 8 years. A loud vocal minority is still a minority, more 16-24 year olds are working than not.

 

[mightymousetech]

$500 in many places won’t even get you a bedspace now.

Guess you could sleep in a parking spot.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

You are incorrect as far as I can tell unless you can produce something otherwise. Curious what you consider a huge swath of people?
750 non BMW employees (contract workers) were laid off during the financial crisis of 2008.

Is there something I am missing here? You state a huge swath of BMW employees were laid off and rehired as contract workers. I think that is incorrect as I can only find that non BMW employees were laid off.
They were contract workers not BMW employees which of whom are paid by another company to work there.

But the point is, with over a one billion dollar manufacturing plant odds are employees of any company will have a job to come back too, when you produce a product, you have "roots" in the ground vs a company that doesnt produce anything but an office building with office workers.

BMW To Lay Off Hundreds Of Temp Workers

As many as 733 of BMW's temporary workers at its Greer, S.C., plant could be laid off in December due to the ailing economy.

www.manufacturing.net

From what I've been told BMW keeps a certain amount workers on perpetual contract status so they can be laid off when production is reduced. It is what it is. In any case I misspoke about the location. It occurred in Germany not the SC plant. In 2008 positions vacated were replaced with contract employees later on.

 

[Andrew1972]

The media mentions a worker shortage but there is a huge worker shortage in construction which they seldom bring up.

Part of the problem is todays parents, the education system and the building industry itself.

What parent today wants their high school kids not go to college and become a carpenter/work in the building trades?

With all the subbed out work in the construction industry to small companies with self employed or small crews, it is hard to get in the trade
and become skilled.

K-12 schools and parents have a heavy push towards prepping students for a collage education or else you are a loser and will struggle in life.

High school vocational programs have wanned and are often filled by the student that generally don't do well in school.
Years ago a student that excelled in trig would be in the carpentry vocational program.

You can go to college(2yr) then go into trades. The challenge of trades is great while young but as you age hard on you physically and you need your exit plan.

 

[alarmguy]

From what I've been told BMW keeps a certain amount workers on perpetual contract status so they can be laid off when production is reduced. It is what it is. In any case I misspoke about the location. It occurred in Germany not the SC plant. In 2008 positions vacated were replaced with contract employees later on.

Its all good and hope you know we are just having a friendly conversation. Hard to convey that in a forum sometimes.

1. Yes and No. Yes BMW Greer/ Greenville/ Spartanburg always has workers on contract. They are not BMW employees, the actual employer is a huge recruiting company (MAU) working for BMW.
BMW demands for employees is tremendous on an incredible scale and a company (MAU) handles recruiting for them. Once the recruiting company hires an employee, that employee is now working for the recruiter MAU, paid by the recruiter and offered medical benefits from the recruiter that are similar to BMW benefits but in no way does BMW pay that worker, they are on contract working in a BMW facility.

The demands so high for workers that the recruiter lets the person who takes the contract worker position know that if they prove themselves to be reliable good worker BMW typically will make them a permanent employee within 1 to 2 years.
Typically its a year but can take up to two years, still good pay and benefits with the recruiting company. (Within one year my son was made a permanent employee.)
So I guess you could say this leads to a perpetual amount of contract workers working in BMW plants but I think due to the perpetual, NEVER ENDING hiring of employees.
Im amazed at the stuff my son sends me from the contract company hiring and recruiting efforts. IN 2008 I think they were 5000 + employees. Today they are 8000 + employees. They just keep expanding and expanding, hiring never stops and one must keep in mind people leave jobs as well, whether retiring or other personal reasons. Anyway, that is where maybe the perpetual thing comes from and I would assume yes to some degree some positions might be temp positions but if your a good worker, there will be a position for you. They struggle to stay staffed. At will my son can work overtime ANY time he wants but is never pressured.
(ill double check what I just with my son but we are pretty close and I sort of know the system to be sure of all this above)

2. Ahh .. (by the way Im only posting this stuff because business stuff my whole life fascinates me)
Ok, Germany, my knowledge is more limited (by the way, my son was in Germany just last year touring the country and plant)

From what I understand as he told me and my memory of it, German unions are not ANYTHING like USA unions or the way we as Americans perceive unions to be.
They actually WORK WITH THE COMPANY (imagine that) for the betterment of the company so all can profit, including the company!
*LOL* Now isnt that a concept? So I cant say you are wrong on 2008 in Germany during the world Financial crisis but I can say there most likely is a very good explanation as they are union workers in German BMW plants but not the typical way we perceive unions in the USA. They deal with fairness on all sides, not a one way street so I can only assume back in 2008 their was a reason for what you are posting and most likely nothing like we in the USA perceive it to be.

I gotta quit writing diaries in here *LOL* !

Ok, back to home prices! Anyone, anyone, who wants to work can work in South Carolina, earn a good wage, buy a home, raise a family.
AS mentioned some big employers are here now, we know Boeing isnt going anyplace soon either, not Volvo ether. But that's the tip of the iceberg. The parts suppliers struggle to find workers as well, good paying jobs. Every plant, including BMW has a host of countless suppliers who need to actually have the part (for an example, the door liners!) on the assembly line the moment that particular vehicle comes down past the station that installs it.
Really fascinating stuff. SO what I am saying, jobs are everywhere. Hey, we got a 3.5% unemployment rate here, amazing.
A country needs to produce products, office workers are expendable and mobile to anyplace in the country and lately, anyplace in the world. But its not easy to move billion dollar production plants around the world.

 

[JeffKeryk]

From what I've been told BMW keeps a certain amount workers on perpetual contract status so they can be laid off when production is reduced. It is what it is. In any case I misspoke about the location. It occurred in Germany not the SC plant. In 2008 positions vacated were replaced with contract employees later on.

This is how corporate America operates today. Contract worker do not count in headcount; they can be laid off without reason and with no need to disclose the cut back to investors ot the street.

 

[PandaBear]

I have read your posts on this subject. You seem to look down on people "swinging" a hammer.
A lot of kids are spoiled by parents who do not want their kids "swinging" a hammer like they did.
Doesnt make much sense huh? Long Island was pretty much built by laborers and companies like that. World War 2 vets ect. Long Island turned into the darling of the country but now on a decline because they are all office workers now, no longer producing a product, when you dont produce a product you are easily replaced or relocated.
People are in for a rude awaking. You cant not produce a product and have job security.
Lets face it, New Yorkers are fleeing the state, factual information. Many more would like too but afraid.

I am trying to comprehend what you are trying to say here and they seem contradictory. Nobody is looking down on people swinging a hammer, it is tough work and they deserve the money they make. Somehow I do see people complaining that people are too lazy to work, parents spoil them too much, workers are too greedy asking for too much, yet they would not do the jobs themselves or send their own kids to trades school.

It is always someone else not raising their kids to good work ethics and spoil them with promise of college education instead of going to trade school so other good work ethics people can work for them.

Regarding to job security, we will keep losing them no matter what you do, that's the reality of the rude awaking. No jobs will have them in the future. Producing products? Growing food? They always get automated and fewer people required. How many people were needed in farming in the past vs now to feed each person? How many people are needed to build each car in the past vs the future? How many people are needed to paint a new car now that robots are doing the job? Even without manufacturing overseas?

Reality is you can only do so much helping your kids in their careers, even more so helping your neighbors and fellow citizens, we all have to figure out what is the future and what we can do, rather than listening to what our parents tell us which jobs are good and which jobs are going away.

I am sure Cupertino aren't dying when Apple started moving computer manufacturing to China. Their factory floor workers are now mostly working as technicians or other local jobs, rather than in poverty like in Detroit. Problem with Detroit isn't that manufacturing is gone, it is they didn't create new things to replace what was gone, it was a city ran by one industry and 3 companies, and if they abandoned you you are done.

 

[PandaBear]

You can go to college(2yr) then go into trades. The challenge of trades is great while young but as you age hard on you physically and you need your exit plan.

As I said earlier, customers (the employers, the people who pay for the services to the employers), want someone experienced, young, fast, and pay them entry level pay like a guy in front of home depot with no document.

Then all of a sudden when these people either went back home, went to school for a higher paying job, went for their exit plan, or raise their prices to reflect what makes sense to them, it is someone else ripping them off, someone else hiring unqualified labors, someone else hiring slackers for the price, and someone else not raising their kids right.

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I am sure Cupertino aren't dying when Apple started moving computer manufacturing to China. Their factory floor workers are now mostly working as technicians or other local jobs, rather than in poverty like in Detroit. Problem with Detroit isn't that manufacturing is gone, it is they didn't create new things to replace what was gone, it was a city ran by one industry and 3 companies, and if they abandoned you you are done.

PandaBear, many Silicon Valley Apple factory and warehouse workers found themselves jobless in the 90's. Some went to the Roseville for awhile; some easily got jobs because Apple employees were prized due to their training. But they made a lot less money and had to work 5 days a week instead of Friday parties. Many found themselves in trouble because they thought the Apple gravy train would go on forever.

Apple continues to expand in the Valley. Tesla and others as well. But it is all tech.

 

[PandaBear]

PandaBear, many Silicon Valley Apple factory and warehouse workers found themselves jobless in the 90's. Some went to the Roseville for awhile; some easily got jobs because Apple employees were prized due to their training. But they made a lot less money and had to work 5 days a week instead of Friday parties. Many found themselves in trouble because they thought the Apple gravy train would go on forever.

Apple continues to expand in the Valley. Tesla and others as well. But it is all tech.

Very true, any transformation would include population changes and people losing out. I'm sure nobody build stuff in Chicago and Manhattan these days either, and SOMA in San Francisco were the same until the new wave of tech companies take over and replace the old textile industry.

Still, cities with new industry replacing the old ones survive. The one ones were gone and would need to be replaced, regardless of what ones believe you cannot manufacture your way out of a downturn.

 

[eljefino]

It was the last bastion of good, high paying union employment. The government train wrecked it with too many expensive regulations,

Whaaaaa?

The FAA let Boeing self-certify their 737's MCAS system with disastrous results. This country's government loves the airlines and aerospace industry to a fault.

 

[nickaluch]

Sad

I have read your posts on this subject. You seem to look down on people "swinging" a hammer.
A lot of kids are spoiled by parents who do not want their kids "swinging" a hammer like they did.
Doesnt make much sense huh? Long Island was pretty much built by laborers and companies like that. World War 2 vets ect. Long Island turned into the darling of the country but now on a decline because they are all office workers now, no longer producing a product, when you dont produce a product you are easily replaced or relocated.
People are in for a rude awaking. You cant not produce a product and have job security.
Lets face it, New Yorkers are fleeing the state, factual information. Many more would like too but afraid.

I have read your posts on this subject. You seem to look down on people "swinging" a hammer.
A lot of kids are spoiled by parents who do not want their kids "swinging" a hammer like they did.
Doesnt make much sense huh? Long Island was pretty much built by laborers and companies like that. World War 2 vets ect. Long Island turned into the darling of the country but now on a decline because they are all office workers now, no longer producing a product, when you dont produce a product you are easily replaced or relocated.
People are in for a rude awaking. You cant not produce a product and have job security.
Lets face it, New Yorkers are fleeing the state, factual information. Many more would like too but afraid.

I'm sorry you feel I look down on people who swing a hammer if I offended you I sincerely apologize. I educated my daughter's for better opportunities, make a fantastic living , to enjoy the great things life has to offer and spoil themselves. I do take offense that you think that is spoiling my kids by educating them. My dad was a garbage man his priority was to send his three boys to college and land good non physical labor careers because he didn't want us to ever work as hard as he did. He succeeded in that goal.

 

[nickaluch]

There are still good jobs here and entry level that would be the "union worker" of decades ago.
Those jobs just shifted from the repressive business states of the North and West to the far more friendly states of the south. Good paying jobs, incredible benefits.

The largest exporter of American made automobiles and hundreds of smaller independent businesses that support it as just one example is right here in South Carolina.
They are constantly hiring, recruiting and they are good paying jobs, more so when you look at the cost of housing, quality of life, cost of taxes. That company is BMW. I know, my son works for them. Its their largest automotive plant in the world cranking out up to just shy of 1000 BMWs a day and the majority being sent overseas. They constantly vote down the union.
Many other companies of similar tales in TN and Alabama and that is the tip of the iceberg.

Other examples for South Carolina and again just the tip of the iceberg is the new Volvo plant that recently opened up and how about the Boeing now building aircraft in South Carolina too. Who would have ever thought Boeing could pull off manufacturing airplanes from the repressive environment of Everett Washington to Charleston SC. Never mind all the supporting industries related to those plants.

Companies flee the West Coast and Northern states because of repressive regulations stifling business, so they either move south or like ALL/most of the the west Coast tech companies they have their products built overseas.
Its not greed (no politics in this forum) but look to the business friendly policies of the other states and other countries.

BTW - I was born, raised, spent most my adult life on the South Shore of Nassau county as well as all my siblings and parents. Oh my god, it was a great place for boating, dad had me on a boat almost the day I could walk, at 18 I bought my own first boat. Spent 1000s of hours in my life on the great South Bay and in the ocean off Long Island. It is one thing I miss.
It was a GREAT place to grow up but now an overblown repressive over taxed substandard of living as far as I Am concerned and after moving here/liviing here for 15 years now in the south, I can say its true.
I live in a home most Long Islanders can only dream about and instead of my property taxes being $25,000 a year they are $3,500 (yes, that's right, three thousand five hundred) in one of the states best school districts of which my daughter graduated, then attended a great college here at Clemson and now works in a great job in the up and (*LOL* its ridiculous her job is so good but she is a hard worker/good at what she does) coming Charlotte NC two hours away.

Ok, on to the West Coast, I see another conversation by some regulars in here. Yeah, sure no question Silicon Valley is the tech center of the world, one just needs to remember that Detroit used to be the automotive center of the world.
The difference between the two is nothing is manufactured in Silicon Valley, the cost would be prohibitive. So I look at many (NOT ALL) of the big companies like Apple (one example) who are more like the middle man now, middle men at some point lose their business. With no production there, there is no "stickiness" to be forced to stay if they do not want too. BTW we are officially an Apple family now so I have nothing against Apple and I have been computing for over 25 years. I love their products.

Apple designs the product but its manufactured in other countries, this goes for almost any tech item coming out of CA and if its made in the USA, its not made in Silicon Valley. So what I am saying is its a lot more easy as technology advances to cut out the middle man and you can expect some day, maybe not in my lifetime but most likley in my lifetime a paradigm shift that blindsides them/didnt see it coming in Silicon Valley.

Texas is another example, just took how easy it was for Elon Musk to move his headquarters, yeah, he left his plants behind, he had a product that is produced here in the USA. See the difference? You cant just pull up a factory but you can replace Silicon Valley since nothing is produced there. The greed is in the voters, they install the "system" that makes it impossible to compete on a world wide scale from where that are but there are other places in the USA.
You cant really believe that China with billions of people that there isnt a grand design one day to be the next Silcon Valley or any other country in the world for that matter after all, nothing is made in the valley, its just a think tank/design center. Also the more advanced Silicon Valley helps the world become, the less people will be needed in the valley, AI will be developing the products if the valley survives which I think they will, just like Detroit has, which is much smaller than it used to be.

California unemployment rate = 6.5%
New York unemployment rate - 6.2%
South Carolina unemployment rate = 3.5%

(todays thoughts, first cup of coffee before the gym)
Have a great day! This post is not intended to ruffle feathers. One important lesson in life is just because something is as it is today, dont ignore signs and discount what one think won't happen.

Excellent read extremely interesting