This same thread is ongoing over at blue oval and after a week they are all still laughing at the mini van "truck"
Honda's New Pickup
- Thread starter Jelly
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1sttruck "I wish that my tuck had locking hubs so that I could engage 4wd drive and unlock the rear wheels, making a front wheel drive vehicle for low loads in mixed traction situations."
You can if you have a full floater rear.. You can get a manual hub kit for it.
You can if you have a full floater rear.. You can get a manual hub kit for it.
Zaedock, I was not trying to get personal. I think we are argueing about terminology. When car companies talk about about 4WD/AWD systems they often say that the car "automatically determines if a wheel is slipping and applies more torque to the wheel that is not slipping" - That is a description of a limited slip differential. However, some limited slip differentials are computer controlled (Honda's on the Acura MDX). Some companies apply the brakes to the wheel that is slipping to cause more torque to be transmitted to the wheel that is not slipping.
Plus, there are many more varieties of systems out there now. I just read up on the "Super Handling All Wheel drive system" (SH AWD) for the Acura RL. Independant Computer controlled clutches for each wheel as well as front to rear torque.
Plus, there are many more varieties of systems out there now. I just read up on the "Super Handling All Wheel drive system" (SH AWD) for the Acura RL. Independant Computer controlled clutches for each wheel as well as front to rear torque.
thermo...you are absolutely wrong saying honda produces gutless engines. I don't like honda but their engineering is legendary.
The mere fact that all four wheels have power sent to them does not make all such systems the same. In approximately the past 20-30 years, numerous systems with all four wheels driving have been developed. These systems are generally, for purposes of discussion, divided into and called 4WD and AWD. In both types of systems all four wheels drive. However, with the "traditional", old style, 4WD system power is not sent from one axle, or one wheel, to the other axle or to other wheels when slippage occurs on an axle or wheel. In addition, the traditional system is not designed and built to compensate for the fact that the front and rear axles often turn at slightly different speeds. When this happens in a traditional, old style, 4WD system, damage, sometimes severe, to the drive train can occur. So you should not drive a traditional, old style, 4WD system on dry pavement. The experts have told us this ever since traditional, old style, 4WD hit the market, and motor vehicle owners' manuals for traditional, old style, 4WD vehicles explain this. This is common knowledge among informed 4WD owners.
AWD systems were developed primarily to remedy the two major 4WD drawbacks pointed out in the paragraph above, and a number of different AWD systems have been developed. I pointed out the difference between the traditional, old style, 4WD and the typical AWD in my post above.
The world of 4WD and AWD systems has become very complex. I HAVE done the research, over a period of many years. Anyone thinking of buying a 4WD or AWD vehicle should inform themselves of exactly how the system in the vehicle is designed and built, how it works, and when it can and cannot be used.
AWD systems were developed primarily to remedy the two major 4WD drawbacks pointed out in the paragraph above, and a number of different AWD systems have been developed. I pointed out the difference between the traditional, old style, 4WD and the typical AWD in my post above.
The world of 4WD and AWD systems has become very complex. I HAVE done the research, over a period of many years. Anyone thinking of buying a 4WD or AWD vehicle should inform themselves of exactly how the system in the vehicle is designed and built, how it works, and when it can and cannot be used.
I have had "real" 4WD drive SUV's (Ford Explorer) and now have an AWD Chevy Blazer S-10.
Personally, I prefer real 4WD with a granny gear range, but AWD with an auto transmission is quite a bit more family friendly. They just get in the truck and go, and I don't have to worry about them knowing when to engage 4WD, or driving on a hard surface with 4WD engaged and chewing up the tires and diffs.
Our AWD vehicle only gets used a few times a year and I know it will work when I need it. On the old 4WD, I would have to drive it once a month or so and cycle all the 4WD stuff to make sure it worked when I needed it.
Personally, I prefer real 4WD with a granny gear range, but AWD with an auto transmission is quite a bit more family friendly. They just get in the truck and go, and I don't have to worry about them knowing when to engage 4WD, or driving on a hard surface with 4WD engaged and chewing up the tires and diffs.
Our AWD vehicle only gets used a few times a year and I know it will work when I need it. On the old 4WD, I would have to drive it once a month or so and cycle all the 4WD stuff to make sure it worked when I needed it.
Honda has a nice web site describing the Ridgeline's technical features:
Honda Website Link
With modern electronics it is possible to engineer an AWD system to do things the old, purely mechanical 4WD systems, cannot do.
[ February 23, 2006, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]
Honda Website Link
Looks like Honda's VTM-4 system is somewhat unique with its Acceleration Torque Control (ATC) which senses the torque on a wheel and proactively (before slippage) redirects engine power to the other wheels.
With modern electronics it is possible to engineer an AWD system to do things the old, purely mechanical 4WD systems, cannot do.
[ February 23, 2006, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]
See thats all bogus Honda B S, you can't counter wheel slippage until it occurs unless you are always throwing power where it is not needed in anticipation of wheel slippage. If thats the cause ya I want my transfer case back or at least a center diff thats lockable.
Also applying brakes to similuate a limited slip is weak, I rather much have the real thing.
I also can't imagine it holding up to any real amount of torque a V8 truck would make.
Also applying brakes to similuate a limited slip is weak, I rather much have the real thing.
I also can't imagine it holding up to any real amount of torque a V8 truck would make.
The Raider is made for play? What? And the Dakota isn't? That's a really dumb statement.
Well, here's some more from the Honda website (I think it's kinda cool Honda is willing to provide as much technical information as they do):
I can't tell how the the VTM-4 rear differential adjusts torque to each rear wheel BEFORE slippage. It has that electric coil controlling the clutch engagement for each wheel so perhaps the individual rear wheel torque is regulated with that (there's no mention of ABS being used in the rear - is there a Honda engineer in the house??). Finally, the front wheel torque is distributed using the ABS braking system. If that's done before slippage it must be able to sense a torque differential between the wheels.
VTM-4 stands for Variable Torque Management to all four wheels.
So far, reading the ROC forum, the Ridgeline has held up well for its intended use and seems to have avoided much of the first year vehicle manufacturing bugs one might anticipate.
Be all that as it may, it is ugly and will not tow anything like a nice diesel or a big gaser for that matter. Nor, will it go rock hopping on the Rubicon. But, it holds five comfortably with excellent safety (the VTM-4 is way ahead of conventional 4WD for on road safety) and gets decent mileage.
[ February 23, 2006, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]
My interpretation is that the Honda AWD system splits torque front to rear by not only following a pre-programed regimen (more to the rear during acceleration for example) but that the VTM-4 senses the need to vary the torque front to rear BEFORE slippage.
I can't tell how the the VTM-4 rear differential adjusts torque to each rear wheel BEFORE slippage. It has that electric coil controlling the clutch engagement for each wheel so perhaps the individual rear wheel torque is regulated with that (there's no mention of ABS being used in the rear - is there a Honda engineer in the house??). Finally, the front wheel torque is distributed using the ABS braking system. If that's done before slippage it must be able to sense a torque differential between the wheels.
VTM-4 stands for Variable Torque Management to all four wheels.
So far, reading the ROC forum, the Ridgeline has held up well for its intended use and seems to have avoided much of the first year vehicle manufacturing bugs one might anticipate.
Be all that as it may, it is ugly and will not tow anything like a nice diesel or a big gaser for that matter. Nor, will it go rock hopping on the Rubicon. But, it holds five comfortably with excellent safety (the VTM-4 is way ahead of conventional 4WD for on road safety) and gets decent mileage.
[ February 23, 2006, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]
Them thar Honda engineers are sure smart. That 4WD system seems incredibly complex and prone to failure. However, the VTEC system seems like it would be impossible to work and it has shown to be very reliable.
This was previously posted in the general topics...
http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/11/pf/autos/autoshow_asia_trucks/
Japan gets serious about fun trucks
When it comes to work trucks, Americans buy American. So the Raider and Ridgeline are made for play.
....Honda officials are also quick to concede the Ridgeline isn't likely to be a professional contractor's pickup truck. Built on the same platform as the company's larger SUVs such as the Pilot and the Acura MDX, the truck is considered midsize but looks much smaller than even its SUV cousins, let alone competing midsize pickups. But it's the largest pickup Honda has any plans to offer, according to spokeswoman Sara Pines.
"We're looking at a type of person who has weekend needs of a pickup," said Pines. "It might not be doing heavy-duty construction needs every day. But it can tow 5,000 pounds, and it has half-ton cargo capacity. Still the most distinctive feature is the lockable trunk found underneath the bed near the rear of the truck.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/11/pf/autos/autoshow_asia_trucks/
Japan gets serious about fun trucks
When it comes to work trucks, Americans buy American. So the Raider and Ridgeline are made for play.
....Honda officials are also quick to concede the Ridgeline isn't likely to be a professional contractor's pickup truck. Built on the same platform as the company's larger SUVs such as the Pilot and the Acura MDX, the truck is considered midsize but looks much smaller than even its SUV cousins, let alone competing midsize pickups. But it's the largest pickup Honda has any plans to offer, according to spokeswoman Sara Pines.
"We're looking at a type of person who has weekend needs of a pickup," said Pines. "It might not be doing heavy-duty construction needs every day. But it can tow 5,000 pounds, and it has half-ton cargo capacity. Still the most distinctive feature is the lockable trunk found underneath the bed near the rear of the truck.
Originally Posted By: LarryL
If you tell a Ridgeline owner his ride is ugly, you might get slapped.
no, not too many who think it's a beauty queen. My 04 F150 was better looking than my Ridgeline, no contest.
However, just because I need a work truck doesn't mean I have to be slumming it in ancient body on frame technology.
If you tell a Ridgeline owner his ride is ugly, you might get slapped.
no, not too many who think it's a beauty queen. My 04 F150 was better looking than my Ridgeline, no contest.
However, just because I need a work truck doesn't mean I have to be slumming it in ancient body on frame technology.
Grave digger!
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