Honda Crank Bolt Tightening - comparing two methods

[The Critic]

Honda used to specify 181 ft lbs for the J series crank pulley bolts. Some time in the late 2000’s, they changed their position to 47 ft lbs + 60 degrees. No changes were made to the bolt or engine.

I think the 47 ft lb is just the initial torque to seat the crank pulley. According to my torque wrench, turning the bolt by 60 degrees resulted in a final torque of 153.5 ft lbs.

Which method is more accurate (or sufficient)?

 

[KneeGrinder]

That will make removing the crank pulley bolt a bit easier, thats the hardest part of replacing the timing belt. As I recall the older 4 cyl F 22, and F 23 motors were 181 Ft. lbs also.

I recall degree torque was said to be more accurate, but I have no clue!

 

[ctechbob]

That will make removing the crank pulley bolt a bit easier

HAHAHA Doubt it. I think Honda designed in some permanently locking molecules into the metal they used so that it instantly forms a bond with all metal around it.

I'm kidding of course. I have no idea which would be better. I just know they're @#$@ getting off most times.

 

[Motu]

Yeah, I reckon if you did them up finger tight, you still couldn't get it off after running for a year.

 

[mattd]

The lisle high mass socket takes the bolt off easily no matter how tight it is.

 

[Trav]

Honda used to specify 181 ft lbs for the J series crank pulley bolts. Some time in the late 2000’s, they changed their position to 47 ft lbs + 60 degrees. No changes were made to the bolt or engine.

I think the 47 ft lb is just the initial torque to seat the crank pulley. According to my torque wrench, turning the bolt by 60 degrees resulted in a final torque of 153.5 ft lbs.

View attachment 58690
Which method is more accurate (or sufficient)?

To be honest I don't mind frig myself anymore with these J engines I just tighten them to 160 lb.ft and be done with it.
I went through this game with 181 lb.ft then the angle business on a non TTY bolt, fact is after a while its tighter than a bulls touch hole in a hurricane anyway.

 

[The Critic]

The lisle high mass socket takes the bolt off easily no matter how tight it is.

Agreed.

To be honest I don't mind frig myself anymore with these J engines I just tighten them to 160 lb.ft and be done with it.
I went through this game with 181 lb.ft then the angle business on a non TTY bolt, fact is after a while its tighter than a bulls touch hole in a hurricane anyway.

I am more fascinated than concerned. I just thought it was interesting how the final torque measured from turning 60 degs falls below the prior spec of 181.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I just torqued the nuts on an upper A arm. They asked for spec torque plus 55 degrees. I never had anything as fancy as that electronic torque wrench so I made up the torque with a click torque wrench and gave it two Ugga Duggas as I pulled the wrench another 45 degrees or so.

 

[Chris142]

The lisle high mass socket takes the bolt off easily no matter how tight it is.

Not always. I have 2 name brand 1/2 impact guns and still can't get a Honda pulley off with that socket! I rounded the socket out on the last one. My IR261 takes them off easily.

 

[mattd]

I haven’t had a 1/2” impact that wouldn’t pull one off yet with that socket. Just my experience

 

[Timmastertech]

Not always. I have 2 name brand 1/2 impact guns and still can't get a Honda pulley off with that socket! I rounded the socket out on the last one. My IR261 takes them off easily.

Try the IR weighted sockets. I take Honda crank bolts out with the IR socket and my Ridgid cordless 1/2 gun

 

[SubLGT]

Torque-angle results in a more consistent clamping force. Does Honda specify what lube to use, and where to put it, when installing the bolt?

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/a-case-study-in-torque-angle-tightening.pdf

Fastening Threads: Torque Control vs. Angle Control

Angle control is a more fundamentally sound method of measuring the tension applied to a bolted joint.

www.assemblymag.com

 

[doublebase]

Watched a video on how to easily remove this bolt years ago from a guy out of Canada.

He simply applied heat to the edges of the bolt itself, claiming that by doing this it expands the bolt and allows it to loosen easier. And boy he was right. Never had a problem with these bolts since. After that...comes off easy with any air gun.

 

[The Critic]

Torque-angle results in a more consistent clamping force. Does Honda specify what lube to use, and where to put it, when installing the bolt?

https://www.boltscience.com/pages/a-case-study-in-torque-angle-tightening.pdf

Fastening Threads: Torque Control vs. Angle Control

Angle control is a more fundamentally sound method of measuring the tension applied to a bolted joint.

www.assemblymag.com

Yes, both sides of the washer.

Not always. I have 2 name brand 1/2 impact guns and still can't get a Honda pulley off with that socket! I rounded the socket out on the last one. My IR261 takes them off easily.

Try a 2235timax

 

[Trav]

Agreed.



I am more fascinated than concerned. I just thought it was interesting how the final torque measured from turning 60 degs falls below the prior spec of 181.

Exactly, I went through this some years ago that why I stopped thinking about it that is why I chose 16lb.ft. Either way it is more than tight enough.

 

[willbur]

Watched a video on how to easily remove this bolt years ago from a guy out of Canada.

He simply applied heat to the edges of the bolt itself, claiming that by doing this it expands the bolt and allows it to loosen easier. And boy he was right. Never had a problem with these bolts since. After that...comes off easy with any air gun.

"...expands the bolt and allows it to loosen easier"

Sounds counter intuitive. Wouldn't expanding the bolt make it tighter and harder to loosen?

 

[doublebase]

"...expands the bolt and allows it to loosen easier"

Sounds counter intuitive. Wouldn't expanding the bolt make it tighter and harder to loosen?

Exactly, but it works.

I don’t know...the guy explained it as...the bolt expands and inside those threads the bolt kind of breaks free from the tightness, maybe rust, I don’t know, but it works. It does something...it frees it up, it disturbs the bond between the bolt and crank just enough where you can put a socket on it and blast it off with an air gun.

If you’re looking at the bolt head, you heat up around the bolt parameter where the bolt has its washer. Not directly on the bolt head.

Not a lot of heat because you don’t want to damage the crank pulley itself, or oil seal...and of course you don’t want to damage the bolt because then you’d never get it out.

 

[RooflessVW]

"...expands the bolt and allows it to loosen easier"

Sounds counter intuitive. Wouldn't expanding the bolt make it tighter and harder to loosen?

Heat is expanding the bolt and the threads on the crank. The hole in the crank expands further than the bolt.

I would personally tighten a Honda crank bolt to 2.5 ugga-duggas.

 

[atikovi]

If you're doing this on jack stands, holding the pulley secure while trying to tighten the bolt with a torque wrench while laying on your back is next to impossible. I just put some Loctite on the bolt and use an impact to tighten. It's not like a cylinder head bolt.

 

[willbur]

Heat is expanding the bolt and the threads on the crank. The hole in the crank expands further than the bolt.

I would personally tighten a Honda crank bolt to 2.5 ugga-duggas.