Highest Zinc Oils?

Originally Posted by cknight49090
I haven't had a problem myself I just was asking so I would know how much redline to use if necessary to bring zinc up too 1200 ppm.I have seen a lot of cams being eaten and I can tell you it was from using the wrong oil and or improper break in wrong high pressure lube applied.These where flat tappet engines with higher lifts and spring pressure.

If you are seeing a lot of cams being eaten then that sounds more like a material failure or poor design than a problem with the oil. In what engines have you seen this and where?

Is this only during break-in of a new or rebuilt engine or later on during its lifetime? Is an assembly lube being used during build and a dedicated break-in oil?
 
Good questions and very good points kschachn ^^^^^^


Poor metallurgy or poor installation procedures are most likely the issue there...
 
The most common flat tappet failures I've seen in the last 10 years has been with people simply using the wrong valve springs. Valvetrain geometry has been the second most common reason. A lot of people don't fully research things before just slapping things together. Unfortunately, many online parts stores don't put out good information about their parts either. I've seen a lot of flat tappet failures from people using valve springs meant for a roller cam on their flat tappet cam. These springs would have 150+ lbs seat pressure and 400+ lbs open pressure which is just too much for flat tappets. The result is wiped cam lobes, no matter how much ZDDP you dump in there. Others try to be cheap and use OEM style springs with
Another factor is people putting a 50 grade oil in an engine with hydraulic lifters that can't support the bleed down of heavy oil at high rpm. The result is the lifter "over-pumping" at high rpm and pressure, essentially turning it into a solid lifter, causing it to beat the snot out of the cam lobe and rest of the valvetrain. I've seen failures from people using too much oil in the crankcase to the point the crankshaft is swimming it, whipping it up into a foamy mist, and highly aerated oil does no good in a hydraulic lifter.

The point is that extra ZDDP is a good thing to have with flat tappet cams. However, if the valvetrain isn't setup correctly, no amount of ZDDP is going to save it.
 
I think its a combo of not coating the cam with the correct lube. Not breaking in properly letting it run 25-30 mins straight varying the throttle at lower rpms 2000-2500 and probably the wrong oil or no additive.
 
Originally Posted by cknight49090
I haven't had a problem myself I just was asking so I would know how much redline to use if necessary to bring zinc up too 1200 ppm.I have seen a lot of cams being eaten and I can tell you it was from using the wrong oil and or improper break in wrong high pressure lube applied.These where flat tappet engines with higher lifts and spring pressure.

Sorry dude I kind of derailed your thread a bit.
I was always told gm break in additive from the dealer isn't a bad product either
 
its ok I really didn't gain anything I didn't already know.I like redline it will bring the ppm to 1200 in at least 2 or 3 doses depending on what the original oil is.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by cknight49090
That would be fine for warmer weather and its dino so I could use for break in but I wouldn't want to run that in everything that's why I asked for blends and full syns as well.Thanks again.

This statement is full of ignorant statements. It must be too much to ask if something could have been learned in better than a half decade as a member here.

He may have read too many stupid replies such as yours.
 
Originally Posted by cknight49090
its ok I really didn't gain anything I didn't already know.I like redline it will bring the ppm to 1200 in at least 2 or 3 doses depending on what the original oil is.


I had been using Redline Engine Oil Break In additive for a few years to boost the zddp of RT6 from 900-ish to 1300-ish in my 2001 Dodge Ram diesel. The dose I used was 2.66 oz per gallon. It seemed to be effective in reducing the Iron wear rate. Lately the Phos content of RT6 seems to have gone back up, so the dose I was using probably would be too much now.

But you can study my old UOA's if you're curious.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-delvac-1300-super-27k-miles#Post5161610
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by cknight49090
That would be fine for warmer weather and its dino so I could use for break in but I wouldn't want to run that in everything that's why I asked for blends and full syns as well.Thanks again.

This statement is full of ignorant statements. It must be too much to ask if something could have been learned in better than a half decade as a member here.

He may have read too many stupid replies such as yours.

There was nothing stupid about the quoted statement. Please feel free to add anything.
 
Sometimes people comment on things they disagree with, but fail to support their comment.
Makes it seem like a cheap shot.
On the other hand, if you can add to a post, that's a good thing.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Sometimes people comment on things they disagree with, but fail to support their comment.
Makes it seem like a cheap shot.
On the other hand, if you can add to a post, that's a good thing.



There really is not anything to add. First the OP is asking about zinc. Zinc by itself is nearly worthless in any IC oil. Second there was so many false generalizations in the OP's statements even if he/she did not read anything since joining the site a 5 minutes Google review would debunk this train of thought.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Sometimes people comment on things they disagree with, but fail to support their comment.
Makes it seem like a cheap shot.
On the other hand, if you can add to a post, that's a good thing.



There really is not anything to add. First the OP is asking about zinc. Zinc by itself is nearly worthless in any IC oil. Second there was so many false generalizations in the OP's statements even if he/she did not read anything since joining the site a 5 minutes Google review would debunk this train of thought.

It is unfortunate your way of adding to a topic is to criticize and basically insult his intelligence. Your reply added nothing to the conversation as does mine replying to you Dave. It's time to move on.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dave1251

There really is not anything to add. First the OP is asking about zinc. Zinc by itself is nearly worthless in any IC oil.


I think you are stating the zinc is nearly worthless in any internal combustion oil.
If so, this is 100% wrong.
Zinc is a sacrificial material that is critical in flat tappet engines, especially with increased valve spring pressures.

As an owner of 2 1960s classic cars, both with their original engines (with flat tappets), zinc is important.
I also work with friends with their flat tappet V8s that benefit from the proper oils.
 
Last edited:
I think what dave1251 meant that Zinc alone does not do much, which is correct, one thing is Zinc and another is ZDDP, Zinc and Phsophorous work together, either of them by themselves don't do much.
 
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
I think what dave1251 meant that Zinc alone does not do much, which is correct, one thing is Zinc and another is ZDDP, Zinc and Phsophorous work together, either of them by themselves don't do much.

Except that's not what he posted.
 
To be honest I just wanted some opinions ,I have been on here for years and gotten in trouble at least twice if you know what I mean .For responding to people like that.I know about boutique oils that's not what I wanted to know.I wanted to know the best bang for the buck oils that I could supplement with just a little redline to get to the supposed magic 1200 ppm.I primarily run flat tappet sbc with around 500 lift. I use dino only for break in with no syn assembly lubes. then depending on how much money I have in the rotating assy usually run M1 0w40 with a couple ounces of redline.One of the local techs who works at a stealership was on lunch he wanted to use our bay. He came in and was putting lucas in the trans it took about 30 mins to empty the bottle lol.I tried to explain to him that trans fluid was around 10w and he just put 200w in I asked him do you think that lucas is going to help?They where trying to argue this and that i just shook my head.We can only try to help the truly ignorant ones like ones who think MMO does anything or even techron or sea foam.
 
I would not play chemist.
The camshaft lift is not the key property; valve spring pressure is.
Stock type pressures seem to get along fine with 10w30 oils.
Above that, I highly suggest you check the link I posted earlier.
The early gen Corvette crowd has done significant arguing, I mean research, about this topic.
Also, while oils like Shell Rotella T 15w40 used to be a good choice, things have changed.

Good luck.
 
I agree and thanks I have read all those threads. Most of the engines I deal with have higher spring pressure. I always try to use the least amount of spring pressure possible.I only add a small amount of redline 3-4 oz if that.
 
Originally Posted by cknight49090
Your not supposed to use blends or full syns for any kind of break in.I am sure car manufactures do it but that's what the engine builders say.I have no interest in paying 7 8 bucks a quart that I am going to run for 500 miles.


I'm not sure if your 500 mile reference is to break-in oil or to annual oil changes on a low mileage car.

In either case, consider this...

A camshaft, depending on specific application(both engine type and intended use), is usually $300 at the low end and goes on up from there.

A full engine tear-down and rebuild is well into 4 figures.

Is it going to kill you to dump $40 worth of oil after 500 miles on a fresh rebuild to ensure that the engine has a long life?

Similarly, if you're referring to annual oil changes or some other interval where you're only getting 500 miles, is $40 really a big price to pay to avoid wiping a cam and all the issues that come with it? I know if I lost a lobe, I'd want at least a partial tear-down rather than just tossing a new cam in, so to me the cost of killing a cam is a lot more than just the cost of the cam.

I will be doing a new flat tappet cam in a few weeks. I'm not doing anything crazy-just a bit more lift than the stock cam and backed up by fresh stock springs-but you'd better believe I'm going to use a proper high ZDDP break-in oil for 30 minutes, dump it, and follow up with VR-1 as I normally use.

BTW, I don't think twice about running 20W-50 in sub freezing temperatures
smile.gif
 
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