Higher speeds, heavier oils?

[David_Corbett]

I am informed that one of the reasons that we tend to user lighter oils in North America than Europe is because our highway speeds are markedly lower. There's no need to have oil designed with the same levels of HTHS viscosity, the thought goes, because we simply aren't going to be maintaining speeds of 140mph+ for extended periods of time.

This makes sense to me, as the engine would be putting out vastly more output (and thus heat) at higher RPMs and presumably higher temperatures and tougher shear conditions.

I have also, however, heard that some Toyota owners' manuals specify XW30 oil rather than XW20 if a significant amount of highway driving is done. (I have not personally seen this specification.) I'm now wondering if they might be on to something.

My question is as follows: I drive a 2013 Honda Accord V6, and frequently go at around 80-85mph for extended periods of time. My car normally specs 0W-20 and does not specify a requirement for heavier oil at higher speeds. Does anyone know if the J35Y1 specifies a heavier oil in any other market?

Am I getting anywhere near where it would make any sense to start looking for a more robust oil? I don't live in a particularly hot climate, but I suppose my car might see about 100 degrees rarely. (About as likely as -40, though obviously not on the same day!) Nothing hotter than that, though. I just want to make sure that I have the correct protection for extreme cases, like going on an extended uphill at 90mph with a full load on a hot day with the air conditioning on.

Sorry for being so neurotic about this, but I suppose I would hardly be alone here in worrying overmuch about oil weights.

 

[HerrStig]

If you are concerned about high speed and hot weather the Australian spec for the car might be worth looking at, if you can find it. Toyota specs for OZ are usually higher viz oil.

 

[TheOnlySarge]

Come on down to Texas and open it up. Get out to West Texas/Central Texas and your on the Texas Autobahn

Dallas to San Antonio is like London-Glasgow and back!
I lived in the UK for years....Europe embraced the extended drain long before we did and from living there and "talking cars" I believe they still embrace the thicker for extended OCI runs mentality and it has nothing to do with bearing clearance, Driving habits etc. etc.
Of course you and I know that todays oils do not shear anything like they did 15-20 years ago.

 

[Kuato]

I've seen several Toyota OMs, and they do say that for towing, mountains, high speed, high altitude, hot temps that a higher viscosity oil is required for sufficient protection. I think it's intentionally vague, but since the same engines are using 40- and 50-weight oils in other parts of the world there is no issue with higher viscosities and sufficient oiling.

There will probably be lots of commentary on this, but IMO it will not hurt to step up to a 30-weight oil. I wasn't able to locate a European/Australian/Asian Honda owner's manual for you.

 

[HemiHawk]

Sounds like you're really movin!

Like HerrStig said, some vehicles have different weights spec'd for Australian cars, where temps are usually higher. I know my Mustang is spec'd for 5w20, but in EU, and Australia 5w30 is the recommended weight.

Either way I would be sure to use a quality synthetic oil with that kind of driving. Also, check your owners manual but I bet that kind of driving falls under "severe" driving, where you would need more frequent oil changes (maybe 5000 miles vs 7500).

The oil life monitor on my 2008 Civic Si seemed pretty decent, the book listed 7500 miles, but with my driving the oil life monitor usually got around 10% near 5,000 miles.


EDIT: also, what kind of RPM does your engine turn at those speeds? if it has a tall 6th gear, going 85 with cruise on may not even be all that tough on the motor.

 

[David_Corbett]

Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Sounds like you're really movin!


Such speeds are not uncommon on some of the flatter, straighter, less crowded highways in the prairies or in some other places, such as the Coquihalla highway passing through British Columbia, when the conditions are good and the roads aren't too crowded. I expect that they would be unconscionable in Ontario, though!

(Time was, the hill heading up to the Coquihalla past Kamloops, BC tended to be littered with cars whose cooling systems had failed them on hot days.)

EDIT: Uh, maybe 2400-2600rpm?

 

[CATERHAM]

Hi David_Corbett,

Cruising at 80-85 mph is certainly not fast and your engine doesn't have to work hard at all to maintain that speed. The 0W-20 spec'd for your car is more than up to the task regardless of the ambient temp's.

BTW, IMO the best deal (and best oil) in a 0W-20 for your car is the Mobil made Toyota Brand 0W-20 available at any Toyota/Lexus dealership. It's cheaper than the Honda 0W-20.

 

[Lolvoguy]

80-85 on the Coquihalla is rather conservative in that stretch. When travelling through that area many cars (including myself) were pushing 85-90 which seemed crazy on most other roads, but even then, we were being passed by other motorists. No cops were around and usually don't seem to ticket

As for Alberta and Sask, those places are notorious for catching speeders, especially between the Alberta and Moose Jaw area. So be VERY careful, especially this time of year

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I would have no problem running at 90 all day in my Focus with 0w-20 in the engine. In Texas heat. That would be >300RPM all day.

I wouldn't want to tow my Popup, however. I don't think the 4.80-8 tires rated for 55mph would like going 90 on hot asphault for too long.

But, if the popup had proper tires , I would tow that in texas heat with 0w-20 !

 

[CT8]

the reason we have thinner oils is because of the EPAs CAFE standards. Then there doesn't seem to be scores of engine failures from the 20wts. Probably the oil pressure and temps would need to be monitored to get more than opinion.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
80-85 on the Coquihalla is rather conservative in that stretch. When travelling through that area many cars (including myself) were pushing 85-90 which seemed crazy on most other roads, but even then, we were being passed by other motorists. No cops were around and usually don't seem to ticket

As for Alberta and Sask, those places are notorious for catching speeders, especially between the Alberta and Moose Jaw area. So be VERY careful, especially this time of year

I switched to 5W30 in the CRV this spring just for some towing and to run a long OCI. IMO there's certainly no reason not to go up a grade if you are going to run your car harder than the average. On the flip side, for most cars and most situations 5W20 is totally fine too.
If you are running 85mph up a long grade, I'd say that's the equivalent to towing something at 60 mph on the flats, and it wouldn't hurt to run 5W30, but probably isn't necessary either, but without temperature data we are all just guessing anyways.

 

[CATERHAM]

Even some of the most ardent heavier oil grade advocates of the past are coming around to the fact that it simply is not necessary from a lubrication perspective, to run anything heavier than the lightest oil recommended in a late model car. The reason is all cars today have electronic safety management systems in place to protect the engine if the oil or coolant gets too hot.

A non lubrication reason one might want to run a heavier oil under constant extreme use such as very high speed driving and high rev's (that's well in excess of 100 mph)is to reduce oil consumption or towing a heavy trailer in a mountainous region where lots of WOT is used.
But remember a heavier oil will increase oil temp's which could trigger the safety systems that roll back engine power sooner than they would otherwise on the spec' oil.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Even some of the most ardent heavier oil grade advocates of the past are coming around to the fact that it simply is not necessary from a lubrication perspective, to run anything heavier than the lightest oil recommended in a late model car. The reason is all cars today have electronic safety management systems in place to protect the engine if the oil or coolant gets too hot.

A non lubrication reason one might want to run a heavier oil under constant extreme use such as very high speed driving and high rev's (that's well in excess of 100 mph)is to reduce oil consumption or towing a heavy trailer in a mountainous region where lots of WOT is used.
But remember a heavier oil will increase oil temp's which could trigger the safety systems that roll back engine power sooner than they would otherwise on the spec' oil.


Does using heavier than spec oil in a rear diff result in higher diff temps?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: David_Corbett
I am informed that one of the reasons that we tend to user lighter oils in North America than Europe is because our highway speeds are markedly lower.


I gotta laugh every time I see this and then drive past the hundreds of miles of "Speed limit 80" signs on I-10.

The autobahn may not have a speed limit, but in practice you can't sustain speed anywhere near as long there as you can on US interstates. Its possible to run 10-12 hours with nothing but fuel and bladder breaks at 80-85 MPH, just in Texas alone. In triple-digit ambient temps over much of that in summer. And people are out there doing it all day.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

The autobahn may not have a speed limit, but in practice you can't sustain speed anywhere near as long there as you can on US interstates.


This is true, but there are spots where you can do well over 150mph (I've seen videos of E39 M5's ranging between 150-190mph for extended jaunts) which drives up oil temperature both dramatically and quickly

 

[JHZR2]

Let's answer these first:

1) Do you consume any oil in your "high speed" use?

2) How high does your engine rev at your speeds? (a recent BMW 530D did only around 2000 RPM at 100+ MPH on the Autobahn).

3) Does UOA indicate any excessive dilution, shear out of grade, or abnormal wear metals from your use?

From there we can see..

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Let's answer these first:

1) Do you consume any oil in your "high speed" use?

2) How high does your engine rev at your speeds? (a recent BMW 530D did only around 2000 RPM at 100+ MPH on the Autobahn).

3) Does UOA indicate any excessive dilution, shear out of grade, or abnormal wear metals from your use?

From there we can see..


Excellent questions.

My car in 6th gear (small 2.0L 4ycl) only turns 3k rpms at 85mph. I don't consider that severe at all.

 

[KrisZ]

3k RPM at partial throttle is nothing. Sustained 3K RPM at 3/4-full throttle, now that will stress the oil out.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Most commuter cars have more than enough power to cruise at higher speeds all day long. It's hard to imagine high speed commuting is much stress on a good quality oil of the correct spec that is changed at some kind of reasonable interval.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: David_Corbett
I am informed that one of the reasons that we tend to user lighter oils in North America than Europe is because our highway speeds are markedly lower.


I gotta laugh every time I see this and then drive past the hundreds of miles of "Speed limit 80" signs on I-10.

The autobahn may not have a speed limit, but in practice you can't sustain speed anywhere near as long there as you can on US interstates. Its possible to run 10-12 hours with nothing but fuel and bladder breaks at 80-85 MPH, just in Texas alone. In triple-digit ambient temps over much of that in summer. And people are out there doing it all day.


Engine temperatures will peak after much less than one hours driving. 2, 3 or 10 hours makes no differance. Unless you are running out of oil!

The coquihalla is interesting because of the speed and the grade. The speeds may not be that fast (mainly sub 100mph) but many drivers are 'pedal to the metal' or close to it.

I remember driving a Ford 5 ton up there flat out PttM and my partner jumped out of the cab!
We were doing about 7 mph and he wanted to streach his legs.

Yes, that road killed a lot of engines.