Heavier oil weights in hot climates??

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Yep, I've seen that one, albeit the 2011 version, if I recall correctly. Heck, they even have a bit of a guide to choosing viscosity based upon ambient, with the warning to pay attention to what the manufacturer actually recommends. I like how they recommend 15w40 down to -25 C. I thought the Audi chart stretched the issue a bit.

I suspect an SAE 20 or 20w-20 would be extremely hard to find these days.
wink.gif
 
During yesterday's hockey intermission, I was channel surfing and ended up on Mecum's Auction in time to see a '69 Mustang Boss 429 roll up on the block.

One of the commentators gave a history lesson saying that Ford engineers took the car to Texas for hot weather durability testing. It was discovered they had an engine (coolant) overheating problem. After various attempts changing out the obvious, they installed an oil cooler. The oil cooler fixed the engine overheating problem well enough that the car was able to be put in production.

One example how ambient temperatures, oil temperature, and engine coolant are correlated.
 
That's one of the reasons I tried 0W-40 in my 15 y/o vehicle specifying 10w30 for 0F and above. I figured today's M1 0W-40 is most likely lighter than a conventional 10w30 15 years ago. My gauge seems to agree.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
My point was that although they were 20s, they weren't 2.6 HTHS 20s, like the 30s were 3.5 back in those days.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
My point was that although they were 20s, they weren't 2.6 HTHS 20s, like the 30s were 3.5 back in those days.

No, but as you point out, it's still a 20 grade, just like Delvac 1 LE 5w30 is still a 5w30, despite its HTHS of 3.5 or greater. Darned annoying grading system.

I've talked about how VI has increased over the years, notably as we've gone from straight grades to multigrades. It's also interesting to see how the HTHS of grades has essentially split, too. The ILSAC rated 30s skirt the lower end, whereas the HDEO 30s are obviously at the upper limits.

As I've mentioned before, I remember, vividly, the time I put SAE 30 into a garden tractor in my youth. I just about got my hide tanned, and the only thing that saved me was that I could point out in the manual that it met the viscosity and API specifications, and that at least I got rid of something he was never going to use anyhow. He hated monogrades, and thick oil in general. :P He's rolling over in his grave with my use of 5w-40, I'm sure.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The way I see it, thicker weights aid consumption.. not offer better protection in heat. Am I correct?


Thicker weights do a lot more than just reduce consumption, they also lubricate better. Oils get thinner and thinner as they get hotter. You get 5W-20 up to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, you don't have much of a film left.


Pffffft. My charger operates at 213f on 20 grades and the hemi has proven itself to run 300000+ miles at that oil temp.
According to your logic they should have dissolved.

You don't have even a moderate clue.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Pffffft. My charger operates at 213f on 20 grades and the hemi has proven itself to run 300000+ miles at that oil temp.
According to your logic they should have dissolved.

You don't have even a moderate clue.


Originally Posted By: Clevy
I too am happy with the 40 grade in my charger. I beat this car now that it's warmer and I've got sticky tires on and I saw oil temps of 265f yesterday while enjoying this cars ability to stick me to my seat.
I'm sure a 20 grade syn if today's quality would handle those temps but just how thick is the oil film,I can't say for sure.
I can say I'm getting 28mpg on the highway now that summer fuel is back so I'm not noticing an mpg hit anyway.
Winter I stick with the prescribed 20 grade in this car because I'm not driving it to the limit,whereas once the tires will stick I'm hard on it.


Originally Posted By: Clevy
Agreed.
I used to think basestocks made the oil,today I know better.
I've got and am using the Belgian 40 grade in my charger right now. This car runs so much smoother on a 40 grade over the specified 20 grade.
I suppose my driving habits contribute to that smoothness too


Quote:
The 0w-40 meets the Porsche spec and is equal to m1 0w-40 as far as the specs it meets.
I used it I'm my charger and thus far has been my favorite.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I might be the minority here but I don't feel there's a one size fits all when it comes to engine oil. How the engine is operated,ambient temps as well as usage should all be considered when deciding on what grade oil is chosen.
A vehicle operated in the winter,short tripped and mainly acquires city miles will require something different than the same vehicle operated in the desert pulling a trailer.
For instance my charger gets 5w-20 in the winter for obvious reasons but once warmer ambient temps arrive I prefer a 0w-40 because I'll be driving it harder,oil temps will increase and stay elevated because of how I'm driving it.
A 5w-20 is fine at oil temps of 200f however at 260f I'm more comfortable with a 0w-40 in the sump.
I don't feel that one size does for all,maybe most,but not all


Originally Posted By: Clevy
Great write up.

K. I've got a few questions,maybe you can help.
My charger at 70mph runs at an oil temp of 213f with 5w-20 oil. I've tried 2 different brands of 5w-20 and both exhibited the exact same temps.
I changed the oil to a 0w-40. Later that afternoon I went to the city and at 70mph steady cruising(35 miles commute,all highway) my oil temps would not get hotter than 190f.
Why did the 40 grade run cooler,and significantly cooler at that. I thought that thicker oils would hold more heat because it takes longer to dissipate.

Any ideas.
 
Merk, none of those points mean a 0w-20 or a 5w-20 is a problem where specified. People can choose to run whatever they want. Clevy is running something different out of smoothness. I'm running something different simply because I had it around.

Heck. A Prius will run just fine on an SAE 40 in the summer. It might also be very smooth and very quiet, and perhaps someone got the lube for free. Those reasons don't make it the best lube or the lube of choice, though, either, nor do they negate the manufacturer's specification.
 
Garak - if he thinks 5W-20 is fine to run at higher ambient temps, then why's he running the 0W-40 ?

Clevy - I didn't even have to come up with an argument, I used your own words against you.
laugh.gif
 
Like I said, he can, and that's really good enough. Everyone has their reasons. If Clevy believes it makes his engine smoother, then you're the last person that should take him to task, since you like engine smoothness. I can't say a word about the issue, because I, at least in my experience, have never been able to tell the difference unless something was a really, really out of the specified viscosity range.

He didn't say he must use it. When his current stash is out, maybe he'll find M1 0w-20 on sale. When mine is out, maybe I'll go back to the normal 5w30, or try a 0w-30, or stick with the 5w-40. Of course, I could get away with SAE 30, but the odds of me trying that are slim to none.
wink.gif


The real point is that modern multigrades don't necessitate going heavier in the summer and lighter in the winter. He could use 0w-40 all year, or the specified 5w-20, or 0w-20. I went 5w-40 all winter, which is heavier than the 5w30. You don't have to choose thicker (or a lower VI) in the heat. The ambient temperatures give you that freedom, but modern oils give you the freedom to bypass that choice altogether.
 
from real experience, girlfriends new 13 malibu 2.5 DI engine. first change at 1,000 miles down a little, put in dexos I 5-20 as recommended, a semi-synthetic by the way, by 3,000 on that oil added a qt in half qt intervals, by 4,000 down another half qt or so, dumped the [censored] water at 5,000 on the clock. put in a PAO 5-30 real synthetic, now at 12,000 on the clock, no oil needed!!! also those with DI engines where is that burnt oil going, prolly contributing to the crudded valve stems common with DI engines. only reasoning for 20 wt oils is EPA MPG as stated, manufacturers care less after warranty is gone, hers 100,000 but only 5 years with will happen first!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Two things.

1) It doesn't get all that hot in Florida.

2) 20wt oils perform very well in all air temps.



This is true. The temperatures that oils are tested at are not going to be exceeded in the lower 48. Now, if you plan to drive Antarctica in winter, or are planning a trip to Mercury, you may need to change to something other than what your manufacturer recommends. But your warranty is likely voided by extra-planetary usage anyway.
The engineers who design these engines and issue these specs are a lot more knowledgeable than most of us. Trust them, and if they are wrong, you know just who to blame.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Garak - if he thinks 5W-20 is fine to run at higher ambient temps, then why's he running the 0W-40 ?

Clevy - I didn't even have to come up with an argument, I used your own words against you.
laugh.gif




When you cherry pick comments its easy to do isn't it.
Post the entire comment,where I state I use a thicker oil in the summer based on how I drive the car and has nothing to do with ambient temps.

So I'll re-iterate so ole merk there won't get confused:
In the winter I use 5w-20 in my charger because I don't drive the car hard enough to achieve oil temps greater than 220f,but in the summer I drive the car substantially harder which elevates the oil temps in excess of 256f,which is why I use a thicker oil,because of how I operate the vehicle.
Got anything else you wanna try use against me so I can help you re-insert the size 12 into your mouth.
Amusing.
 
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