Has PAO % of Mobil 1 0W20 EP been Reduced?

[Best F100]

I have been a user of Mobil 1 0W20 EP for a number of years. First, in a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, taken to just under 210,000 miles (without issues). Now, with a 2022 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Same 2.5L engine, both vehicles. 45-49 mpg in the Maverick in 70% city driving.

I may be mistaken, but the SDS sheet for Mobil 1 0W20 EP USED to list something like, 1 Decene, homopolymer hydrogenated 60-
Now, the SDS sheet, with a revision date of June 14, 2022, says 1 Decene, Tetramer and Trimer Hydrogenated 20-< 30%. Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic 50-
Is it a fair conclusion that this is no longer a predominantly PAO product? I note that the - 54C pour point and the 235C flash point remains unchanged. Rating out to 20,000 miles remains unchanged.

My only reason for concern, is if this product is no longer the “screaming value deal” it once was. (Costly PAO content/ high performance/ for little money). Have the accountants obtained the upper hand over the engineering and oil formulation team? Would you stick with this product, if you were me? If not, what is a better 0W20 option, going forward?

 

[Cujet]

I don't think we will ever really know what formulation they use at any given time. I will say that M1's products do tend to be the easy choice for superb performance. All of my vehicles have high miles and run perfectly, are internally clean and don't consume oil, even the silly Jaguar X-Type which is known to destroy rod bearings has been trouble free, while the rest of the Jag fleet is in the scrapyard. I no longer worry about how the oil is made and simply trust Mobil 1 products, as 40 years of great results is a pretty good track record.

Of course, there are those who don't change oil frequently enough, choose an improper viscosity for their situation or choose sub standard products, and it is no surprise when they have issues. If one drives an Ecoboost 3.5L and expects long timing chain life, it might be good to stick to M1 and 5000 mile OCI's, a known way to get 400K miles. Or take your chances with generic 5W-30 and 10,000+ mile changes.

Just a note about turbochargers, oil rings and coking. M1, seemingly regardless of viscosity or formulation, will not internally coke up turbochargers or oil ring drain holes. Mobil does a good job ensuring the oil has high thermal stability.

 

[wpod]

There are better base oils to use in blends. All base oils have their advantages . I was able to talk to a Chevron Engineer because the corporation worked for use lots of Chevron oil and the Engineer told me every base oil has its + and - and paos have higher valve train wear that other base oils. That said there is a reason todays oils are a blend to achieve a certain spec at the lowest possible cost.
Unless you go to the Boutique brands.

 

[FTTSHO]

They also completely removed "PAO" from EP 5w30 SDS earlier this month. Nobody can really tell us why, or what made M1 remove or even lower the concentration of PAO on their SDS's.

Of course, we will never know the all of the actual ingredients or the concentration of each ingredients that goes into motor oils but it's just peculiar that they would completely remove or even reduce the amount of PAO that is listed on their SDS. It's all "proprietary trade secret". SDS just gives us the consumers a basic "glimpse" of the oil.

Here's what Mobil 1 says on all their SDS's:
"As per paragraph (i) of 29 CFR 1910.1200, formulation is considered a trade secret and specific chemical identity and
exact percentage (concentration) of composition may have been withheld. Specific chemical identity and exact percentage composition will be provided to health professionals, employees, or designated representatives in accordance with applicable provisions of paragraph (I)."

It basically means they will only disclose the things they want to disclose or have to disclose by law.
Many SDS's state something along the lines of "Some information may have been withheld."

I actually started a thread similar to this about a week ago about the EP 5w30 not listing any PAO on its SDS anymore. It's just peculiar to me.

Now we wait till people leave comments like: "I won't buy M1 EP 0w20 anymore. I thought it was the holy grail of 0w20's, but not anymore. Screw Mobil 1. They are cheating us."

 

[kschachn]

It basically means they will only disclose the things they want to disclose or have to disclose by law.
Many SDS's state something along the lines of "Some information may have been withheld."

Well they are continuing to list the licenses, specifications and approvals the oils hold, so you do have that. ExxonMobil is one of the best for making it clear on those. As someone who wrote SDS for a living back in the day I'm not sure I would use any of them in a purchasing decision.

ExxonMobil isn't cheating me when I buy a VW 504 00 oil from them.

 

[Bill_W]

There are better base oils to use in blends. All base oils have their advantages . I was able to talk to a Chevron Engineer because the corporation worked for use lots of Chevron oil and the Engineer told me every base oil has its + and - and paos have higher valve train wear that other base oils. That said there is a reason todays oils are a blend to achieve a certain spec at the lowest possible cost.
Unless you go to the Boutique brands.

Shell Pearl has been on line for 10 years making GTL. Hard to compete when the price of PAO goes up and GTL becomes a endless supply with the capitol investment has been paid for. Bintulu plant in Malaysia also feeds the GTL market.

Pearl GTL - overview | Shell Global

Pearl GTL is the crown jewel in the Shell-Qatar Petroleum partnership and one of the most complex and challenging energy projects ever commissioned. It is the world’s largest source of gas-to-liquids (GTL) products.

www.shell.com

 

[RaRa]

Mobil 1 removing poa because shortage or higher cost poa all msds you will see updates soon ( my guess) because they can blend oil for performance certification without any poa constraints.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have been a user of Mobil 1 0W20 EP for a number of years. First, in a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, taken to just under 210,000 miles (without issues). Now, with a 2022 Ford Maverick Hybrid. Same 2.5L engine, both vehicles. 45-49 mpg in the Maverick in 70% city driving.

I may be mistaken, but the SDS sheet for Mobil 1 0W20 EP USED to list something like, 1 Decene, homopolymer hydrogenated 60-
Now, the SDS sheet, with a revision date of June 14, 2022, says 1 Decene, Tetramer and Trimer Hydrogenated 20-< 30%. Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic 50-
Is it a fair conclusion that this is no longer a predominantly PAO product? I note that the - 54C pour point and the 235C flash point remains unchanged. Rating out to 20,000 miles remains unchanged.

My only reason for concern, is if this product is no longer the “screaming value deal” it once was. (Costly PAO content/ high performance/ for little money). Have the accountants obtained the upper hand over the engineering and oil formulation team? Would you stick with this product, if you were me? If not, what is a better 0W20 option, going forward?

I would take this as affirmation that yes, they've significantly reduced PAO down to the 20-30% range now and replaced it with Group III. Glad I stocked up when I did.

 

[CleanSump]

I used to think PAO was everything. Time here at BITOG has provided an education and I now know that the total formulation, not necessarily how much PAO is in the base oil, and the specifications/approvals the oil meets are far more important than whether it's PAO, GTL, or current Group III base.
So for the price, Mobil 1 is still a good value.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

it should be noted that 1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED isn't the only PAO Mobil uses, but yeah it sort of sucks...

 

[gregk24]

This is the reason I switched to EP on the Accord. May go back to regular M1 after this OCI. Both are solid oils.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

What a great analogy.

 

[travis8352]

I wonder if this change is for the dexos 1 gen 3 version of this oil. I wonder of the revision number is changed for the m1ep jugs and bottles. The dexos gen 2 quarts of m1 ep 5w30 and m1 ep 0w20 both have the same revision number of 5888 so my guess is the revision number wont change unless the formulation is different for dexos 1 gen 3

 

[buster]

I used to think PAO was everything. Time here at BITOG has provided an education and I now know that the total formulation, not necessarily how much PAO is in the base oil, and the specifications/approvals the oil meets are far more important than whether it's PAO, GTL, or current Group III base.
So for the price, Mobil 1 is still a good value.

I feel the same.

Based on the msds of June 2022, it does appear EP 0w20 contains a bit more Group III than IV in its formulation, or at the very least some amount of III.

 

[OVERKILL]

I feel the same.

Based on the msds of June 2022, it does appear EP 0w20 contains a bit more Group III than IV in its formulation, or at the very least some amount of III.

It's a lot more Group III, almost as high as the percentage of PAO listed in the previous revision.

 

[travis8352]

Th

It's a lot more Group III, almost as high as the percentage of PAO listed in the previous revision.
View attachment 104347

This must be for dexos 1 gen 3/triple action formula as it now lists moly on the msds. They started listing moly and the one uoa posted of triple action showed 100 ppm moly

 

[OVERKILL]

Th

This must be for dexos 1 gen 3/triple action formula as it now lists moly on the msds. They started listing moly and the one uoa posted of triple action showed 100 ppm moly

Yes, but it has always had some (we assume tri-nuclear) moly in it.

Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 1970 miles 2020 Subaru Outback XT

Vehicle: 2020 Subaru Outback Limited XT (2.4l turbo) Miles on vehicle/engine: 8747 Miles / time on oil change interval: 1970 miles / 6 months Motor oil used: Mobil 1 EP 100% 0w-20 Oil filter used Subaru OEM

bobistheoilguy.com

They may have increased it of course.

 

[PimTac]

It's a lot more Group III, almost as high as the percentage of PAO listed in the previous revision.
View attachment 104347

The thing that jumps out at me is that listing for Organo Moly-Sulfur Complex with the CAS number listed as confidential.

 

[CentAmDL650]

The SDS may or may not be telling the truth about the range of content percentages. No guarantees there.

The reason, if the percentage of PAO decreased in the latest iteration of M1 EP's may be because of the Dec. 23rd 2021 explosion and fire at the Baytown, TX refinery, where a substantial amount of their PAO production originates from. If that production is still waiting to come back online, XOM may have to honor contracts with their customers who buy PAO and reduce amounts in their output. So, simply a case of force majeure, no hidden agenda or subversive conspiracy?

 

[travis8352]

Yes, but it has always had some (we assume tri-nuclear) moly in it.

Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 1970 miles 2020 Subaru Outback XT

Vehicle: 2020 Subaru Outback Limited XT (2.4l turbo) Miles on vehicle/engine: 8747 Miles / time on oil change interval: 1970 miles / 6 months Motor oil used: Mobil 1 EP 100% 0w-20 Oil filter used Subaru OEM

bobistheoilguy.com

They may have increased it of course.

Yes but it seems the only time exxon mobil lists moly is when there is a high concentration like their racing oils being listed i believe as 1-2.5% and now these new triple action pds are being listed as 0.1-1% organo moly sulfur. Maybe at 100 ppm and they list moly since before its always been 80. If thats the case then we will know if the revision number changes when we see triple action m1ep jugs and bottles. Ive only seen AFE, vanilla m1, m1 hm and m1 ep hm as triple action or triple action +power