GM LIM gasket: Two more questions

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My dad has a LIM gasket leak causing coolant into the oil, confirmed by UOA and coolant loss(though relatively very slow currently). 4.3L 2001 s10

I looked at FelPro's 'perma dry' kit before, but will try to find an aluminum of sorts for when he finally gets this done.

He has considered adding some form of coolant stop-leak over this small leak that could risk engine overheating on a truck that is due for cooling system service as it is...ugh!!!

/endofrant
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
Oh yeah, one more thing. I assume I should use some threadlocker on the manifold bolts -- any specific recommendations?


When I did the L-I-M on my Buick 3.1 they actually recommended that you purchase brand new bolts..I did and also added a drop or two of Permatex blue to the threadlocker that was already on the bolt.

I hope GM has fired the engineer that was in charge of gaskets in the early 2000's....
 
I got some http://permatex.com/products/Automotive/...ead_Sealant.htm for the threads which I think is closest to what the book I have recommends.

RockAuto lists the same Felpro part number as what I've got. I just talked to a local GM dealer and he couldn't tell me whether the Delco ones are plastic or aluminum w/out ordering one (none in stock) but it's possible the 7.4 never got an aluminum replacement (unless someone can contradict that). I wouldn't be too surprised if the Delco one is the exact same as the Felpro one anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm


I hope GM has fired the engineer that was in charge of gaskets in the early 2000's....


Would have to guesstimate the engineers had a better gasket but the bean counters demanded the cheap one.

They had issues for years and years that they were fixing under warranty but still didn't feel the cost/benefit would work out actually improving the gasket.
 
Isn't it great when the bean counters run (ruin) the company?

It should be very obvious now that Ford is starting to use Dex that the whole thing is really a gasket issue, not a coolant issue.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Isn't it great when the bean counters run (ruin) the company?

It should be very obvious now that Ford is starting to use Dex that the whole thing is really a gasket issue, not a coolant issue.


Yeah really, the bean counters cost the company money in warranty, reputation and sales. But that's just like a bean counter to not see the forest for the trees.
 
Confirmed this gasket is plastic with rubber port borders and metal inserts on the bolt holes:

IMG_20120404_192140.jpg


It *is* different from the OEM one as pictured in the original post -- or at the very least it's a different color.

Same Felpro part number everywhere though so I'm inclined to believe it's the "best" one available. I suppose there's an off chance the AC Delco one is different but unless someone has specific knowledge of that (specifically for the 7.4), I doubt it. Pretty sure this is the one I'm putting in this weekend.
 
The steel framed gaskets will have a "T" after he number. So your set should be something like a MS95826 and the steel framed gaskets will be MS95826T.
 
In that case, I think I'm safe. No google search results for MS95826T except this thread. Thanks for the info.

EDIT: Felpro's online catalog at http://fme-cat.com/ (which for some reason I didn't find the other day) lists only one part for this application too, and it's the MS 95826 number.
 
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That's some kit... what's the big square-shaped gasket in the second row of the picture? I have noticed that some of the LIM gaskets are much "sparser" than the ones on the 7.4.. The pictured ones for the 4.3 seem to be a lot more "cut out" than the big blocks' are. Not sure if that's related to why there's apparently no "T" gasket for the 7.4.

I'd probably get the bolts from a dealership assuming they aren't ridiculously expensive, but I'm lazy that way. I was planning on re-using mine since I haven't read anything saying they should be replaced. I've already cleaned them up to remove all the leftover thread sealant and confirmed they turn in smoothly.
 
Installed the gaskets and lower intake yesterday and it all went pretty well as far as I can tell. Also got the fuel rail back on, hopefully all is well.

I hooked the battery back up and turned the ignition on (did not crank, of course) a few times and did not smell any leaks. However, afterwards (ignition off) I pressed down on the pin in the schrader valve on the rail for pressure testing and bleeding -- I was expecting some fuel to spray out from the built up pressure. None did... I hope this doesn't indicate a problem. I had the wife stand at the back of the truck and she said she did hear the pump come on momentarily.

How many times should have have to "prime" to fill the empty rail? I can't think of anything that would've caused a blockage unless there's something wrong with the new FPR...
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
That's some kit... what's the big square-shaped gasket in the second row of the picture?


Assuming you're talking about the link in slimjims post, that gasket should seal the plastic upper intake plenum to the lower intake.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric

Assuming you're talking about the link in slimjims post, that gasket should seal the plastic upper intake plenum to the lower intake.


Ah, makes sense. I'm not familiar w/ the shape of the intake on that engine.

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Cycle the key 3 or 4 times, then crank it over. It should start.


Can't crank or start it at the moment, distributor is still out and tons of sensors are still unplugged. Was just trying to do a quick pressure/leak check of the rail.
 
OK, I went out and cycled the key 4 or 5 more times and did get fuel when I opened the bleeder valve. No other sign/smell of fuel though, so that's good!
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Thanks for the update.


Not sure what I was thinking earlier. (Well, actually, I know what I was thinking: "I can't wait to get into the house and have dinner"). But I probably should've just primed it more the first time.

The rail is kind of a pain to put back on this engine, since it's got a single rail mounted in the middle of the intake, with the injectors coming off each side at ~90 degrees. Looks simple, but after dealing with it I think I'm more a fan of a separate fuel rail for each inline bank of cylinders which is how most newer V8s seem to be set up AFAIK.


On another note, the gauge cluster was behaving very strangely since I've got a ton of stuff unplugged. The volt meter was reading around 9 volts (which is either bogus or there was some awful draw with the key on and everything unplugged -- I see 12.5 at the battery with the ignition off) and the fuel gauge was pegged WAY past the F. Interesting.
 
I wish I had your skills rationull. I would have saved myself lots of money. I have the 3.1L.

I Had the gaskets done in 09. It wasn't until years later that I learned of the whole Intake Manifold issue with the GM engines affected. What bothers me to this day is whether or not I got the updated gaskets or not. I had the GM Dealership do the job for me. They used Delco gaskets for mine. They were plastic and as far as I can tell don't have metal inserts around the bolt holes. They used Delco part number 89018117 shown here: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-89018117-Intake-Manifold-Gasket/dp/B0049Z2TO2

Two months later I had an internal coolant leak again! Was told it was my Head Gaskets now. GM Dealer did that job for me too. This time however they used a Felpro Gasket kit HIS9957PT2 shown here: http://www.amazon.com/Fel-Pro-His9957Pt2-Head-Installation-Set/dp/B000C2EA4I

That kit included an assortment of gaskets from the EGR, to the heads, the Valve Covers, Exhaust Manifold and once again the Intake Manifold. If they used the Felpro Intake Manifold gaskets from that kit (I paid for them so I hope they did) then they are metal ones and I could sleep better at night. Sadly I have no way of knowing. I can't look between the Manifold and Head to see since they have black RTV silicone all along the edges. I would think that if they removed the Manifold again that they would replace them with new gaskets even though the old ones were only 2 months old.

Sorry for the long post/rant. Good luck on the rest of your work.
 
Now *that* is a crazy looking gasket.

That sounds fishy though. Was your original leak internal or external? Seems more likely to me that the leak was the HGs all along b/c it would be an awful coincidence to have the HG fail 2 months after the IGs... but are head gasket failures common on the 3.1?

If you they used the Felpro kit then it would seem pretty dumb to re-use the old IM gaskets if the kit came with new ones, if I were you I'd rest easy although I know firsthand that "resting easy" is sometimes very difficult
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Chris11
I wish I had your skills rationull. I would have saved myself lots of money. I have the 3.1L.


I consider this a compliment but I had to LOL at it! TBH I don't even consider myself especially mechanically inclined, and I wouldn't be able to do this job with any confidence if not for the resources available online (for me, for this job mainly BITOG although brand-specific forums for many cars are full of great DIY articles).

I have come to the conclusion that the most important thing for DIY work like this are:

1) Be able to set aside enough time for the job. Working 16 hours through a weekend to fix something on your DD is no fun, nor is taking an unplanned day off work to finish it. It's also nice to be able to stop for the day if you start feeling overwhelmed, rather than keep going and risk making stupid mistakes because you're frustrated. If this truck weren't an extra vehicle that could be parked for a month or two without a big problem, I realistically would've had to just spend the money and have someone fix it.

2) Buy [good] tools freely unless you really like to innovate your own and have the right equipment. It eats into the savings of DIY but even simple things like having the right socket extensions can make the difference on a certain bolt between 2 easy minutes or a painful half hour. Specialty tools like cable operated hose clamp pliars are the best thing since sliced bread, IMO.

This has been a pretty frustrating job at times, and it's the first time in several years that I've actually been blocked (multiple times) on not having the right tools. It will all be worth it in the end if it works though, and I am very motivated to be careful because I DO NOT want to take it back apart!
 
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