GM, Chrysler goin' under.....(maybe).....

[Tempest]

Quote:
The Japanese have been very methodical in targeting model development. They never really abandoned their core model lines,

Trucks & SUVs are the core model lines of the big three.

Why should they abandon them?

Quote:
The market eventually proved Toyota right.

How much money is Toyota making off Hybrids. Plenty of people say they are not.
Why does GM need a $7500 tax subsidy for a Volt if there is such demand for it?

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
That is a concept a person who only sees black and white with no shades of grey would be incapable of grasping.

Care to expound on that?
Quote:
When Toyota fails because of having the wrong product mix for the US market you will hear about it. Toyota did the right thing, they covered their primary market but didn't ignore the rest of the market.

So you are saying that the big three should have invested even more money into less profitable vehicles?
Can you explain?


There is nothing to expound on or to explain.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
The Japanese have been very methodical in targeting model development. They never really abandoned their core model lines,

Trucks & SUVs are the core model lines of the big three.

Why should they abandon them?

Quote:
The market eventually proved Toyota right.

How much money is Toyota making off Hybrids. Plenty of people say they are not.
Why does GM need a $7500 tax subsidy for a Volt if there is such demand for it?


Agreed, in fact, didn't the Japanese government heavily subsidize the development of the Prius?

 

[yeti]

kingrob -- you state that the big 3 line workers are used to making around $100,000. a year. are you sure that they make that amount? as well,another poster stated 1 or 2 days ago that their pension is 95% of their pay. can anyone verify these numbers?

 

[kingrob]

Put it this way. I have family in Royal Oak, MI. Most of their neighbors and friends worked at the GM plant. No one in that neighborhood made much less than a hundred grand a year, and this was fifteen-twenty years ago. I'm sure they have to be making more than that now.

What's funny is that the big topic at the time was the movie Roger and Me. Everyone at that time blamed the CEO's at GM for closing down their plants, rather than admit that they wouldn't take a pay cut in order to keep production moving. Things haven't changed much over the decades.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Agreed, in fact, didn't the Japanese government heavily subsidize the development of the Prius?

Australia is for production:
http://editorial.countrycars.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=58913
Quote:
Toyota chief Max Yasuda said the company had got what it requested from the Federal Government's green car innovation plan. Without federal and state government support, "hybrid investment would not have come to Australia", he told a Committee for the Economic Development of Australia lunch in Melbourne.

"Instead, we would have imported the vehicles from Thailand or Japan."

Also:
Quote:
The Japanese government has provided a small subsidy for the cars. Japanese car buyers who choose the new-technology automobiles receive a $3,000 rebate from the government.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht...&pagewanted=all
Quote:
the Japanese government had subsidized “100% of the research and development costs” of the automaker’s gas-electric hybrid system that was launched in the 1997 Prius and now powers all of Toyota’s hybrid vehicles.

Said a former Toyota exec.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/04/chryslers_jim_p_1.html

 

[bcossa2001]

Certainley "fair" is a relative term....

Is his severance pay that he "escaped with" what the GM heads agreed to? If so, are you blaming him for abiding by his contractual agreement? Don't make him out to be a thief if he is abiding by his agreement...

The unions have a contract and abide by it and the workers make good money. Is this unfair? No. The head of the company has a contract and abides by it and makes good money. Is this unfair?

Of course not.

Bottom line is that the CEO makes the best deal he can, and the UAW makes the best deal they can. All of the Big 3 CEO have said that they would work for $1 next year. It has made no difference in their financials as near as I can tell....

 

[yeti]

for kingrob-- so-- the GM line workers made nearly $100,000. a year, 15 to 20 years ago. that's a lot of money. thanks for the reply.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
The union sucks billions out of a company, CEO's don't, only 'millions'.

Okay

Quote:
However, if a company is doing OK, why should CEO's salaries be a thing of concern for those not involved (you & me)?


Agreed. If a company is doing good, why should labor's compensation package be a concern of those not involved (you & me)??

Quote:
I don't get why people worry about what CEO's make. That's all part of the class-envy stuff I refuse to buy into.


Oh ..but you do ..hook line and sinker ..it's just inverted.

Here's a theme that you ignore in your version of class envy. Business is good ..CEO gets big bonus for outstanding leadership
Business is bad ..CEO gets big bonus for reduced losses due to market conditions. This is "their business" ..even though it makes no common sense in any rationale that you can pull out of your behind. You'll pull some "Tempest" on it and mumble some stuff and say that they deserve it.

OTOH, you are into the class warfare against those who YOU feel make too much for what YOU believe is fair.

The fact is that neither is affordable under our current conditions.

You can no more justify some suit getting big rewards for a loser of an enterprise than you can keeping an ever increasingly idle labor force in place when they'll never be called up.

You just chose to align yourself with those of higher station in their version of entitlement.

This is still totally ignorant that an actual working UAW worker is probably highly productive and doesn't make an excessive wage. It's the MANAGEMENT CONFIGURED labor agreements that have come back to bite them in the behind.

The ignorance of this fact bolsters the notion that this is indeed class warfare for you. Getting companies to fulfill their agreements ..however painful ..taking responsibility for your actions ..however painful ..is only applicable when you're a loser in your eyes. Crack addicts or UAW workers all swept into the same heap ..while smackedarse leadership sucking money into their wallets is just fine if they're of good breeding or association.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
You'll pull some "Tempest" on it and mumble some stuff and say that they deserve it.

I have never said anything of the sort. I have said that private companies should be able to pay what they want. If that pay is a misallocation of resources, the company should fail, and this is what will happen under free market conditions.

 

[Gary Allan]

So all the financials should have people jumping out of windows? How many suicides do you feel we're short on Wall St.?? They failed.

 

[oilyriser]

Quote:
the Japanese government had subsidized “100% of the research and development costs” of the automaker’s gas-electric hybrid system that was launched in the 1997 Prius and now powers all of Toyota’s hybrid vehicles.



Do dealers pay any tariff on Japanese-built cars?