Francis Scott Key Bridge (Baltimore) hit by Cargo Ship and Collapsed

[alarmguy]

I mean let's be a little honest about this. The bridge stood 50 years built with the best practices and technology available at the time. It had to be high enough for ships to pass and was built in a harbor protected from the sea. There was little to no expectation of a ship crashing into it.

Freak accidents can and do occur. It was not a fault of intended design.

Agree, not only that but the capacity of these ships have increased 1000% (one thousand percent) in capacity since that bridge was designed. The particular capacity of this ship (Dali) seems about the capacity of ships they started building in the early mid to early 2000's which is still up or around 400% larger than 1972 and close to 700% larger than 1968 it seems.
Sad about the loss of life yet replacing the bridge now was just part of something inevitable to happen at some point in time I would think.

 

[wpod]

I generally have to cross the I-71/-75 Brent Spence once or twice a day into KY-it’s generally white knuckle even without thinking about a barge running into a pier.

Back in 78 [around the]n I was driving truck in between jobs and crossed that bridge in the winter and it seemed like a white water river. I watched the barges flying down the river ! I certainly was amazed at the pilots skills .

 

[eljefino]

Yes I understand quite well how re insurance works. But it's not Loyds. It's some pool called Britania P&I clubs.

If it's so well insured why is uncle Sam in such a rush to step up?

And there is no rich uncle Sam. Just we the people.

Just spitballing, but I think it's to reassure 1) the people of Baltimore and 2) the shippers who use the port, and other interested parties, that this port will be reopened by horse or by force as quickly and safely as engineering and logistics allow. This should minimize any "crash" because Mazda cars can't get in, or coal can't get out, or whatever. We're showing the world, and investors, that our infrastructure might take a hit but we intend to bring it back. It's the right stance-- we don't want to lose business over fears we're in-fighting. The S&P 500 closed a record high yesterday, so investors must think we're competent.

Ultimately, maintaining infrastructure so people and businesses can prosper is a core responsibility of government.

 

[wpod]

This accident is going to increase prices on many goods and cause commuters to lose 1-2 hours personal time per day, in route changes and excessive traffic congestion.

When the 1989 Earth quake happen in the SF bay area a freeway fell in Oakland and the bay bridge had a part or the road way fail Traffic was bad for a long time. The businesses made changes in the hours and every one survived [barely]

 

[wpod]

Back in 78 [around then' I was driving truck in between jobs and crossed that bridge in the winter and it seemed like a white water river. I watched the barges flying down the river ! I certainly was amazed at the pilots skills .

 

[wpod]

I see/cross these more often now days

View attachment 210732

It takes a long time to build a bridge.

 

[alarmguy]

As far as the port, it's a temporary delay. I give it two weeks and it will be open (something I just read) for our 10th largest port which is pretty small, wouldn't surprise me if it took an extra week. Nothing is going to happen to the economy over the 10th largest port being closed.

Source = Wall Street Journal

 

[alarmguy]

I know nothing about ships but think about it - these "pilots" aren't or can't be familiar with the controls of the hundreds of ships they guide through these waterways. Yes, they "advise" the experts that are familiar with the ship where to go.

The Baltimore Harbor Pilots dont take controls, they stay in the bridge and help with navigation. We must agree, you cant navigate a dead boat with no power in a fast moving tidal channel.

 

[zzyzzx]

Just spitballing, but I think it's to reassure 1) the people of Baltimore and 2) the shippers who use the port, and other interested parties, that this port will be reopened by horse or by force as quickly and safely as engineering and logistics allow. This should minimize any "crash" because Mazda cars can't get in, or coal can't get out, or whatever. We're showing the world, and investors, that our infrastructure might take a hit but we intend to bring it back. It's the right stance-- we don't want to lose business over fears we're in-fighting. The S&P 500 closed a record high yesterday, so investors must think we're competent.

Ultimately, maintaining infrastructure so people and businesses can prosper is a core responsibility of government.

There are unloaders outside the beltway and presumably unaffected by this. I would imagine that those particular facilities are going to be working 24/7 for a while.

 

[wpod]

As far as the port, it's a temporary delay. I give it two weeks and it will be open (something I just read) for our 10th largest port which is pretty small, wouldn't surprise me if it took an extra week. Nothing is going to happen to the economy over the 10th largest port being closed.

View attachment 210745
Source = Wall Street Journal

I have been to the Port of Oakland many times and even at the bottom of the list the amount of containers going in and out there is lot of merchandise . I am sure we will survive this despite what the media reports.

 

[ls1mike]

It should have been under the assistance of tugboats. Sending prayers to those who lost their lives.

It just isn't a thing in big harbors, not even for submarines. They use them to get pushed up against the pier or out in the channel and that is it. A tug boat is not required.

 

[Chris142]

Wow, that's crazy. What could have been done to prevent this? Is building the bridge to withstand impact from something so huge near impossible?

cost to do so.

 

[ls1mike]

My entire adult life (I use the term adult loosely. )has been in and around the Navy. Ten years of it qualified radar piloting operator, part of the safe navigation of the boat and riding tugboats or small craft for personnel transfer at sea.

This thing is huge and does nothing fast. Doesn't slow down fast, doesn't get up to speed fast, turns slow. This mechanical failure was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The anchor wasn't going to do anything. The best thing you can do as another vessel is to stay away from the big ships. They cannot react fast. No one knows what the currents were doing at that point in time they may have tried to react but were dealing with a strong current.

Lots of stuff no one here, including myself, knows anything about or can comment on. I bet they were trying to do the best they could in a bad situation. I know I have been there in the fog, in the channel only using the radar to navigate. Big ocean lots of space theory just does not work all the time and you can never trust the other guy, rules of the road and proper navigation lighting are a suggestion for some.

Worst thing about this is the people who couldn't get off the bridge in time. They just went to work for another shift and didn't make it home.

 

[demarpaint]

It just isn't a thing in big harbors, not even for submarines. They use them to get pushed up against the pier or out in the channel and that is it. A tug boat is not required.

Yes, I know how it works. Sadly with the assistance of tugs it would have been avoided. In fact they were calling tugboats for help, unfortunately it was too late.

 

[Hall]

Pilots dont take controls, they stay in the bridge and help navigation.

That's what I said

 

[alarmguy]

That's what I said

Yeah, I just read the last sentence now

"I know nothing about ships but think about it - these "pilots" aren't or can't be familiar with the controls of the hundreds of ships they guide through these waterways. Yes, they "advise" the experts that are familiar with the ship where to go."

 

[Rmay635703]

It would have to be a massive wall to stop a container ship. Not really feasible considering the mass.

The 24,000 container ships laiden are measured in millions of lbs.
aka the ship weighs more than that span of bridge and wins

 

[Owen Lucas]

If it's so well insured why is uncle Sam in such a rush to step up?

You have to look at who made the statement, it's the same guy who said he used to take the train over the same bridge...

I can see a possibility of upfront pay-it-just-to-get-it-fixed-ASAP and then send the subrogation bill later. I presume there are multiple financial mechanisms and agencies for these emergencies but I have no idea how that works.

 

[Owen Lucas]

This mechanical failure was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The anchor wasn't going to do anything.

Do you think it's possible that dropping the anchor caused the ship to steer towards the pier? Supposedly when power came back online for a moment before the collision that's when the anchor dropped. I'd assume there is a manual override for this but that might be require a lot of manpower and time to do so?

What side was the anchor on, IDK, but maybe it caused more hard than good.

Edit: looks like the anchor was on the port side AFAIKT:

Surprising to see the ship is floating evenly despite having a bridge on top of it including a massive chunk of concrete on the bow.

 

[Rmay635703]

You have to look at who made the statement, it's the same guy who said he used to take the train over the same bridge...

I can see a possibility of upfront pay-it-just-to-get-it-fixed-ASAP and then send the subrogation bill later. I presume there are multiple financial mechanisms and agencies for these emergencies but I have no idea how that works.

My aunt hit fog and was the first to smack a stopped car in a 100 car pileup , she was held liable, the cost was a fraction of the bridge mentioned and 20 years later is still getting legal updates.

This is a thing that needs to be cleared immediately.

The military thinks it can clear the main channel in a week if all resources would be deployed, but that is unlikely and the investigation will likely hold things up weeks by itself