Fram PH3600, 1391 miles, HPL EC added

[paulri]

Decided to drain the oil from my Sienna with 0.8 quarts of HPL EC added & change the filter. Below are the pics. I did see a few bits of carbon (?) deposits caught in the filter that I normally don't see, but it wasn't gobs and gobs of it. The last picture (with the bottom of a brown jug shown at the bottom of the pic) shows a couple bits.

Typical good 3600 fram filter. 40 pleats, and the pleats right next to the seam were very close to the seam. Easily could have gone longer, and it would have if I wasn't dying of curiosity to see what the EC was removing.

As far as why not much debris is shown, I suppose there just isn't that much there in the engine. I have noticed some oil consumption in the last few years, around a quart per 5000 miles, and for the first 120K miles this engine has had an average of one oil change per 8000 miles, mainly my local toyota dealer's 5w30 conventional. For the last 60K miles, it has had mainly synthetic, on average say every 5000 miles.

Date code: Feb 23, 2023

Out: 4 qts Castrol Edge EP 5w20 with 0.8 qts HPL EC 40 grade + Fram EG3600
In: 5 qts Pennzoil Platinum HM 0w20 + Fram EG3600

 

[fantastic]

Not bad at all. I recently counted a Fram TG, that fits my truck, that had almost double the pleats (78 pleats).

Do you plan to switch over to HPL or just run off the shelf oil?

 

[paulri]

I will be running off the shelf oil. Given what I can get from off the shelfs synthetic, I'm not sure I can justify the extra price.

Which TG was this? Do you recall the number?

Not bad at all. I recently counted a Fram TG, that fits my truck, that had almost double the pleats (78 pleats).

Do you plan to switch over to HPL or just run off the shelf oil?

 

[KCJeep]

I’ve never seen a TG with that many pleats. Four to six more than the Orange can is more typical and likely due to the increased efficiency to keep it out of unnecessary bypass.

The 3600/3980 series are some of the best fiber end cap models they offer whether PH or TG.

Are there any pictures of the TG with so many pleats? Would be great to see.

 

[Bellavita]

Decided to drain the oil from my Sienna with 0.8 quarts of HPL EC added & change the filter. Below are the pics. I did see a few bits of carbon (?) deposits caught in the filter that I normally don't see, but it wasn't gobs and gobs of it. The last picture (with the bottom of a brown jug shown at the bottom of the pic) shows a couple bits.

Typical good 3600 fram filter. 40 pleats, and the pleats right next to the seam were very close to the seam. Easily could have gone longer, and it would have if I wasn't dying of curiosity to see what the EC was removing.

As far as why not much debris is shown, I suppose there just isn't that much there in the engine. I have noticed some oil consumption in the last few years, around a quart per 5000 miles, and for the first 120K miles this engine has had an average of one oil change per 8000 miles, mainly my local toyota dealer's 5w30 conventional. For the last 60K miles, it has had mainly synthetic, on average say every 5000 miles.

Date code: Feb 23, 2023

Out: 4 qts Castrol Edge EP 5w20 with 0.8 qts HPL EC 40 grade + Fram EG3600
In: 5 qts Pennzoil Platinum HM 0w20 + Fram EG3600

View attachment 178619View attachment 178620View attachment 178621View attachment 178622View attachment 178623View attachment 178624View attachment 178625

A great C&P, well done Paulri! Thank you.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I’d run a Supertech before this thing personally. Interesting you’re not seeing the same level of carbon chunks that myself and others have observed. This filter is so clean it makes me wonder if it’s actually filtering.

 

[paulri]

The filter itself is rated for 95% at 20 microns, and I see no reason to doubt the efficiency of the filter, or the effectiveness of the EC.
My guess is that there simply wasn't that much gunk to be cleaned out to begin with. I was thinking there might be, given that the last few years, I've noticed slight oil consumption, and the first 120K of this engine's life, it saw 8K OCIs on average, on conventional. But that doesn't mean that there was a lot of deposits.

I’d run a Supertech before this thing personally. Interesting you’re not seeing the same level of carbon chunks that myself and others have observed. This filter is so clean it makes me wonder if it’s actually filtering.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

The filter itself is rated for 95% at 20 microns, and I see no reason to doubt the efficiency of the filter, or the effectiveness of the EC.
My guess is that there simply wasn't that much gunk to be cleaned out to begin with. I was thinking there might be, given that the last few years, I've noticed slight oil consumption, and the first 120K of this engine's life, it saw 8K OCIs on average, on conventional. But that doesn't mean that there was a lot of deposits.

That’s assuming the oil is actually passing through the media, though.

 

[fantastic]

I will be running off the shelf oil. Given what I can get from off the shelfs synthetic, I'm not sure I can justify the extra price.

Which TG was this? Do you recall the number?

No need to pay extra if the cheaper oils are keeping the engine clean right! The TG is for my truck (6.0L Power Stroke) TG9549

I’ve never seen a TG with that many pleats. Four to six more than the Orange can is more typical and likely due to the increased efficiency to keep it out of unnecessary bypass.

The 3600/3980 series are some of the best fiber end cap models they offer whether PH or TG.

Are there any pictures of the TG with so many pleats? Would be great to see.

Yes, Prior versions had 70 pleats but they recently bumped it to 78 when they went to the 15,000 mile Tough Guard version.

10k Version 70 Pleats (Crappy pics)



15,000 Mile TG 78 Pleat Version



Fram did offer a pretty Made in China filter for a very short bit but then went back to the Champ Labs USA Made filter shown above. Not sure on the pleat count on the one below but it did look very good synthetic type media.

 

[KCJeep]

Nice! That makes sense I was thinking of the 3600 size wish they had that many pleats.

 

[Oliveoil2]

No need to pay extra if the cheaper oils are keeping the engine clean right! The TG is for my truck (6.0L Power Stroke) TG9549

Yes, Prior versions had 70 pleats but they recently bumped it to 78 when they went to the 15,000 mile Tough Guard version.

10k Version 70 Pleats (Crappy pics)

View attachment 178760View attachment 178761

15,000 Mile TG 78 Pleat Version

View attachment 178750View attachment 178751View attachment 178752

Fram did offer a pretty Made in China filter for a very short bit but then went back to the Champ Labs USA Made filter shown above. Not sure on the pleat count on the one below but it did look very good synthetic type media.

View attachment 178756View attachment 178759

I’m a fan of the recent China and Korean filters. Tight pleat spacing.

 

[fantastic]

Nice! That makes sense I was thinking of the 3600 size wish they had that many pleats.

Ha ha yeah that would be cool, but I don't think it would be necessary. I would assume that gasoline light auto vs diesel light truck would play a part in oil filter construction. 3600 most likely for non HD gasoline application there really is not a need for that much soot/dirt holding capacity except in the case of really long drain intervals perhaps.

I’m a fan of the recent China and Korean filters. Tight pleat spacing.

I was bummed a bit to be honest. I sent them an email with these photo's & they confirmed the change.

 

[53' Stude]

Decided to drain the oil from my Sienna with 0.8 quarts of HPL EC added & change the filter. Below are the pics. I did see a few bits of carbon (?) deposits caught in the filter that I normally don't see, but it wasn't gobs and gobs of it. The last picture (with the bottom of a brown jug shown at the bottom of the pic) shows a couple bits.

Typical good 3600 fram filter. 40 pleats, and the pleats right next to the seam were very close to the seam. Easily could have gone longer, and it would have if I wasn't dying of curiosity to see what the EC was removing.

As far as why not much debris is shown, I suppose there just isn't that much there in the engine. I have noticed some oil consumption in the last few years, around a quart per 5000 miles, and for the first 120K miles this engine has had an average of one oil change per 8000 miles, mainly my local toyota dealer's 5w30 conventional. For the last 60K miles, it has had mainly synthetic, on average say every 5000 miles.

Date code: Feb 23, 2023

Out: 4 qts Castrol Edge EP 5w20 with 0.8 qts HPL EC 40 grade + Fram EG3600
In: 5 qts Pennzoil Platinum HM 0w20 + Fram EG3600

View attachment 178619View attachment 178620View attachment 178621View attachment 178622View attachment 178623View attachment 178624View attachment 178625

Nice photos. Thank Younfor cut and post

 

[ZeeOSix]

That’s assuming the oil is actually passing through the media, though.

Why wouldn't it be?

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Why wouldn't it be?

A gap due to flexing of the end cap, perhaps.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A gap due to flexing of the end cap, perhaps.

Highly doubt that. The whole core is conpressed and sealed by the leaf spring. Even if the outside circumference flexed some, the center core circumference would remain compressed and sealed. Oil filters with non-metal end caps would not have high ISO 4548-12 efficiency if dirty oil was getting by the media somehow.

 

[3800Series]

This was kinda my experience as well, bought '09 Accord 2.4 last year, was burning noticeable amounts of oil along with a deep yellow/gold. Decided to try EC, replaced filter at 1500-1800 miles (don't remember exactly).

Seen about a single piece of carbon every few pleats, used Fram Ultra, with Mobil 1 EP Triple Action with the EC. Only replaced filter however just to be on the safe side, still plan to run it till 4k miles.

I don't drive much these days, let alone this vehicle so I kinda have to find a reason to put 100-150 miles on it per month (not short trips). I'll use their oil next, since its stronger, I don't mind draining oil, but I have a hard time putting miles on a vehicle.

Car is burning about a quart of oil every 2k miles, hasn't much changed yet, and really only sees the highway due to the rural area. I don't know what kind of oil changes this vehicle has seen all its life but from the few receipts in the glove box its mostly been 7,500-8,000 mile OCI.

 

[Plawan]

Decided to drain the oil from my Sienna with 0.8 quarts of HPL EC added & change the filter. Below are the pics. I did see a few bits of carbon (?) deposits caught in the filter that I normally don't see, but it wasn't gobs and gobs of it. The last picture (with the bottom of a brown jug shown at the bottom of the pic) shows a couple bits.

Typical good 3600 fram filter. 40 pleats, and the pleats right next to the seam were very close to the seam. Easily could have gone longer, and it would have if I wasn't dying of curiosity to see what the EC was removing.

As far as why not much debris is shown, I suppose there just isn't that much there in the engine. I have noticed some oil consumption in the last few years, around a quart per 5000 miles, and for the first 120K miles this engine has had an average of one oil change per 8000 miles, mainly my local toyota dealer's 5w30 conventional. For the last 60K miles, it has had mainly synthetic, on average say every 5000 miles.

Date code: Feb 23, 2023

Out: 4 qts Castrol Edge EP 5w20 with 0.8 qts HPL EC 40 grade + Fram EG3600
In: 5 qts Pennzoil Platinum HM 0w20 + Fram EG3600

View attachment 178619View attachment 178620View attachment 178621View attachment 178622View attachment 178623View attachment 178624View attachment 178625

Dosent look like the engine needs to be cleaned. Either that or the EC isn’t doing much.