Is this one of the GM V6 engines that were prone to leaking lower intake manifold gaskets? That just seems like a lot of junk for 6000 miles on a naturally aspirated V6. I would try a shorter OCI and a UOA. Also I think that the PF52 is the longer version of what you have installed and would give you a little more surface area. If you can find the PF52 classic, it's a great filter for the money.
FRAM CORE COR3387A CUT OPEN EXPOSED W PICTURES
- Thread starter chad8
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dnewton3
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Some of you folks are getting the ABDV and BP functions confused.
There is no reason not to expect some lube inside a fitler, on both sides of the media, after an FCI.
There is no reason not to expect some lube inside a fitler, on both sides of the media, after an FCI.
The 3800 is more prone to leaking intake gaskets , but this motor has had problems too.
I believe they were fixed with the previous owner many moons ago.
This was a one owner car before we bought it.
Yes, I probably will go with a larger classic filter next time. I did not know that the 47e was an encore until 2 days ago nor did I know that the filter from wal-mart was one either.
I was at another autozone yesterday and they only had the classic 47's. The one i bought the first one from (near pontiac Mi.)had only 47e's.I think that they sell a lot more old G.M. filters , their turnover is greater so they got the new stock . These are all going to be 47E.
From the looks of the filter , the adbv was working . I did write it wrong.
All filters go into bypass at some time. Cold starts , dirty oil.
Mine had both. They do not stay in bypass.
I think that if the filter was clogged beyond capacity, it would have been more distorted.
As I said before, I have been using champion filters including a couple e-cores for decades and only had one leaking supertech. I would have no problem letting Wal-mart change my daughters oil again although i prefer to do it myself.
With 6 cars and 20 other motors here it gets a bit too much work.
This latest change with PP and the 47e cost me about $11 with all the rebates I had.
I believe they were fixed with the previous owner many moons ago.
This was a one owner car before we bought it.
Yes, I probably will go with a larger classic filter next time. I did not know that the 47e was an encore until 2 days ago nor did I know that the filter from wal-mart was one either.
I was at another autozone yesterday and they only had the classic 47's. The one i bought the first one from (near pontiac Mi.)had only 47e's.I think that they sell a lot more old G.M. filters , their turnover is greater so they got the new stock . These are all going to be 47E.
From the looks of the filter , the adbv was working . I did write it wrong.
All filters go into bypass at some time. Cold starts , dirty oil.
Mine had both. They do not stay in bypass.
I think that if the filter was clogged beyond capacity, it would have been more distorted.
As I said before, I have been using champion filters including a couple e-cores for decades and only had one leaking supertech. I would have no problem letting Wal-mart change my daughters oil again although i prefer to do it myself.
With 6 cars and 20 other motors here it gets a bit too much work.
This latest change with PP and the 47e cost me about $11 with all the rebates I had.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oldhp
If you had oil between filter housing and "outside" of filter element, the filter was plugged.
Don't follow you, as a proper working ADBV will keep oil trapped between the media and the can very well, even on a brand new oil filter.
Most of the oil will normally flow threw the media, not stay trapped, thus draining. When you cut it open was there oil in the center tube? Did you cut it open while keeping the gasket side up?
Originally Posted By: oldhp
If you had oil between filter housing and "outside" of filter element, the filter was plugged.
Don't follow you, as a proper working ADBV will keep oil trapped between the media and the can very well, even on a brand new oil filter.
Most of the oil will normally flow threw the media, not stay trapped, thus draining. When you cut it open was there oil in the center tube? Did you cut it open while keeping the gasket side up?
The 3100 and 3400 GM cars were ALWAYS in our shop with intake or head gaskets out. Much more than the 3800 Series II engines, although those came in semi regularly for intakes, but being a cast iron construction motor, rarely for head gaskets. I had a 99 Monte LS with a 3100...5 months after I sold it the cam broke in half on it and it died. But I had to do intakes on mine. I always used Mobil 5000 and PF47 non ecore AC Delco filters on mine. Inside was spotless when I did the intakes before selling.
Id look at replacing the PCV valve on it as well. Cheap, and a bad one can cause some sludging and oil burning. But yeah, Id do a few short OCI's with a good cleaning oil like Pennzoil.
Id look at replacing the PCV valve on it as well. Cheap, and a bad one can cause some sludging and oil burning. But yeah, Id do a few short OCI's with a good cleaning oil like Pennzoil.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mr_diy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oldhp
If you had oil between filter housing and "outside" of filter element, the filter was plugged.
Don't follow you, as a proper working ADBV will keep oil trapped between the media and the can very well, even on a brand new oil filter.
Most of the oil will normally flow threw the media, not stay trapped, thus draining. When you cut it open was there oil in the center tube? Did you cut it open while keeping the gasket side up?
This is how a filter traps oil between the media and the can when the ADBV works 100%.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oldhp
If you had oil between filter housing and "outside" of filter element, the filter was plugged.
Don't follow you, as a proper working ADBV will keep oil trapped between the media and the can very well, even on a brand new oil filter.
Most of the oil will normally flow threw the media, not stay trapped, thus draining. When you cut it open was there oil in the center tube? Did you cut it open while keeping the gasket side up?
This is how a filter traps oil between the media and the can when the ADBV works 100%.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807
I know the flack will fly, but, with that amount of crud, I would do a <1,000 mile oci just to try to get some of the chunks of crud out so they don't plug the filter. Since you said it was already sludged when you got it, it may be a good idea. I know its good oil, maybe you could just change the filter and add makeup oil at ~1,000 miles. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I originally did a 2000 mile oil and filter change with a quart of MMO and part of the latest chunks in the filter could be the residual cleaning after we made the first change. I am planning a 3000 mile filter change just to be safe. The valve springs and under the oil cap are a LOT cleaner than they were when we first bought the car. I believe that Wal-mart used quaker state when they changed the oil. That may have helped clean further.
In regards to the intake problems. I am friends with an engineer who defended General Motors in the intake gasket lawsuits. She (yes,she) claims that it has been proven that it is NOT Dex-cool that originally caused so many problems. It was an inadequately designed intake gasket that did not seal between 2 different metals or plastic and metal. The newer gaskets are double layered and essentially solved the problem. Now if only G.M. had solved the transmission output shaft problem and the shift solenoid problem on this car, it might have been called reliable.
I am almost positive that the intakes have been done. I can check it very easily. I will also check the PCV valve , but since the engine burns hardly any oil , I bet it is fine. Most of the time , I just clean them , check that they seal , and put them back in. Come to think of it ,I might have done that already.
In regards to the intake problems. I am friends with an engineer who defended General Motors in the intake gasket lawsuits. She (yes,she) claims that it has been proven that it is NOT Dex-cool that originally caused so many problems. It was an inadequately designed intake gasket that did not seal between 2 different metals or plastic and metal. The newer gaskets are double layered and essentially solved the problem. Now if only G.M. had solved the transmission output shaft problem and the shift solenoid problem on this car, it might have been called reliable.
I am almost positive that the intakes have been done. I can check it very easily. I will also check the PCV valve , but since the engine burns hardly any oil , I bet it is fine. Most of the time , I just clean them , check that they seal , and put them back in. Come to think of it ,I might have done that already.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Yes , it is that simple . Check out Fram Filtration.They are now fully integrated.
http://www.champlabs.com/
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Yes , it is that simple . Check out Fram Filtration.They are now fully integrated.
http://www.champlabs.com/
Originally Posted By: chad8
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Yes , it is that simple . Check out Fram Filtration.They are now fully integrated.
http://www.champlabs.com/
You may need to look a little more closely at what was posted above. I'm simply pointing out that Fram did not buy Champ Labs, which some people here incorrectly believe because the new company formed by the Rank Group is named Fram Filtration.
The two companies are integrated, I never said they weren't. They're being combined because they were both bought by the Rank Group. Read the link I posted. Fram did not buy Champ Labs as a member claimed above, which is what I was disputing. The Rank Group bought both Champ Labs and Fram and is combining them.
The Rank Group bought Honeywell's consumber products group, which included FRAM filters, Prestone antifreeze, Autolite spark plugs and some other stuff.
The Rank Group also bought UCI International, parent of Airtex Products, ASC Industries and Champion Laboratories.
The Rank Group then combined all of them into the UCI Fram Group:
http://www.ucinc.com/index.html
It appears the Rank Group is combining all the filtration assets under the Fram name. I can only assume that is because it's a more recognizable name the Champ Labs.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Fram, buys Champion Filters?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
It's actually not so simple as "Fram owns Champion."
Both Fram and Champ Labs have been purchased separately by a company called the Rank Group based in New Zealand.
http://www.rankgroup.co.nz/
Here's a press release from 2011 when the Rank Group agreed to buy Fram. It says in the release that the Rank Group was already in the process of buying Champ Labs at that time.
http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/8374...50_million.aspx
Yes , it is that simple . Check out Fram Filtration.They are now fully integrated.
http://www.champlabs.com/
You may need to look a little more closely at what was posted above. I'm simply pointing out that Fram did not buy Champ Labs, which some people here incorrectly believe because the new company formed by the Rank Group is named Fram Filtration.
The two companies are integrated, I never said they weren't. They're being combined because they were both bought by the Rank Group. Read the link I posted. Fram did not buy Champ Labs as a member claimed above, which is what I was disputing. The Rank Group bought both Champ Labs and Fram and is combining them.
The Rank Group bought Honeywell's consumber products group, which included FRAM filters, Prestone antifreeze, Autolite spark plugs and some other stuff.
The Rank Group also bought UCI International, parent of Airtex Products, ASC Industries and Champion Laboratories.
The Rank Group then combined all of them into the UCI Fram Group:
http://www.ucinc.com/index.html
It appears the Rank Group is combining all the filtration assets under the Fram name. I can only assume that is because it's a more recognizable name the Champ Labs.
Personally I think that looks like a bad filter but I am of the opinion that plastic & fiber end caps have no place in an oil filter. As was said why spend that money when the same or cheaper you can get a filter with superior construction.
Fram's low end products are just that but sold at mid level prices. Really disgusting practice...Wix/Mobil1/Pure1 all the way.
Fram's low end products are just that but sold at mid level prices. Really disgusting practice...Wix/Mobil1/Pure1 all the way.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Fram owns Champion.
Rank of New Zealand owns both and put the Fram name on both operations.
Fram owns Champion.
Rank of New Zealand owns both and put the Fram name on both operations.
Please don't treat. The the 3800 GM Beast like that
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
You may need to look a little more closely at what was posted above. I'm simply pointing out that Fram did not buy Champ Labs, which some people here incorrectly believe because the new company formed by the Rank Group is named Fram Filtration.
The two companies are integrated, I never said they weren't. They're being combined because they were both bought by the Rank Group. Read the link I posted. Fram did not buy Champ Labs as a member claimed above, which is what I was disputing. The Rank Group bought both Champ Labs and Fram and is combining them.
The Rank Group bought Honeywell's consumber products group, which included FRAM filters, Prestone antifreeze, Autolite spark plugs and some other stuff.
The Rank Group also bought UCI International, parent of Airtex Products, ASC Industries and Champion Laboratories.
The Rank Group then combined all of them into the UCI Fram Group:
http://www.ucinc.com/index.html
It appears the Rank Group is combining all the filtration assets under the Fram name. I can only assume that is because it's a more recognizable name the Champ Labs.
I think this is the most concise explanation I've heard. Thanks, stephen.
You may need to look a little more closely at what was posted above. I'm simply pointing out that Fram did not buy Champ Labs, which some people here incorrectly believe because the new company formed by the Rank Group is named Fram Filtration.
The two companies are integrated, I never said they weren't. They're being combined because they were both bought by the Rank Group. Read the link I posted. Fram did not buy Champ Labs as a member claimed above, which is what I was disputing. The Rank Group bought both Champ Labs and Fram and is combining them.
The Rank Group bought Honeywell's consumber products group, which included FRAM filters, Prestone antifreeze, Autolite spark plugs and some other stuff.
The Rank Group also bought UCI International, parent of Airtex Products, ASC Industries and Champion Laboratories.
The Rank Group then combined all of them into the UCI Fram Group:
http://www.ucinc.com/index.html
It appears the Rank Group is combining all the filtration assets under the Fram name. I can only assume that is because it's a more recognizable name the Champ Labs.
I think this is the most concise explanation I've heard. Thanks, stephen.
Originally Posted By: chad8
This was on my daughters car for over 6000 miles due to a little slip up by Wal-Mart employees and my daughter being "too busy". We had two tires put on well over 1000 miles ago and Wal-Mart was supposed to change the oil. Of course they forgot. College finals came and the oil was forgotten.
Wal-mart customers should be very pleased that their oil change tire centers are installing decent quality products.
Yikes!... Oh My!.... pleased?.... not if they forgot to do the oil/filter change.
If getting a oil/filter change away from home, its a good idea to check the oil once home generally to be sure the fill is at/near the full mark on the stick. And after a sit, a peek under for any leaks. If the check reveals the oil was dark between Walmart to home, that should raise a big red flag.
Note... friend had some work done to his vehicle. Sometime later he brought up that his engine didn't sound like before, when on the throttle. Months later, found he had no air filter at all. One of the services he paid for months earlier. Checking on things done, found tire pressure were max pressure (something like 44/45 on sidewall), not according placard.
Anyway, glad to see the pics of the filter... thanks
This was on my daughters car for over 6000 miles due to a little slip up by Wal-Mart employees and my daughter being "too busy". We had two tires put on well over 1000 miles ago and Wal-Mart was supposed to change the oil. Of course they forgot. College finals came and the oil was forgotten.
Wal-mart customers should be very pleased that their oil change tire centers are installing decent quality products.
Yikes!... Oh My!.... pleased?.... not if they forgot to do the oil/filter change.
If getting a oil/filter change away from home, its a good idea to check the oil once home generally to be sure the fill is at/near the full mark on the stick. And after a sit, a peek under for any leaks. If the check reveals the oil was dark between Walmart to home, that should raise a big red flag.
Note... friend had some work done to his vehicle. Sometime later he brought up that his engine didn't sound like before, when on the throttle. Months later, found he had no air filter at all. One of the services he paid for months earlier. Checking on things done, found tire pressure were max pressure (something like 44/45 on sidewall), not according placard.
Anyway, glad to see the pics of the filter... thanks
I know this is an old Thread and its not really meant to resurrect anything, but add some information since this is one of the first sites that come up when you Google Fram Core filters. I work for a Heavy Duty parts distributor and we sell both Fram and Luberfiner (Champ Labs). At one point yes they were merging both into Fram Filtration, but that never really materialized into anything. Fram was primarily automotive with Medium and Heavy Duty coverage. Luberfiner was primarily Medium and Heavy Duty with automotive coverage. It seemed like a good fit, especially since most of Frams Medium and Heavy duty filters were already being produced by Luberfiner. When major aftermarket distributors like Advance Auto and others switched away from Airtex water pumps, that put UCI division of Rank group into the red. UCI filed Chapter 11 and is now owned by someone else and along with that split, so was the split of Fram and Luberfiner. Even though Luberfiner still makes the majority of Frams Medium and Heavy Duty filters, they are not in as good of terms and I can easily get Luberfiner filters, but have issues getting the equivalent filters in Fram. On a side note, Fram Core filters are supposedly something originally sold exclusively through Walmart. Walmart usually looks for exclusive products where they can make a higher profit margin, but I'm sure manufacturers have to take something out quality wise to be at the price point Walmart is looking for, so consider that when the over the counter filter costs them only a few dollars to purchase to begin with. The Fram 3800 filter (PH3387A) costs me as an independent distributor, $2.10 (and I'm sure my costs are higher since I'm nowhere near as big as Walmart) and Walmart shows it online for $3.77. That's 80% profit, and they need a cheaper one for their lube jobs to make even more profit than that. I personally wouldn't use a Fram filter, whether its core or not on anything more important than my lawnmower, just me.
TheBr0ken,
What is your cost for Fram's non-WM installer line, the Fram Pro series?
http://www.framproseries.com/program.html
What is your cost for Fram's non-WM installer line, the Fram Pro series?
http://www.framproseries.com/program.html
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