Ford Says Electric F-150 Will Start Under $40,000. It Can Also Power Your Home

[supton]

I don't really care about the alleged environmental benefits or detriments of electric versus gasoline. I do not plan to ever own an electric vehicle.

Electric F-150 for under $40,000? That's still several times as much as I've spent on every car put together over my entire driving life of over half a century. Let me know when I can buy a 15-20 year old electric vehicle for a couple of grand that is still functional, then we'll talk.

I'm not sure that is a fair metric. I mean, EV's have been on sale for what, 5-ish years now? I mean large quantities of sales, you get the idea.

10 to 20 years from now, a couple of grand will be pocket change. You might not be able to buy a new set of tires for that kind of money twenty years from now. So insisting that a car with usable life left in be that kind of money is a bit ambitious I think. It's been increasingly hard the last few years, let alone right at this moment in time.

 

[Saabist]

o insisting that a car with usable life left in be that kind of money is a bit ambitious I think.

You can include inflation if you like, it doesn't change anything. It is highly unlikely that any of today's electric cars will be viable as used vehicles going for the equivalent of a couple of grand in today's money in 15-20 years, not unless replacement batteries are virtually free.

I'm not sure that is a fair metric. I mean, EV's have been on sale for what, 5-ish years now?

That's kind of the point. I am 100% unwilling to either go into debt or take sufficient money out of the bank for a new or late model used vehicle of any type. Perfectly good gasoline-powered cars can be had for the kind of money I'm talking about. (I've been driving a car for the last 10 years which cost less than that.) So aside from any other issues if I'm shopping for a car there are no electric models that I would consider.

 

[JHZR2]

I appreciate the concept and applaud Ford for this, but let's get a few things straight:

1. The price will be $40k for fleets, if typical consumers want one with all 4 of its wheels the price will be higher.
2. The range will be at least half when towing or using it with the heat on.
3. The hybrid model I think is a bigger step as it applies to a wider range of buyers and real world applications.

So the $39k xlt won’t be available to a consumer?

 

[supton]

You can include inflation if you like, it doesn't change anything. It is highly unlikely that any of today's electric cars will be viable as used vehicles going for the equivalent of a couple of grand in today's money in 15-20 years, not unless replacement batteries are virtually free.


That's kind of the point. I am 100% unwilling to either go into debt or take sufficient money out of the bank for a new or late model used vehicle of any type. Perfectly good gasoline-powered cars can be had for the kind of money I'm talking about. (I've been driving a car for the last 10 years which cost less than that.) So aside from any other issues if I'm shopping for a car there are no electric models that I would consider.

Which is fine, but let's not call it "a couple of grand" when in reality 20 years from today's "couple grand" is likely 5k. 10-20 years from now it'll be more than a couple, perhaps significantly, just to stay on top of inflation.

All this talk of banning NEW ICE vehicle sales has not said a thing about banning USED ICE sales. Unless if certain cities attempt to ban ICE via taxation I am guessing you will be able to buy used ICE vehicles for years to come. Actually... to be a cynic... if cities do implement bans, you might be even better off: if such bans actually take place, that will have a tendency to drive down value of used ICE I would think.

 

[Saabist]

if cities do implement bans, you might be even better off: if such bans actually take place, that will have a tendency to drive down value of used ICE I would think.

Fortunately I don't live in a city. (Wouldn't want to. Don't understand why anyone would but that's another topic entirely.) The rare times I need to go into a big city I take mass transit, not out of any particular environmental concern but because I hate dealing with the traffic and parking.

Now it's possible that through confiscatory taxation government may make it more expensive and less convenient to own a gasoline vehicle than an an electric one, but a funny thing is that although I'm a cheapskate if I'm being "nudged" to go in one direction I push back hard the other way even if it means spending more. So once again, no electric car for me, I will not be coerced into one even if buying a new electric car becomes cheaper than running an old gas-powered beater. (At my age it is highly unlikely it will be possible to enact a total ban while I'm still living, or at least driving.)

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't really care about the alleged environmental benefits or detriments of electric versus gasoline. I do not plan to ever own an electric vehicle.

Electric F-150 for under $40,000? That's still several times as much as I've spent on every car put together over my entire driving life of over half a century. Let me know when I can buy a 15-20 year old electric vehicle for a couple of grand that is still functional, then we'll talk.

The OEM's aren't making vehicles for the guy buying it when it is 15-20 years old, they make their money off the original purchaser; their products are geared for consumption by those who buy new or lease.

Since used product selection is dictated by the people who supply it, the same people the OEM's are catering to, you won't be given a choice (if you live that long, as you noted in a subsequent reply). Already, your stream of adoption will be forcing you into DI or DI-turbo engines as we progress along the development "squeeze". Added complexity, start/stop, expensive components. A $2K TGDI that needs a $5K turbo and pump replacement loses some of that "bargain" sheen. If OEM's continue to push to EV's and invest less in legacy ICE vehicles, this will again complicate things.

Not that any of this is going to happen overnight, but the tail clearly doesn't wag the dog here, so toothless grumblings by the non-consumer aren't on the radar of those making these plans/decisions.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't really care about the alleged environmental benefits or detriments of electric versus gasoline. I do not plan to ever own an electric vehicle.

Electric F-150 for under $40,000? That's still several times as much as I've spent on every car put together over my entire driving life of over half a century. Let me know when I can buy a 15-20 year old electric vehicle for a couple of grand that is still functional, then we'll talk.

You probably need to compete with a lot of people before you get your chance. EV is much easier to replace battery pack than ICE engine rebuilding head gasket or transmission, so the price will likely stay higher if you can get cheaper battery.

Or the whole car scrap because battery wear out and it is not worth replacing battery.

Everyone wants to buy that brown diesel wagon with manual transmission after 10 years and 150k miles for $2k. Which is why new car manufacturers never make them.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I don't really care about the alleged environmental benefits or detriments of electric versus gasoline. I do not plan to ever own an electric vehicle.

Electric F-150 for under $40,000? That's still several times as much as I've spent on every car put together over my entire driving life of over half a century. Let me know when I can buy a 15-20 year old electric vehicle for a couple of grand that is still functional, then we'll talk.

You are clearly not the target market for car makers, ICE or otherwise. Of course, you saved a ton of money over the years, so there's that.
Personally, I love our Tesla and will buy another. But that's just me.
All good; each to their own.

 

[vw7674]

The OEM's aren't making vehicles for the guy buying it when it is 15-20 years old, they make their money off the original purchaser; their products are geared for consumption by those who buy new or lease.

Since used product selection is dictated by the people who supply it, the same people the OEM's are catering to, you won't be given a choice (if you live that long, as you noted in a subsequent reply). Already, your stream of adoption will be forcing you into DI or DI-turbo engines as we progress along the development "squeeze". Added complexity, start/stop, expensive components. A $2K TGDI that needs a $5K turbo and pump replacement loses some of that "bargain" sheen. If OEM's continue to push to EV's and invest less in legacy ICE vehicles, this will again complicate things.

Not that any of this is going to happen overnight, but the tail clearly doesn't wag the dog here, so toothless grumblings by the non-consumer aren't on the radar of those making these plans/decisions.

the used product selection is dictated by the feasibility of the original engineering. that's why there are old Volvos, old Toyotas & Hondas.
don't see so many Chevy Corsica or BMW or Audi, failures & costs take the weaker expensive stuff off the roadways.
Those battery packs are plainly the weak & expensive link. And the weight of them. See any original Honda Insights lately? I haven't either.
That's the future of every one of the electrics, unless a new quick charge ultra-high density pack comes along.

 

[buster]

I'm not in any particular camp. Among my friends that have driven EV's, all were super impressed. Tesla especially.

 

[Saabist]

EV is much easier to replace battery pack than ICE engine rebuilding head gasket or transmission, so the price will likely stay higher if you can get cheaper battery.

Except that a properly-maintained ICE vehicle can run for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles without an overhaul. I have one right here that has gone 50 years without engine or trans ever taken apart. Speculation about a cheaper battery is just that, speculation. I've been hearing about miracle batteries just around the corner since the 1970s.

In the final analysis as far as I am concerned electric vehicles just make no sense. Once the batteries are dead or even just out of warranty they're scrap. Of course if somebody wants one that's up to them. What I object to is having electric vehicles forced onto a market that is not demanding them, and the spectre of possible regulation nudging or forcing people into them. Certainly no one that I know when they go car shopping is saying to themselves "I want to buy an electric car today." As I've said I don't expect to ever own one.

 

[stanlee]

I've believe it when I see it. Starting at as in 2wd single cab no option, will never find one outside a fleet purchase trim? Nothing about current pricing of actual doable trims including their current new hybrid gives me any reason to believe it will be anywhere near $40k

 

[JeffKeryk]

Except that a properly-maintained ICE vehicle can run for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles without an overhaul. I have one right here that has gone 50 years without engine or trans ever taken apart. Speculation about a cheaper battery is just that, speculation. I've been hearing about miracle batteries just around the corner since the 1970s.

In the final analysis as far as I am concerned electric vehicles just make no sense. Once the batteries are dead or even just out of warranty they're scrap. Of course if somebody wants one that's up to them. What I object to is having electric vehicles forced onto a market that is not demanding them, and the spectre of possible regulation nudging or forcing people into them. Certainly no one that I know when they go car shopping is saying to themselves "I want to buy an electric car today." As I've said I don't expect to ever own one.

Some cars last for hundreds of thousands, some don't. I have 2 1960s cars that are in excellent shape, but they have been cared for and do not have that many miles...

EV batteries that are no longer suitable for EV use are not scrap; they have many uses.

No one is forcing an EV on you. As you have said, you are not interested in an EV.
FYI, a lot of people go out to buy EVs every day. I happen to enjoy our Tesla on many accounts. It is an engineering marvel.
Your results may vary.

 

[Black Thunder]

Most trucks are for Urban Cowboys, never tow and never leave the highway. This truck will be perfect. Fortunately, Elon has long list of buyers with deposits for the Cyber Truck.

Indeed. Trucks driven back and forth to work or in a circle and nothing more......

When I use my trucks its 90 percent hauling or towing.

 

[PandaBear]

Except that a properly-maintained ICE vehicle can run for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles without an overhaul. I have one right here that has gone 50 years without engine or trans ever taken apart. Speculation about a cheaper battery is just that, speculation. I've been hearing about miracle batteries just around the corner since the 1970s.

In the final analysis as far as I am concerned electric vehicles just make no sense. Once the batteries are dead or even just out of warranty they're scrap. Of course if somebody wants one that's up to them. What I object to is having electric vehicles forced onto a market that is not demanding them, and the spectre of possible regulation nudging or forcing people into them. Certainly no one that I know when they go car shopping is saying to themselves "I want to buy an electric car today." As I've said I don't expect to ever own one.

EV outside of the battery is also "can run for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles without an overhaul", and let's be honest, everything can be done with enough money and time. Things get old and people toss them away statistically speaking, you can see the curve in a chart, we are all looking at special cases without numbers. So people throw away EVs, people throw away ICE cars, not a problem as long as the price is right. China is doing EV battery leasing program, when you buy the car you can choose to spend $10k less and buy without the battery, then you can lease the battery and just swap them out instead of charging, or swap between big and small battery pack for short distance, long distance trips. The current program says people love it because the battery lease is about the same cost as gasoline, and older battery with shortened range can be trickle down to local customers and people don't need to overpay for a big pack when the car is new and let the capacity waste away. Nissan also has the same program for Leaf, if your battery die you can lease a pack for $120 a month and they guarantee it, or you can buy a whole new pack for $6k. Think of it as a prepaid fuel program and you will realize it is not a big deal.

Hybrid is the same, people used to say the same problem will happen to hybrid and we are seeing people replace the pack and keeps on going. Look at Prius, they are doing well.

Of course, if you look at statistics you will see some manufacturers do better than the others, I'll leave that to you to see which one is it. We've forced EV before, if it is not ready politics will go the other way eventually, look at EV1, it is an example of what happen.

Just chill, you'll be fine. Things will eventually work out.

 

[DwightFrye]

Tesla's "million mile battery" will soon be their "two million mile battery".
What does that mean ? Well, no one is expected to drive their Tesla for a million miles let alone two. But battery failure and replacement is going to be a non issue. What will happen to the battery of a car that has 500,000 miles on it, the rest of the components are well worn and.or obsolete or the car has negligible resale value ?
Tesla will recycle the battery to be used in one of their other products that have less drain upon the battery and most likely will have many, many years of service life with that battery that was no longer useful in a car. Tesla will have no problem offering a warranty that will give confidence to the consumer to not worry about having a "used" battery in their new Tesla system.

This is why Tesla and Elon's vision is so far ahead of the competition. Other automakers will certainly offer EV's at reasonable prices and moderate range and will undoubtedly sell some due to brand loyalty, styling or perceived performance and value. And because a lot of people hate Tesla.

I was watching a financial report yesterday and the reporter was all excited that Ford's stock was up something like 8% after their CEO announced that Ford will be 40% EV's by 2030. BFD. Their stock was up to $14 and change. TSLA closed over $600 and they are down considerably from where they were 60 days ago.

Which company will have the cash to pump into R&D, new factories and equipment and a talent pool of engineers necessary to move forward into a ever increasing market ?

 

[PandaBear]

Tesla's "million mile battery" will soon be their "two million mile battery".
What does that mean ? Well, no one is expected to drive their Tesla for a million miles let alone two. But battery failure and replacement is going to be a non issue. What will happen to the battery of a car that has 500,000 miles on it, the rest of the components are well worn and.or obsolete or the car has negligible resale value ?
Tesla will recycle the battery to be used in one of their other products that have less drain upon the battery and most likely will have many, many years of service life with that battery that was no longer useful in a car. Tesla will have no problem offering a warranty that will give confidence to the consumer to not worry about having a "used" battery in their new Tesla system.

This is why Tesla and Elon's vision is so far ahead of the competition. Other automakers will certainly offer EV's at reasonable prices and moderate range and will undoubtedly sell some due to brand loyalty, styling or perceived performance and value. And because a lot of people hate Tesla.

I was watching a financial report yesterday and the reporter was all excited that Ford's stock was up something like 8% after their CEO announced that Ford will be 40% EV's by 2030. BFD. Their stock was up to $14 and change. TSLA closed over $600 and they are down considerably from where they were 60 days ago.

Which company will have the cash to pump into R&D, new factories and equipment and a talent pool of engineers necessary to move forward into a ever increasing market ?

Chrysler used to offer lifetime powertrain warranty, it is a statistical analysis based insurance cost and they know most people will wear out the rest of the car and sell it by then.

For Tesla, they would likely have a clause that says 15 years regardless of miles or something like that, since battery do age. People will wear out their battery sitting around instead if they don't drive past warranty. And if they do drive past that Tesla may just get them a junkyard salvage battery that's good enough and last them to the 15-20 year limit. It won't cost them much.

On the other hand, I can see Tesla insurance and the free supercharger end up costing them way more than the 1M battery warranty. Since they are double on collision repair cost typically and they charge below market insurance rate, they will lose money there despite providing in house parts cost, and if people supercharge their Tesla for free you bet they would end up using way above typical and likely would rent the car out on Turo for profit, going long distance trip regularly.

 

[E365]

There’s already independent companies that repair Tesla batteries. My guess is this will be common in the future. When your battery goes “bad”, a repair shop will pull the battery, test and replace individual cells and you leave with a rebuilt battery. Exactly like a transmission shop today.

Nissan themselves even sells rebuilt battery packs for the Leaf.

Nissan begins offering rebuilt Leaf battery packs

Starting this month, Nissan has begun offering rebuilt battery packs for the older Leafs, filling a gap for drivers of older cars whose packs have begun to run down. The company built a new facility in Japan to rebuild the packs, and will sell them for about $2,850 (based on the price in Japan)...

www.greencarreports.com

 

[alarmguy]

20% of EV owners go back to gas when getting a new vehicle.
All sounds great till you have to charge the battery.
Cost for “fuel”is about the same on average. Depends on your electric rate. If you have peak times in your electric rate structure you can really get dinged.

It will be a very long time before electric can match gas for convenience.

 

[JeffKeryk]

20% of EV owners go back to gas when getting a new vehicle.
All sounds great till you have to charge the battery.
Cost for “fuel”is about the same on average. Depends on your electric rate. If you have peak times in your electric rate structure you can really get dinged.

It will be a very long time before electric can match gas for convenience.

While true, this statistic may be misleading without detail... Plus it is an old study; from 2012 thru 2018 I believe.
If course, this suggests 4 in 5 did not go back to ICE, right?
The key reasons cited for going back to ICE are:

• The early EVs had limited range, like 40 to 50 miles (Teslas have by far the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car and are the leaset to be replaced by an ICE)
• Owners had only 1 vehicle (all the owners I know have multiple cars)
• Charging if they were renters and especially if they only had street parking (I would not have an EV if I couldn't charge at home, and I have solar panels as electricity is stupid expensive in CA)
• They live in a area with less charging stations (CA has the largest buildout, but that's for Teslas only)

So yes, it is charging, but with strides in range extension and charging station build outs, the 20% number is dropping. Charging at home is the only way to go in my opinion. Condos and apartment buildings are lobbying for charging infrastructure around here. Of course no one has figured out how to help out the street parkers...

When people ask me about Tesla ownership, the 1st thing I ask them is, "How you gonna charge?". You might be surprised how many have a dumb look on their face. Seriously. I generally tell them, "These cars are expensive. You might be better off with a Civic for now..."