Ford Says Electric F-150 Will Start Under $40,000. It Can Also Power Your Home

If equality and vehicular diversity are our raisons d'etre, how to square gasoline/diesel road taxes with EVs? Electric cars pay none.

Maybe if we just all identify our ICE vehicles as EVs we can slide under the tax radar.
 
Well this exposes the fallacy of the selling of these things. “Just drive it and you will be sold.” That has been pushed here quite a bit but there is more to any vehicle ownershit. A $10k electrical upgrade is not anything to sneeze at either.

I owned an antique plug in many years with a whopping 40amp panel and had no real issues.

Unless his daily drive is 100+ miles and there are no public chargers he likely can make due with 110vac
ESPECIALLY if his work has an open 110v outlet .

Most BEV owners only have 110 but have access to some form of public or quick charger locally.

Before the state changed the title fees.
When I did the math on the $9999 Chevy Bolt I found I could do my long weekend trips (not up north mind you) with only 110v access because I have the ability to charge on 110 at work . My daily driver trips are usually under 10-20 miles so I would have a full charge by Wednesday or Thursday then could do my weekend thing with enough charge remaining to easily get back.

Next there is never a need to upgrade a panel for an EV
If L2 is convenient you can easily/cheaply make any circuit switchable be it an oven, water heater or dryer circuit . My father rigged the welder in the garage this way and he had under a $100 invested, just couldn’t run the dryer and welder at the same time.
You can then match the L2 EVSE to the available power
AKA The op likely doesn’t need the full capacity of his onboard charger to do his daily driving and the truck can charge at any speed .

you never financially make back what you pay in toward any charging upgrades, so it’s best to figure out what you need and not max it out.


If equality and vehicular diversity are our raisons d'etre, how to square gasoline/diesel road taxes with EVs? Electric cars pay none.

Maybe if we just all identify our ICE vehicles as EVs we can slide under the tax radar.

I don’t see what that nonsense has to do with anything and it’s patently false

the average gas economy car only pays $25-$50 annually on gas taxes in most areas.

Gas and registration taxes only cover a very small percentage of road costs and the rest comes from general funds.
In my area cement trucks, sand haulers, logging and taxis are road tax exempt, semi operators write off road taxes paying nothing.

Next Every municipality in the US charges the power producer a high municipal substation tax.
10-50% of consumer electric bills go to paying municipal substation taxes which is far higher in most cases than gas tax

With 2 exceptions…
all the red/orange states already charge EVs an annual fee that exceeds the amount normally paid by a typical gas economy car,
DBB4740B-B7DE-441E-B268-8DBB0D3ABF5D.png

If the government is worried about getting even more taxes they can easily manipulate municipal substation taxes (or any other myriad of taxes)

I find the concept of fair share laughable when those that do the most damage are subsidized by people who don’t even drive.

If we want fair and equitable and not regressive we should completely eliminate annual registration and find our way towards funding roads in a different way than a complex myriad of nonsense that costs more to administer than it receives.
 
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These kinds of large batteries are more than $10,000 as a replacement part I think. $10,000 isn’t anything. 😐
 
I owned an antique plug in many years with a whopping 40amp panel and had no real issues.

Unless his daily drive is 100+ miles and there are no public chargers he likely can make due with 110vac
ESPECIALLY if his work has an open 110v outlet .

Most BEV owners only have 110 but have access to some form of public or quick charger locally.

Before the state changed the title fees.
When I did the math on the $9999 Chevy Bolt I found I could do my long weekend trips (not up north mind you) with only 110v access because I have the ability to charge on 110 at work . My daily driver trips are usually under 10-20 miles so I would have a full charge by Wednesday or Thursday then could do my weekend thing with enough charge remaining to easily get back.

Next there is never a need to upgrade a panel for an EV
If L2 is convenient you can easily/cheaply make any circuit switchable be it an oven, water heater or dryer circuit . My father rigged the welder in the garage this way and he had under a $100 invested, just couldn’t run the dryer and welder at the same time.
You can then match the L2 EVSE to the available power
AKA The op likely doesn’t need the full capacity of his onboard charger to do his daily driving and the truck can charge at any speed .

you never financially make back what you pay in toward any charging upgrades, so it’s best to figure out what you need and not max it out.
What you say is true and likely doable for many people. IMO, if one chooses to buy and use an EV, go all in. Do it right the 1st time.
There are those who ran the numbers like this, with, I'm sure, a heavy dose of optimism.
As @PimTac posted, go in sensibly. Otherwise you might be caught with a beautiful F-150, Tesla or whatever that does not work for you.
A key reason some off load their EV within a short time is charging mis-calculations. Or even unconsideration....
 
A $10k electrical upgrade is not anything to sneeze at either.
There is no question the charging aspect needs to be considered, as apartment dwellers may not have a place to charge. And, I'm sure there are homes where the breaker panel is nowhere near the garage.

But the reality is that most homes do not need an upgrade to put in a dryer type outlet in the garage.

Range-per-Hour-of-Charging_Poster_20210309_FINAL_P2.jpg
 
IMO, a 110V outlet is a deal breaker. Maybe not for everyone, but for me it is. When I need the car I can't be sitting around waiting on 4-5 MPH charging...
Sharing a dryer outlet will work but is marginal at best. They make switch boxes that will not allow the car to get juice if the dryer is on. Probably fine if you use a gas dryer or the outlet is unused.
A dedicated 240V line is the way to go. A Wall Charger is optional if your car can accept that many amps or you have multiple EVs.

Teslas, and other EVs I'm sure, have programmable timers to set based on your charging needs. You learn...
If you have to upgrade your service box, then do it. If it is not in the budget, then you will have to compromise. If your service is that old, an upgrade is a good thing anyways.

Just be sure you know what you are getting into. Oh yeah, I love our solar panels...
 
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Problem with Target, gocery stores, etc is that I am not stopping there while traveling. I am only going to think about charging when I am 200+ miles from home. McDs is at every other exit on every highway on the East Coast.
You want them but they don't want you.

How much do you spend when you are there and how much does it cost for them to install the charger for you and how much do they need to make from you to justify that?

There's a reason along I5 from NorCal to SoCal we have Harris Ranch (steak house) with super charger instead of McD. They can justify the network selling you a steak but not a happy meal.
 
These kinds of large batteries are more than $10,000 as a replacement part I think. $10,000 isn’t anything. 😐
The math on that is based on the assumption of off peak kwh being cheaper than gasoline mpg.

Say we use PG&E in Bay Area as a reference. EV-A / EV-B rate has off peak 12am-7am rate of 13c/kwh, vs the 29c/kwh of flat rate tier 2 usage (pass 300kwh per month tier 1 quota). This 13c/kwh in theory would be cheaper than the $4.00/gal of 87 gas you get from a reputable station (say Arco, but they can be as high as $4.3/gal as of today from a name brand like Shell/Chevron).

Over the 15 years and 200k miles your 10k battery would deteriorate, and you will likely want to replace the battery if you want to drive another 15 years. Say you replace it at 15 years with another fresh pack for $7.5k, your cost for that 15 years would be 500 a year, that would be enough savings over the gas you purchased.

Now let's say you instead sell the car / truck at 15 years and your KBB is at 5k cheaper than your gas equivalent model, someone will buy it if they only need a short range truck instead of a fashion icon that can tow a boat and camping and go through all sorts of things and not stopping anywhere on earth due to range. This 5k discount will be enough to have someone keeping this truck for another 10 years for some local home depot run and not being a perfect does everything truck. It would likely be the better deal for you to sell it 5k cheaper and get the equivalent gas truck, or buy another new/newer battery truck, or whatever. Both the buyer and seller would come out ahead in theory. There would be a huge demand for them outside of US (they probably don't have 300 miles range requirement, or labor cost and liability like we do so they can refresh their battery pack much cheaper).

Or if you follow the early EV model: you lease them and let someone else take the depreciation, and your lease should save you enough gas money to justify the cost, and you can let the bank deal with the loss or you can buy it at the end of the lease if you like it.
 
This looks like a nice daily driver type truck but the towing range is going to be bad. Im guessing a fully loaded model is going to be close to F450 territory. You know, that other ford truck that can tow just about anything with tons range.
 
You want them but they don't want you.
Not sure I agree. Chargers are a great way to bring in shoppers and make 'em shop longer.
There is a Tesla SuperCharger station with maybe 20 stalls at a Petaluma Target shopping center.

The San Jose Almaden WalMart has chargers and is installing more. I haven't been there in a while...
 
Not sure I agree. Chargers are a great way to bring in shoppers and make 'em shop longer.
There is a Tesla SuperCharger station with maybe 20 stalls at a Petaluma Target shopping center.

The San Jose Almaden WalMart has chargers and is installing more. I haven't been there in a while...
For shopping mall and department store yes. Not for fast food.
 
You want them but they don't want you.

There's a reason along I5 from NorCal to SoCal we have Harris Ranch (steak house) with super charger instead of McD. They can justify the network selling you a steak but not a happy meal.

In areas that not only don’t have BEVS, don’t subsidize them and charge extra…

I have seen businesses make their outdoor outlets available with a little EV charger sign, in many cases it costs them nothing to implement but 10 cents an hour when occupied and makes plug in patrons happy, especially those with older ones.

Tesla is known to offer, install and maintain free chargers in areas where they have little presence, this is a great way to make hay for supermarkets and best of all a savy business can request them with not just TSLA but also with other charger standards free.

The key of all this is the establishment can easily limit cost and electrical “speeds” while still making a token gesture
For most businesses an ability to charge is most useful for employee use and is a cheap way to make a meaningless cheap gesture that is appreciated.
And oddly in a state without charge infrastructure Fast food and Kwik Trip are the only places with free albeit slow charging, key is it costs them almost nothing to offer even a 220vac 20 amp outlet.

I’ve even seen Some of the rural campgrounds have an off the books per hour “rental “ fee for passer by BEVs to have a picnic with power
My guess is any business can find a way to have their cake and eat it too without having a big $$$$ fire

This would include Fast Food and other low cost establishments since the very nature of charging allows the business to choose
How many
How fast
How long
And obviously how much $$$
 
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All is good except for fast food, parking space is not free. You can have Tesla offer to install a super charger in retailers and they would be happy. I live next to a Target with 10 stalls, yes it is great.

Fast food wants you gone after you drive through, or done eating. They don't want everyone to come and sat for 1 hr and take up space. What if 5 people comes wanting to charge and they only have 2 stalls? After eating they still couldn't get it? This is like the play area. It is great if your space is free I guess, but most McD I know are tearing them out now to avoid crowd not leaving.

At least so far I have never seen a fast food with charger. Department stores and malls definitely yes, with 10 to 20 stalls at a time too.
 
All is good, but folks have to tear away from the “gas station “ mode. You charge those things at home. If you live in an apartment or condo with no charger, you’ll just make things miserable. Too bad Seinfeld is not still on, they would cover the totally anal retentive issue of the trying to keep your car charged in New York.
 
All is good, but folks have to tear away from the “gas station “ mode. You charge those things at home. If you live in an apartment or condo with no charger, you’ll just make things miserable. Too bad Seinfeld is not still on, they would cover the totally anal retentive issue of the trying to keep your car charged in New York.


We are at a inflection point of sorts on the charger issue. Part of the problem in some areas is that people cannot afford houses so they are moving into apartments etc. Nobody around here is adding chargers to the parking lots.

A lot of this discussion is concentrated in bubbles like Silicon Valley. Most parts of civilization haven’t gone whole hog into the EV craze yet. Even here in the Seattle region, chargers are hit and miss , mostly missing once you get out of the actual city
 
For those who want a truck for just home Depot runs, it looks fine. For towing, I'm guessing the 230 mile range is about 1/2 that, plus you won't drive all the way to zero so what 70-80 mile range?

If you make it to the top of the mountain, it's free sailing from there lol
 
How does the truck get recharged when there is a brown out because the grid has insufficient capacity to with stand the A/C load on a warm day? When PG@E turns off the power on a windy day? Things to consider.
If you put all your eggs in one basket that’s on you. I’d personally just go drive my gasoline powered car when I can’t drive my electric car…. But we don’t really have that problem here.
 
All is good except for fast food, parking space is not free.

Fast food wants you gone after you drive through, or done eating. They don't want everyone to come and sat for 1 hr and take up space. What if 5 people comes wanting to charge and they only have 2 stalls?

In my area fast food does not allow you to eat inside , the only people parked work there or are eating in their car.

My thought is that EV stalls at fast food should be 110vac for employees in the least desirable portion of the lot.
 
I have said a bazillion times, these cars are not for everyone.
Silicon Valley, and CA as a whole, is the test ground for new cars and ideas.
EVs, as mass produced cars, are in their infancy.
 
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