You all sound like a gang of old women complaining
Ford Edge owners chime in
- Thread starter grampi
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Ws6
Re your SRT Jeep:
-It's louder than I would expect, at 69dB, per C&D at 70mph
Yup, I'm sure there are a ton of folks out there that buy an SRT and then proceed to complain that it's not exactly whisper quiet.
He literally just said "it's very quiet".
I don't really know how more pertinent my observation could possibly be.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Re your SRT Jeep:
-It's louder than I would expect, at 69dB, per C&D at 70mph
Yup, I'm sure there are a ton of folks out there that buy an SRT and then proceed to complain that it's not exactly whisper quiet.
He literally just said "it's very quiet".
I don't really know how more pertinent my observation could possibly be.
Originally Posted by dan_erickson
You all sound like a gang of old women complaining
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/02/full-20020-41687-opld.jpg "[Linked Image]")
]
You all sound like a gang of old women complaining
]
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ws6
Your links prove my point. Mazda owners are concerned about a slight mirror vibration. Jeep owners all about "I'm loosing coolant..." "My oil is leaking out", "Maybe my engine's internals have failed". etc. You can say "Oh, those are all 8-9 years old", but those Jeep Cherokees aren't, and their forum is the same.
Do you legitimately want me to comb through and find more threads with major issues? And yes, on the WK2 forum, all the major concerns like leaks were on vehicles approaching 10 years, that's relevant. I don't care about the Cherokee, I was specifically speaking as to the WK2 Grand Cherokee, which is what I own, what was mentioned, and what you dumped on.
Originally Posted by Ws6
The worst thing you linked to in the Mazda forum is a daytime running light not working
As I said, I just combed through the first 40 threads and picked up the ones that cited problems. All of the Mazda units seem to be newer than the Jeeps being discussed and the number of issues was roughly the same. Other than the common thread being that the number of issues was pretty small, everything else was pretty divergent with a lot of the Jeep talk discussing lifts and off-road mods, which didn't appear to come up on the Mazda forum. Different focus; different end users.
Originally Posted by Ws6
and Mazda doing an ACTUAL RECALL to fix it, unlike FCA, who just band-aids their problems and doesn't care about their product of the customer, just loss of life lawsuits.
A number of Mazda class-action lawsuits on that site too, guess Mazda doesn't care THAT much
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...-traffic-alert-software-stopped-working/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...class-action-alleges-smart-brake-defect/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...tion-dismiss-faulty-clutch-class-action/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...n-alleges-daytime-running-lights-defect/
Was it the above CAL for the daytime running lights that prompted the recall?
Originally Posted by Ws6
I get it, your sample of 3 that you never even put any real miles on was good. That's awesome, man. A low mileage sample of 3. Congrats?
I mean your benchmark here is your used sample of 1 that had almost 70,000 miles on when you bought it and use it to judge a completely different platform which I've actually owned so...
Originally Posted by Ws6
I'll side with the preponderance of owners vs. 1 guy on a forum who has had 3 cherry examples with no miles on them.
Cool. And we could stop having these discussions all together if you'd give your slagging a rest. I know you had a bad go with your WK, I am pretty sure everybody on the board does at this juncture.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Re your SRT Jeep:
-It's louder than I would expect, at 69dB, per C&D at 70mph
Well, it has no real mufflers, just straight-through resonators with a hollow X-pipe style "suitcase" in the centre and it doesn't have the active exhaust, so as far as the exhaust goes, it's not silent. You don't hear any wind noise or road noise however, so in that sense, it is quite insulated; quite quiet.
Originally Posted by Ws6
-The materials DO look nice and feel nice. I am a huge fan of suede.
Yes, I'm a big fan of most of the materials. My 2016 had a full extended leather interior, which included suede pillars and headliner. They have discontinued that headliner option as my 2020 was ordered with extended leather as well, so it has leather dash, door bits, suede inserts in the doors, leather centre console...etc. but doesn't have the headliner. The one thing they improved after 2016 was the elimination of the white stitching on the leather dash. It would reflect in the windshield which could, in certain situations, get annoying.
Originally Posted by Ws6
-When you say feature rich...what features does it have that are functional (by functional, I mean actually useful, meaningful, etc. such as "radar cruise control" vs. "I like the multi-color gauges"?) Have they put cooled seats, HUD, etc. in them yet?
- Radar (adaptive) cruise control
- Park Assist
- Lane departure
- Auto braking (forward and reverse)
- Blind spot monitoring
- Heated/cooled memory front seats and heated wheel, heated rear seats
- Full set of digital "gauges" in the uConnect system for tracking pretty much any interesting operating parameter
- Auto-dimming mirrors
- Auto lights with a separate sensor for the cluster lights, so the gauges don't go dim when the lights come on, they go dim when it is much darker. This is new. Also has auto high beams
- Different drive modes: Snow, Sport, Track...etc including the ability to program your own. You can change shift firmness, damper firmness, throttle response, AWD power split, steering effort and stability control.
- Auto-levelling HID's
- Navigation stuff in the cluster
- Rain sensing wipers/Auto wipers
They haven't put in a HUD, which was something I found really cool about the Audi E-Tron when I was test driving it. A number of these features were also present on my 2001 M5. My SRT Charger had heated/cooled cup holders, but the GC doesn't have that, and it isn't an option. A lot of this stuff is standard luxury fare which is why I found it amusing when I was looking at the AMG Mercedes SUV that had the "Sport" package that the wheel wasn't heated
Your links prove my point. Mazda owners are concerned about a slight mirror vibration. Jeep owners all about "I'm loosing coolant..." "My oil is leaking out", "Maybe my engine's internals have failed". etc. You can say "Oh, those are all 8-9 years old", but those Jeep Cherokees aren't, and their forum is the same.
Do you legitimately want me to comb through and find more threads with major issues? And yes, on the WK2 forum, all the major concerns like leaks were on vehicles approaching 10 years, that's relevant. I don't care about the Cherokee, I was specifically speaking as to the WK2 Grand Cherokee, which is what I own, what was mentioned, and what you dumped on.
Originally Posted by Ws6
The worst thing you linked to in the Mazda forum is a daytime running light not working
As I said, I just combed through the first 40 threads and picked up the ones that cited problems. All of the Mazda units seem to be newer than the Jeeps being discussed and the number of issues was roughly the same. Other than the common thread being that the number of issues was pretty small, everything else was pretty divergent with a lot of the Jeep talk discussing lifts and off-road mods, which didn't appear to come up on the Mazda forum. Different focus; different end users.
Originally Posted by Ws6
and Mazda doing an ACTUAL RECALL to fix it, unlike FCA, who just band-aids their problems and doesn't care about their product of the customer, just loss of life lawsuits.
A number of Mazda class-action lawsuits on that site too, guess Mazda doesn't care THAT much
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...-traffic-alert-software-stopped-working/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...class-action-alleges-smart-brake-defect/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...tion-dismiss-faulty-clutch-class-action/
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...n-alleges-daytime-running-lights-defect/
Was it the above CAL for the daytime running lights that prompted the recall?
Originally Posted by Ws6
I get it, your sample of 3 that you never even put any real miles on was good. That's awesome, man. A low mileage sample of 3. Congrats?
I mean your benchmark here is your used sample of 1 that had almost 70,000 miles on when you bought it and use it to judge a completely different platform which I've actually owned so...
Originally Posted by Ws6
I'll side with the preponderance of owners vs. 1 guy on a forum who has had 3 cherry examples with no miles on them.
Cool. And we could stop having these discussions all together if you'd give your slagging a rest. I know you had a bad go with your WK, I am pretty sure everybody on the board does at this juncture.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Re your SRT Jeep:
-It's louder than I would expect, at 69dB, per C&D at 70mph
Well, it has no real mufflers, just straight-through resonators with a hollow X-pipe style "suitcase" in the centre and it doesn't have the active exhaust, so as far as the exhaust goes, it's not silent. You don't hear any wind noise or road noise however, so in that sense, it is quite insulated; quite quiet.
Originally Posted by Ws6
-The materials DO look nice and feel nice. I am a huge fan of suede.
Yes, I'm a big fan of most of the materials. My 2016 had a full extended leather interior, which included suede pillars and headliner. They have discontinued that headliner option as my 2020 was ordered with extended leather as well, so it has leather dash, door bits, suede inserts in the doors, leather centre console...etc. but doesn't have the headliner. The one thing they improved after 2016 was the elimination of the white stitching on the leather dash. It would reflect in the windshield which could, in certain situations, get annoying.
Originally Posted by Ws6
-When you say feature rich...what features does it have that are functional (by functional, I mean actually useful, meaningful, etc. such as "radar cruise control" vs. "I like the multi-color gauges"?) Have they put cooled seats, HUD, etc. in them yet?
- Radar (adaptive) cruise control
- Park Assist
- Lane departure
- Auto braking (forward and reverse)
- Blind spot monitoring
- Heated/cooled memory front seats and heated wheel, heated rear seats
- Full set of digital "gauges" in the uConnect system for tracking pretty much any interesting operating parameter
- Auto-dimming mirrors
- Auto lights with a separate sensor for the cluster lights, so the gauges don't go dim when the lights come on, they go dim when it is much darker. This is new. Also has auto high beams
- Different drive modes: Snow, Sport, Track...etc including the ability to program your own. You can change shift firmness, damper firmness, throttle response, AWD power split, steering effort and stability control.
- Auto-levelling HID's
- Navigation stuff in the cluster
- Rain sensing wipers/Auto wipers
They haven't put in a HUD, which was something I found really cool about the Audi E-Tron when I was test driving it. A number of these features were also present on my 2001 M5. My SRT Charger had heated/cooled cup holders, but the GC doesn't have that, and it isn't an option. A lot of this stuff is standard luxury fare which is why I found it amusing when I was looking at the AMG Mercedes SUV that had the "Sport" package that the wheel wasn't heated
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
No need for a huge reply to this, I'll just say that like with any brand, they produce some good products and some not-so-good ones. I maintain that the LX cars (300, Charger, Challenger), the WK2 (Durango, Grand Cherokee) as well as the vans and RAM trucks are all pretty decent. The rest of the stuff runs the gamut from disaster (Dart) to just "meh" like the Journey. Seems the stuff based on platforms developed while they were with Mercedes, particularly near the end like the WK2, are better overall. Mazda has done a pretty good job of avoiding that level of disparity in their lineup and standout things that we harp on about here like Honda's VCM disaster or Ford's DCT transmission debacle...etc. Biggest gripe I usually hear about Mazda is rust. I have a buddy at work who owns a 3 and a CX-5 and other than wheel bearings, I think they've been pretty problem-free, so I get why you like yours.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
No need for a huge reply to this, I'll just say that like with any brand, they produce some good products and some not-so-good ones. I maintain that the LX cars (300, Charger, Challenger), the WK2 (Durango, Grand Cherokee) as well as the vans and RAM trucks are all pretty decent. The rest of the stuff runs the gamut from disaster (Dart) to just "meh" like the Journey. Seems the stuff based on platforms developed while they were with Mercedes, particularly near the end like the WK2, are better overall. Mazda has done a pretty good job of avoiding that level of disparity in their lineup and standout things that we harp on about here like Honda's VCM disaster or Ford's DCT transmission debacle...etc. Biggest gripe I usually hear about Mazda is rust. I have a buddy at work who owns a 3 and a CX-5 and other than wheel bearings, I think they've been pretty problem-free, so I get why you like yours.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
No need for a huge reply to this, I'll just say that like with any brand, they produce some good products and some not-so-good ones. I maintain that the LX cars (300, Charger, Challenger), the WK2 (Durango, Grand Cherokee) as well as the vans and RAM trucks are all pretty decent. The rest of the stuff runs the gamut from disaster (Dart) to just "meh" like the Journey. Seems the stuff based on platforms developed while they were with Mercedes, particularly near the end like the WK2, are better overall. Mazda has done a pretty good job of avoiding that level of disparity in their lineup and standout things that we harp on about here like Honda's VCM disaster or Ford's DCT transmission debacle...etc. Biggest gripe I usually hear about Mazda is rust. I have a buddy at work who owns a 3 and a CX-5 and other than wheel bearings, I think they've been pretty problem-free, so I get why you like yours.
The Mazda rust was a materials issue that was indeed real, but was rectified. So far no wheel bearing issues, but with the torque mine has, it may well rear its head. That long has been my FCA issue. Assembly quality, and materials quality. Notice how I've never attacked a specific model's design, only raw materials or assembly, and honestly, the panel gaps and so forth were pretty great even on my 2010. When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
YourBigPost
Let me address all this below concisely so you can chop/edit for size of post in reply:
-Sounds like you have all the same stuff as my CX5 has, more or less, regarding features (give or take here and there). Not bad, given the age of the WK2 platform! I always have thought that Chrysler did well with amenities.
-Mainly I like the suede for seats. It's grippy like cloth, easy to maintain, etc.
-I really wish they had put adaptive exhaust in it. Loved that feature on my Z06, and for the price, it's a sin.
-Everyone has lawsuits against them, but Jeep had a Trail Rated (something they made up, btw) vehicle that disabled its AWD/4WD Low with their recall. That's literally removing the one feature your vehicle is known for.
-The Mazda recall on the LED running lights, I don't know what prompted the recall, but it was a known issue for sure.
-My sample of 1 is personally owned. I also worked at a dealership for a year. Trends emerge.
-This isn't about MY Jeep. It's about Chrysler as a company, and their lackluster products year after year after year when it comes to reliability studies in the industry, as a whole.
-That is wild that an AMG didn't have a heated steering wheel. Wow.
-I had HUD in my Z06 and never really cared. I got HUD in my CX5, and honestly use it a lot. Mainly because it throws all the NAV turn-by-turn and distances to turns, etc. up on the windshield and that's nice in unfamiliar cities not to have to look at the screen/road/screen/road.
I also maintain that SRT products are NOT typical Chrysler products. They get quality parts (Bilsteins, etc. as an example) and their price reflects that. I continue to be intrigued by the SRT Jeeps, but I just cannot justify it given the mpg and how much I drive and Chrysler dealers everywhere I've ever been. Shops always backlogged fixing stuff. Service is a pain.
Regardless, every vehicle I have owned has accurately paralleled CR, and even if it didn't, it's all about the odds. You may have a Daewoo with 700K miles on it...but that means nothing. I may have a Toyota Camry that fell apart at 20K miles. Means nothing. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, FCA products are typically mid-pack at best, and typically lower end, regarding reliability. I have found that since I moved to a place that typically ranks nationally in the top 5 areas to live, and drive a vehicle that leads its class and is made by one of the top 3 for the last 3 years running in CR, and so on and so forth, that life has just been...better? Odds favoring you is never bad.
No need for a huge reply to this, I'll just say that like with any brand, they produce some good products and some not-so-good ones. I maintain that the LX cars (300, Charger, Challenger), the WK2 (Durango, Grand Cherokee) as well as the vans and RAM trucks are all pretty decent. The rest of the stuff runs the gamut from disaster (Dart) to just "meh" like the Journey. Seems the stuff based on platforms developed while they were with Mercedes, particularly near the end like the WK2, are better overall. Mazda has done a pretty good job of avoiding that level of disparity in their lineup and standout things that we harp on about here like Honda's VCM disaster or Ford's DCT transmission debacle...etc. Biggest gripe I usually hear about Mazda is rust. I have a buddy at work who owns a 3 and a CX-5 and other than wheel bearings, I think they've been pretty problem-free, so I get why you like yours.
The Mazda rust was a materials issue that was indeed real, but was rectified. So far no wheel bearing issues, but with the torque mine has, it may well rear its head. That long has been my FCA issue. Assembly quality, and materials quality. Notice how I've never attacked a specific model's design, only raw materials or assembly, and honestly, the panel gaps and so forth were pretty great even on my 2010. When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ws6
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
What about all the bushings and seals and gaskets and stuff throughout the vehicle? That's what I had issues with. The UConnect was actually pretty awesome. It was the leaking, dripping, rotting of the vehicle around the HEMI and UConnect that I hated.
Originally Posted by Ws6
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
What about all the bushings and seals and gaskets and stuff throughout the vehicle? That's what I had issues with. The UConnect was actually pretty awesome. It was the leaking, dripping, rotting of the vehicle around the HEMI and UConnect that I hated.
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
The new ones are a new generation. The RAV4 was 2020. In my post I said "brand new" "last month" so this should have been clear...
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
The new ones are a new generation. The RAV4 was 2020. In my post I said "brand new" "last month" so this should have been clear...
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dogememe
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
The new ones are a new generation. The RAV4 was 2020. In my post I said "brand new" "last month" so this should have been clear...
I was honestly kinda bummed I bought a CX5 as I did so before the new RAV dropped. I thought it would be amazing. It isn't. I'm glad I ended up where I did. I wonder if the PRIME will fix all of the complaints and issues, t hough?
Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by dogememe
If we're making blanket statements about automakers, well, all Toyotas must suck because the brand new rental RAV4 we had for a day last month was the biggest piece of junk I've ever driven. Overall quality of everything touchable was awful. The lift gate felt like it was going to fall apart every time it was opened or closed. The interior was terrible. The suspension sucked. The drivetrain sounded and performed poorly. Vs my 10 year old Escape with over 100k miles which is literally better in every way than that RAV4 with maybe 5k miles on it.
As for the Edge, well, I know two people with the Lincoln version. No complaints. One still has his and the other sold it because he needed something with better towing capacity but otherwise it was good. Neither had any major repairs or unreasonable maintenance. I haven't driven either but I've ridden in them and I found it a decent ride.
They are still pretty long though. If you have a hard time parking your Sienna you might want to check out the Escape. It doesn't ride as nice as the Edge but it's super easy to park in small spots.
The RAV4 seems to have been a rare swing and huge miss for Toyota. This is indeed the general consensus.
I don't know, my daughter has a 2017 Rav and she loves it...
The new ones are a new generation. The RAV4 was 2020. In my post I said "brand new" "last month" so this should have been clear...
I was honestly kinda bummed I bought a CX5 as I did so before the new RAV dropped. I thought it would be amazing. It isn't. I'm glad I ended up where I did. I wonder if the PRIME will fix all of the complaints and issues, t hough?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
What about all the bushings and seals and gaskets and stuff throughout the vehicle? That's what I had issues with. The UConnect was actually pretty awesome. It was the leaking, dripping, rotting of the vehicle around the HEMI and UConnect that I hated.
Yes, I believe that's been changed as well. I believe the SRT's got upgraded parts in that respect though, as I recall SteveSRT8 is still on his original bushings and stuff on his 300.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
When I mean assembly, I mean their sourced subassemblies, which I believe you DID say were changed?
Yes, they changed suppliers for the uConnect assembly for example to Panasonic in I believe 2018?
What about all the bushings and seals and gaskets and stuff throughout the vehicle? That's what I had issues with. The UConnect was actually pretty awesome. It was the leaking, dripping, rotting of the vehicle around the HEMI and UConnect that I hated.
Yes, I believe that's been changed as well. I believe the SRT's got upgraded parts in that respect though, as I recall SteveSRT8 is still on his original bushings and stuff on his 300.
Originally Posted by wdn
Of the first generstion Edge (pre-2015), Consumer Reports said this:
Quote
Edge is a marginal performer in Consumer Reports' tests (scoring 66 out of 100 points), with much-worse-than-average reliability, subpar refinement and dynamics, and worse-than-average owner costs.
I take CR reviews with a grain of salt, and I've been a magazine subscriber for 25 years. Other good sources for vehicle reviews continue to be edmunds.com and kbb.com.
Gramp, good luck with your vehicle shopping.
Of the first generstion Edge (pre-2015), Consumer Reports said this:
Quote
Edge is a marginal performer in Consumer Reports' tests (scoring 66 out of 100 points), with much-worse-than-average reliability, subpar refinement and dynamics, and worse-than-average owner costs.
I take CR reviews with a grain of salt, and I've been a magazine subscriber for 25 years. Other good sources for vehicle reviews continue to be edmunds.com and kbb.com.
Gramp, good luck with your vehicle shopping.
Originally Posted by grampi
I have learned to take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. They always rate the imports better than the domestics, and most of the time by a wide margin, when in reality I'm not seeing that much of a gap anymore. Are the imports better? In some cases, yes, but it isn't night and day like it used to be in the past, and not like CR's ratings would have you believe...
You are free to believe whatever you like, however the Consumer Reports reliability ratings all come from surveys sent in by actual owners of those vehicles, who once put down their own good money just like you are about to, including the Ford Edge. Those are not the same guys writing the magazine articles, they are the car owners themselves. But, it's your money.
I have learned to take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. They always rate the imports better than the domestics, and most of the time by a wide margin, when in reality I'm not seeing that much of a gap anymore. Are the imports better? In some cases, yes, but it isn't night and day like it used to be in the past, and not like CR's ratings would have you believe...
You are free to believe whatever you like, however the Consumer Reports reliability ratings all come from surveys sent in by actual owners of those vehicles, who once put down their own good money just like you are about to, including the Ford Edge. Those are not the same guys writing the magazine articles, they are the car owners themselves. But, it's your money.
Originally Posted by wdn
Originally Posted by grampi
I have learned to take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. They always rate the imports better than the domestics, and most of the time by a wide margin, when in reality I'm not seeing that much of a gap anymore. Are the imports better? In some cases, yes, but it isn't night and day like it used to be in the past, and not like CR's ratings would have you believe...
You are free to believe whatever you like, however the Consumer Reports reliability ratings all come from surveys sent in by actual owners of those vehicles, who once put down their own good money just like you are about to, including the Ford Edge. Those are not the same guys writing the magazine articles, they are the car owners themselves. But, it's your money.
But...are they bitog forum members? Lolz!
I get such a kick out of "I owned 3 and they were fine...ignore the 3500 surveys indicating otherwise " mentality on here.
Originally Posted by grampi
I have learned to take CR's ratings with a grain of salt. They always rate the imports better than the domestics, and most of the time by a wide margin, when in reality I'm not seeing that much of a gap anymore. Are the imports better? In some cases, yes, but it isn't night and day like it used to be in the past, and not like CR's ratings would have you believe...
You are free to believe whatever you like, however the Consumer Reports reliability ratings all come from surveys sent in by actual owners of those vehicles, who once put down their own good money just like you are about to, including the Ford Edge. Those are not the same guys writing the magazine articles, they are the car owners themselves. But, it's your money.
But...are they bitog forum members? Lolz!
I get such a kick out of "I owned 3 and they were fine...ignore the 3500 surveys indicating otherwise " mentality on here.
Surveys are not real data of reliability but they do a great job masquerading as such. And there is no way of knowing how much screening is going on with these surveys anyways. When you have models thar are mechanically very similar, but with different brand names and they are far apart as far as reliability goes, the data is tainted.
If all these companies truly were on the side of customers, they would obtain warranty repair data. That's the only imperical source of problem data. But it will never happen.
If all these companies truly were on the side of customers, they would obtain warranty repair data. That's the only imperical source of problem data. But it will never happen.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Surveys are not real data of reliability but they do a great job masquerading as such. And there is no way of knowing how much screening is going on with these surveys anyways. When you have models thar are mechanically very similar, but with different brand names and they are far apart as far as reliability goes, the data is tainted.
If all these companies truly were on the side of customers, they would obtain warranty repair data. That's the only imperical source of problem data. But it will never happen.
Amen. I remember when my parents were getting CR and just laughing at otherwise identical vehicles being rated vastly different.
Surveys are not real data of reliability but they do a great job masquerading as such. And there is no way of knowing how much screening is going on with these surveys anyways. When you have models thar are mechanically very similar, but with different brand names and they are far apart as far as reliability goes, the data is tainted.
If all these companies truly were on the side of customers, they would obtain warranty repair data. That's the only imperical source of problem data. But it will never happen.
Amen. I remember when my parents were getting CR and just laughing at otherwise identical vehicles being rated vastly different.
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