For the Smoothie fans - Very interesting research on negative nutrition effect from adding Bananas

[Oro_O]

I know there are smoothie fans here and we’ve discussed it a few different ways. I just read some very interesting research findings regarding using bananas in smoothies. It was significant enough I thought I would share it. I DID read the relevant parts of the base study from UC Davis and I’ll summarize that and link it below.

Bottom line first: Adding a banana to your smoothie will almost completely destroy most of the antioxidant flavonol content you would be getting from the berries, greens, etc.

Why?: The maceration (grinding/mixing together) exposes the flanonols to the PPO (polyphenol oxidase) of the banana - the chemical that turns them, and avocados, etc., brown. The PPO oxidizes the flavonols and functionally destroys them. It is very effective at this.

Take away: If you use banana in your smoothie, consume it immediately upon mixing and don’t store it. The nutritional degradation starts right away but is pretty complete in 20 to 30 minutes. Consider removing it from the smoothie recipe, or eating it separately, which reduces the effect.

They used a standard, tested dose of flavonols from cocoa in a banana smoothie vs a berry-only smoothie and tested the levels of serum flavonols at hourly increments. They used relatively healthy, fit, young men and this was a real human test, not simply a lab one with an uncertain in-body result.

The bananas and berries were all frozen before mixing, so the result was not highly temperature dependent as I was hoping. Personally, I’ll keep doing what I’m doing (1/4 to 1/3 of a frozen banana - much less than the study usage of a whole banana), but I will stop making a double batch and saving 1/2 for hours later.

Here are the results of the flavonol content of control and banana/non-banana smoothies (from study linked below):

The oxidative damage starts right away and is very complete in 20 to 30 minutes (from study linked below):

Here is the original article I ran across:
https://www.health.com/common-smoothie-mistake-7970159

Here is the study from UC Davis:
https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2023/FO/D3FO01599H

 

[Passport1]

An unexpected paradoxical reaction. What is the effect on my preferred smoothie the banana daiquiri?

 

[Oro_O]

An unexpected paradoxical reaction. What is the effect on my preferred smoothie the banana daiquiri?

Well, looks like you might be safe. It appears in the rock-paper-scissors biochem death match, ethanol may indeed trump your PPO/banana contender.

Looks like the Chinese have shown ethanol to be very effective is stopping PPO damage to produce, specifically lotus root in this case:

 

[vavavroom]

I have so much to say but I'm not willing to waste my time.

 

[JHZR2]

This is actually very interesting info since bananas are a common and easy way to sweeten up smoothies. My wife tends to use mango, and perhaps that’s for the best!

 

[wrcsixeight]

Interesting.

sorry for a tangential topic.
Know of any studies on how quickly Vinegar destroys nutrients in raw super thinly sliced, redwine vinegar soaked onions, multiple different spicy peppers jalpeno, serrano, red chile, hungarian wax, cubanelo, poblano, habanero......garlic, tomatoes carrotts, celery, olive oil and spices.

I know the vinegar attenuates some of the peppers's heat, with time, and that long term pickling destroys most nutrients.

I make a fairy large batch of my 'fire salad' once a week, adding more tomatoes as my dad will 'liberate' those, and they are the core ingredient.
I love the flavor, and it can induce the kind of BMs which feel good even 2 hours after, but I wonder how much nutrient value of the ingredients are destroyed, and how quickly they are, by the Red wine vinegar.
So far I've found little to no info on this so hearing bbmnannas can negte the good stuff in berries makes me wonder if you've come across similar regarding other food comboes.

 

[MrQuackers]

I saw this thread and moseyed over to the kitchen to make a banana, mango, blueberry flax smoothie, yum

 

[Oro_O]

Interesting.

sorry for a tangential topic.
Know of any studies on how quickly Vinegar destroys nutrients in raw super thinly sliced, redwine vinegar soaked onions, multiple different spicy peppers jalpeno, serrano, red chile, hungarian wax, cubanelo, poblano, habanero......garlic, tomatoes carrotts, celery, olive oil and spices.

I know the vinegar attenuates some of the peppers's heat, with time, and that long term pickling destroys most nutrients.

I make a fairy large batch of my 'fire salad' once a week, adding more tomatoes as my dad will 'liberate' those, and they are the core ingredient.
I love the flavor, and it can induce the kind of BMs which feel good even 2 hours after, but I wonder how much nutrient value of the ingredients are destroyed, and how quickly they are, by the Red wine vinegar.
So far I've found little to no info on this so hearing bbmnannas can negte the good stuff in berries makes me wonder if you've come across similar regarding other food comboes.

My understanding is that the majority of nutrients in pickled foods remain. Acetic acid is a really weak acid in general, and vinegar is a very weak solution of it (5% on average, I think), plus that is diluted again for a pickling solution. It damages water soluble vitamins over time, but not a lot of or all the nutrients. That’s all I really know about that subject.

As an aside about vinegar, I WAS curious recently how truly different unfiltered or organic apple cider vinegar was vs the basic, much cheaper store-brand ACV sitting next to them on the shelves. I found a very thorough Spanish study on exactly that, and the answer was there really was NOT a huge difference, in either probiotic profile or concentration.

 

[vavavroom]

Banana smoothie for maximum weight gain and with total disregard for your liver:

1 large banana
1 pint of ice cream
heavy cream for drinkability
maple syrup is optional for ultra-gains



Best sweetener for low-carb, low-cal smoothies is inulin (polysaccharide from chicory root, 0 carbs, low-cal). 1/10 the sweetness of sugar for an equal amount of volume. It's a really good prebiotic. Cheap as chips.

Low-carb yogurt smoothie

strained plain yogurt (the whey contains most of the lactose, so good riddance)
fresh or frozen berries
chia seed
inulin
filk (fake milk) to taste

For Pablo, my natto-and-raw-egg smoothie;

1 package of natto
2 raw eggs
some seaweed
tomato or vegetable juice
Blend vigorously until foamy
Down the hatch - you'll be feeling alive. Noobs should probably wear a diaper.

 

[PandaBear]

Am I the only one who's mostly concerned about smoothie's sugar content?

 

[vavavroom]

Am I the only one who's mostly concerned about smoothie's sugar content?

Sugar is the fiscally responsible choice.

 

[Oro_O]

Banana smoothie for maximum weight gain and with total disregard for your liver:

1 large banana
1 pint of ice cream
heavy cream for drinkability
maple syrup is optional for ultra-gains



Best sweetener for low-carb, low-cal smoothies is inulin (polysaccharide from chicory root, 0 carbs, low-cal). 1/10 the sweetness of sugar for an equal amount of volume. It's a really good prebiotic. Cheap as chips.

Low-carb yogurt smoothie

strained plain yogurt (the whey contains most of the lactose, so good riddance)
fresh or frozen berries
chia seed
inulin
filk (fake milk) to taste

For Pablo, my natto-and-raw-egg smoothie;

1 package of natto
2 raw eggs
some seaweed
tomato or vegetable juice
Blend vigorously until foamy
Down the hatch - you'll be feeling alive. Noobs should probably wear a diaper.

Since we are now swappin’ recipes, this is my long-perfected smoothie of choice:

Good solid handful of spinach
- 1/2 cup almond milk
- 1/2 cup water
- 1/2 cup ice

Blend that to chop spinach, so the mixer does not jam, then add:

1 tbsp of 50/50 flax/chia seed mix ( keep in a cup on the shelf)
1/3 of a banana, frozen
Whatever berries/fruits are fresh - strawberries, blueberries ideally, about 1/2 cup
1/2 of the provided scoop measure of Muscle Milk Chocolate (30g?)
Splash of Kefir (for gut health)

Blend that last stuff in until creamy.

i do this an hour before lifting, then an ECA stack. workouts are fun and always positive gains on reps or weight.

Do the whole thing again after getting home as a recovery drink.

I spent a lot of time working up this recipe from internet recipes and personal use, also then cross-referencing nutrition data. It works great for me; really great.

 

[Pablo]

I am not a banana fan so all good here!

 

[vavavroom]

The negative effect bananas have on the nutrition of your smoothie is blown wholly out of proportion. All the study concluded was that enzymes in a banana will lower the bioavailability of some epicatechins. If you want epicatechins in your diet, and you should, I suggest you drink a daily cup of green tea which has a much higher epicatechin content compared to a banana.

Catechins, and there are several types, are flavenoids which are polyphenolic secondary metabolites of plants. Plants produce these compounds as a reaction to environmental stress and they gain a survival advantage from these compounds. Many polyphenolic secondary metabolites are toxins.

You can look up a list of foods other than green tea that are high in catechins and epicatechins. Things like beans, berries, cherries, apples, apricots, red wine, and dark chocolate,

 

[Pablo]

I eat them all and still I don’t like bananas

 

[vavavroom]

I eat them all and still I don’t like bananas

So you don't find bananas rather a-peeling then?

 

[Pablo]

So you don't find bananas rather a-peeling then?

I don’t eat them for the K, k?

 

[ATex7239]

This is interesting. I eat bananas more than any other fruit, but mostly by itself or as something sweet after a meal.

This thread reminds me of a quote from a nutritionist that I heard once about rice, paraphrasing, “if you get to the point where the micro nutrient difference between brown rice vs white rice makes a difference, you have reached a new level of health and fitness that I no longer can help you with.”

Basically, the point he was trying to make is that yes it can be measured via data, but you are more than likely never going to be able to discern any difference in physical performance or health. And if you can, you don’t need the nutritionist anymore.

 

[vavavroom]

I don’t eat them for the K, k?

I eat avos and spinach for K.

 

[Pablo]

I eat avos and spinach for K.

I will from time to time eat a little cooked plantain, sometime maybe half small banana.