Fleetguard Venturi Combo Filters??

[tjbeggs]

I posted this in the full flow section too but this fits both places. let me know what you think.

New here but have a filter question. I have a 1997 Ford f-350 7.3 Powerstroke diesel with 225,000 miles on it. I just switched to Rotella 5W40 synethetic and the Fleetguard LF9027 Venturi Combo filters. these have the stratapore full flow media and a stacked disc bypass filter section in the bottom of the filter.

I am looking for atleast 10k OCI. Anybody have any feedback on these filters? I plan on UOA every 5k till I get a track record going but I am wondering if these filter seem to be good and what change intervals with the oil and filters?

thanks
Tim

 

[Gary Allan]

Sounds interesting. It doesn't xref to anything so I can't get a grip on the spec's. Keep us posted on the results.

 

[tjbeggs]

thanks Gary. I tried cross it a few different places but they are the only one offering anything like it so far as I can tell. I will keep you posted on what I find out. just started using them last week so it will take a while to get some miles logged.

 

[calbrewin]

I read a little about these filters some months back, but did not see anyone selling them.

Are you getting them at a Cummins shop? How much do they cost? TIA, Tom.

 

[tjbeggs]

got a case of 12 from my international dealer. My cost at wholesale is $27 a piece, retail at around $45

 

[RalphPWood]

Wow, It's a Venturi Combo filter with a strataporefull flow media. Fleetguard uses chopped newspapers in their best bypass filter. If the bypass filter part of a combination filter is dense enough to clean oil it will simply clog and the filter will become a straight full flow filter. We are starting to see more filters on the market that actually work. They all have hoses running to them. If you don't like dealing with hoses you need to love dirty oil, routine oil drains and engine wear. I'm not an expert on oil but most of the engines that have over a million miles on them use conventional oil.
It's all marketing. No one is in the business of making an engine last longer.

 

[tjbeggs]

ralph I can't seem to pull the point out of your post. Really I am not trying to be a jerk just trying to figure out where you stand. I think you are saying the filter are a bunch of hype. Is that right?

And why would you think that a bypass filter with hose running to it are any better than one stuck in the bottom of a full flow filter?

Also one reason I am now running 5W40 sythetic is it has better cold flow properties, from what I understand, and that really helps with cold start-up with my hydrualic actuated injectors to get going when it in the single digit temps here in michigan.

 

[tjbeggs]

also ralph I just noticed your site sponsorship with motor guard. SO unless you have independant third party data to back up your claims they don't hold alot of weight in my book. Another bypass filter is competition to you so that means your bias.

But if you do have data to back up your claims I would love to see it. as well as anybody else who has any ideas.

 

[handyman]

Ralph has said before “The finer the filter, the faster it will clog up” I would think that a bypass filter built into a regular filter would be ok but
(1) The bypass filter part would clog first.
(2) How would you know that the bypass filter is clogged?

Don’t be too hard on Ralph. He has been into bypass filters longer than any of us. I believe he has the finest filtering bypass filters out there.

Ralph is not into bypass filters for the money. He sometimes rambles but we all do sometimes.

Check out his past posts. He puts out a lot of good information.


You can get a bypass filter to go longer by filtering less.

People don’t like dealing with hoses


Look at the change interval for his filters. This is from his website.

How often will I need to change my Motor Guard filter?
The change interval depends on several things. Normally an 8 cylinder will need a filter change every 2,000 miles; a 6 every 3,000 miles and a 4 every 4,000 miles. You can make changes to suit your own use. If you follow the recommendations of some filter makers you will get a higher wear rate so you need to be careful about recommendations. The better the filter and the smaller the filter the more often it must be changed.

 

[tjbeggs]

thank you handyman. that is a good reply. I don't know alot about filters and just found this site. but how do you know when a stand alone filter is in need of changing? is it just by looking at the oil? Soot build or by UOA?

I see you point about not knowing whether the filte ris clogged or not. About the only way to tell is by looking for soot in the oil. I have a question into Fleetguard about change intervals on a 14 quart system. so We'll see what they have to say.


Keep the thought coming! Ralph I am even interested to hear more from you if you have more to comment on if its somewhat objective.

 

[johnd]

The particular filter in question has a pretty big bypass element which might take a while to clog. Since the bypass is on the end of the filter, I'm betting that the temperature would drop as the filter clogged. You could monitor it say, after the drive home from work or some other consistent trip with a heat gun and develop a data which would allow you to determine how long it could be used. If it is really a good bypass filter, i'm thinking it would be a lot better than a straight full flow, even if it did clog fairly early.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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also ralph I just noticed your site sponsorship with motor guard. SO unless you have independant third party data to back up your claims they don't hold alot of weight in my book. Another bypass filter is competition to you so that means your bias.

But if you do have data to back up your claims I would love to see it. as well as anybody else who has any ideas.

---

I think I see what Ralph is trying to say here.

It's difficult to incorporate bypass and full flow filters into the same canister. You have to balance them to make the element service interval work. The full flow has to be used up around the same time the bypass part of it is. There has to be some biasing mechanism that manages to get the flows matched yet not prove problematic later on. Amsoil uses two separate elements with a sprung biasing valve in a dual setup.

The combo that goes on this filter head

gets its own bypass flow discharge.

The combo filters can go longer then a full flow ..but probably not as long as a stand alone bypass spin-on. The advantage is that you have one filter to change. Half as many part numbers to stock per vehicle.

It will never do as good as TP for filtration ..the consolation being that it won't have to be serviced as often.

I don't know if I said all that in a manner that was understandable.

I'm sure that they (the new Fleetguards) work as intended and will probably extend service intervals a decent amount.

 

[tjbeggs]

thanks gary that all make sense to me too. I did some reading about the filter today. part of what you are talking they addressed was balancing flow. some how with the venturi nozzle they designed it atually pulls more oil thru the bypass than would normally flow. From what i understand the pressure pushes the oil thru as well as the oil being pushed thru the full flow some how creates a vacum that pull s the oil thru the bypass section as well. I don't understand the full theory of the hydraulics involved.

thanks
Tim

 

[Tempest]

Quote:

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The better the filter ...the more often it must be changed.

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Is this necessarily true? GeorgeCLS has stated:

Quote:

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I have seen a 30 micron Beta 200 paper element need replacement at 30 days, yet its 6 micron beta 200 microglass element needing replaced at 120 days.

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Not trying to jack the thread, but I think this is relevant to the topic.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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thanks gary that all make sense to me too. I did some reading about the filter today. part of what you are talking they addressed was balancing flow. some how with the venturi nozzle they designed it atually pulls more oil thru the bypass than would normally flow. From what i understand the pressure pushes the oil thru as well as the oil being pushed thru the full flow some how creates a vacum that pull s the oil thru the bypass section as well. I don't understand the full theory of the hydraulics involved.

thanks
Tim

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I'll try and state this correctly. If you see the blue arrow ..it's coming from a large chamber and getting squished into that reverse funnel thing on the end of the cone and surrounds that center tube taht comes from the interior of the bypass area of the filter. As it enters that choke it will increase in velocity and you'll have a high velocity flow making it's own liquid "tube" around the outlet for the bypass filtered oil .this will create a vacuum ..just like the venturis on a carb ..a cock drain on a moving boat. The weed and feed stuff that you screw on to the garden hose when treating the lawn.

Here's an example of venturi flow ..although it's configured differently then it appears in the filter. The concept is the same. Just move the little tube (intersecting from above) into the high velocity stream from the end ...and have the main flow enter in from the sides (all sides).

some animation

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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Quote:

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The better the filter ...the more often it must be changed.

---

Is this necessarily true? GeorgeCLS has stated:

Quote:

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I have seen a 30 micron Beta 200 paper element need replacement at 30 days, yet its 6 micron beta 200 microglass element needing replaced at 120 days.

---

Not trying to jack the thread, but I think this is relevant to the topic.

---

George is, IIRC, remarking more about the more even distribution of pores in synthetic medias over that of paper. That is, you may have large holes and small holes in paper media ..and places with no holes

..and they may vary greatly. So when you see a given spec ..it's attained under a "more flawed" make up of media. The synthetic media will have more even distribution of pore size and more pores per square inch. This may be where he's coming from and why he got his results.

 

[tjbeggs]

So does anybody know what type of media the synthetic stratapore media is? I am quite sure its not chopped new paper as my friend ralph said it is. but would it fall into the category you guys are talking about above?

and yes gary thats helps me see the hydraulics involved in the venturi. Still waiting on specs from fleetguard so we'll see. I am waiting to rack up the mile on my truck so I can hack that filter apart and so I can pull my first oil sample for anylasis.

 

[tjbeggs]

oops I misquoted Ralph he was talking about the bypass filter media being chopped newpaper. sorry ralph. I am not joking either. I am not picking a fight with ralph if he is still checking this thread.

 

[RalphPWood]

Fleetguard uses chopped newspapers in their best filter, the LF-750. Wix, Lubrafiner and probably others also use chopped newspapers in their 750 elements. Using a full flow filter with a tiny bypass element in it is similar to using a single TP filter on a 750 HP Cat engine. It will clog in an hr or so and your bypass and full flow filter will suddenly be a straight full flow filter.
I take the Fleetguard LF-750's and convert them to take Scott Center pull paper towels because I am a TP guy and the Scott Center pull paper towels are very similar to TP. You can probably buy the stock newspaper elements down at O'Reilly's cheaper than I can get two rolls of the Scott Center pull paper towels. Like the Scott TP the Center pull paper towels are submicronic.

 

[Tempest]

Thanks for the explanation Gary.