It’s unfortunate you didn’t get that ruling in writing.Well, out of the horses mouth is disputed by the armchair lawyers again.
So American Honda Motor Company is wrong and some eggspurt on the 'net is going to go to court as my witness and beat them.
This is so ridiculous.
Amsoil SS 0W-20 vs Schaeffer’s 0W-20 & filter in Honda 2.0L
- Thread starter FranklinFox
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RECOMMENDED
Where does it say required?
They RECOMMEND 0w20 for CAFE reasons. Check an owners manual from outside of the USA. You'll be surprised what grades they RECOMMEND.
Yes you will see in my post they RECOMMEND 0w20 and they RECOMMEND API SN.
There is absolutely no distinction made between their viscosity recommendation and the oil certification recommendation.
Failure to follow vehicle servicing recommendations can lead to warranty claims denials
If anyone here has it in writing from any manufacturer that you can deviate from these recommendations and be assured coverage please do post it up because it would be the first time I've ever seen it and I have seen plenty and plenty of claim denials.
Definitely do not rely on EU or other service manuals to inform how you should service NA vehicles. These are NOT interchangeable recommendations.
Amsoil's boutique market share must be dwindling.
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Ya, you already explained it in #28 so why again? In fact I gave you a Like in said post...
I’ve heard….
I just wanted to see if anyone was already rolling their eyes.
To @FranklinFox, OK, one question is: is this an engine prone to fuel dilution? I would get a UOA by the 2nd or 3rd oil change to get a baseline. So that would be around 15k miles. much sooner than that, and you’ll get a lot of “noise” on the report from the engine just getting broken in. Use a lab that actually tests for fuel dilution….WHICH IS NOT BLACKSTONE, even though they have an entry on their report for fuel dilution. So that means use Oil Analysers (available through Amsoil), or TestOil. There may be others. Maybe go out of your way to “require” them to do a gas chromatography test for dilution. Today, it’s part of the normal test, no extra charge, but they might try to wiggle out of it if other parameters are up to snuff (for instance, someone claimed OA did not do the GC test if viscosity were less than x% lower than virgin oil … if they even have the virgin reading in their database), and who know what they will be doing by the time you reach 15k. If the lab notes fuel, then start worrying about it. Well, worrying does no good, but you could at that point use a true cleaning oil like the HPL, at least once or twice, and maybe look for a “thicker“ 0w-20 to settle in with. Or maybe there is a thin 0w-30 you could “sneak in,” that would end up testing like a 0w-20 with a little fuel mixed in.
I know nothing about Schaefer’s, and really not much about Amsoil, though I am about to try SS in my next EcoBoost fill. It was recommended to me by someone pretty steeped in the whole fuel dilution topic, whose name was revered at one time, but later banned or shunned or something bad. I also spoke with HPL’s lead guy (David), and like what he said to me about his products, was impressed that he was even willing to talk with little ole me, and think you could do much worse than use their oil. Back to Amsoil, I’m sure the SS is better than the XL, but XL ought to be good enough for 5k-7.5k. But then, many of the “premium” products from Mobil or Castrol or ‘cough’ even Shell would also be good enough. For that matter, the 20k Supertech is probably good enough if no severe service for 5-7.5k. And you asked about Idemitsu, well “I’ve heard” they are fairly well regarded among Subaru, Mazda, and Honda, etc, probably a step above run of the mill American synthetics, but not unicorn fairy dust stuff…but as you noted, they should be pretty tapped in with Japanese motors. Go to the Oil Analysis section of the forums, and search on Idemitsu, and you‘ll get some idea how users like it with real life UOA results, no doubt in Japanese engines. I checked only a couple before writing this and those two users were getting low wear metals (single digit Fe and Cu) which sounds good to me.
I just wanted to see if anyone was already rolling their eyes.
To @FranklinFox, OK, one question is: is this an engine prone to fuel dilution? I would get a UOA by the 2nd or 3rd oil change to get a baseline. So that would be around 15k miles. much sooner than that, and you’ll get a lot of “noise” on the report from the engine just getting broken in. Use a lab that actually tests for fuel dilution….WHICH IS NOT BLACKSTONE, even though they have an entry on their report for fuel dilution. So that means use Oil Analysers (available through Amsoil), or TestOil. There may be others. Maybe go out of your way to “require” them to do a gas chromatography test for dilution. Today, it’s part of the normal test, no extra charge, but they might try to wiggle out of it if other parameters are up to snuff (for instance, someone claimed OA did not do the GC test if viscosity were less than x% lower than virgin oil … if they even have the virgin reading in their database), and who know what they will be doing by the time you reach 15k. If the lab notes fuel, then start worrying about it. Well, worrying does no good, but you could at that point use a true cleaning oil like the HPL, at least once or twice, and maybe look for a “thicker“ 0w-20 to settle in with. Or maybe there is a thin 0w-30 you could “sneak in,” that would end up testing like a 0w-20 with a little fuel mixed in.
I know nothing about Schaefer’s, and really not much about Amsoil, though I am about to try SS in my next EcoBoost fill. It was recommended to me by someone pretty steeped in the whole fuel dilution topic, whose name was revered at one time, but later banned or shunned or something bad. I also spoke with HPL’s lead guy (David), and like what he said to me about his products, was impressed that he was even willing to talk with little ole me, and think you could do much worse than use their oil. Back to Amsoil, I’m sure the SS is better than the XL, but XL ought to be good enough for 5k-7.5k. But then, many of the “premium” products from Mobil or Castrol or ‘cough’ even Shell would also be good enough. For that matter, the 20k Supertech is probably good enough if no severe service for 5-7.5k. And you asked about Idemitsu, well “I’ve heard” they are fairly well regarded among Subaru, Mazda, and Honda, etc, probably a step above run of the mill American synthetics, but not unicorn fairy dust stuff…but as you noted, they should be pretty tapped in with Japanese motors. Go to the Oil Analysis section of the forums, and search on Idemitsu, and you‘ll get some idea how users like it with real life UOA results, no doubt in Japanese engines. I checked only a couple before writing this and those two users were getting low wear metals (single digit Fe and Cu) which sounds good to me.
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No I did not. I think you're confusing me with another poster.
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Getting too old, confused, sorry.
We're all headed that direction (getting old) & no worries.
Just like towing a small boat with my Hyundai Kona AWD, North America Hyundai says “ Not Recommended“. 98% of the people think that means it void’s warranty. The dealers will say so too. In Europe and Australia and other countries my car is rated to tow 2,800 lbs. As a world car there is no difference will my car vs a car in Germany structurally. Yet legally, not recommend has nothing to do with warranty. When Hyundai uses verbiage to void warranty it directly says “ voids warranty“ in black and white. As per ECU tunes, blow off valves, Or any alteration that increases boost of the turbo.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Useless.........
Yes ME, Hyundai "Recommends" their oil filter and the service writer even lied saying he thinks they won't cover my motor because I had a "non recommend oil filter" A Fram Ultra. I said I have every legal right to run any oil filter I want, as long it is name brand, it is the filter # for the car with the bad motor. He said I will have to call Hyundai on that. Not another single word was said about a warranty infraction and I received a new long block.
As I posted before, a car manufacture will not use wish washy or dubious words when it comes to warranty. They just don't. They would lose in court, because of a dubious badly descriptive word. When Hyundai wants to get the point across about an item they will void a warranty on, if you don't follow what they write/preach, (and they do ) they use words like "This Voids Your Warranty" "This Will Void Your Warranty" or "Voids Warranty". You have to take "what their minions SAY" with a grain of salt, as they are highly misinformed. Unlike say a VW/Audi dealership. "Recommends" means they would like you to do it, but we can not force you to comply.
Too many "by the manual" people fear their own shadow on this. They think they are the "know it all lawyer" when clearly exacting words tell the legal story. Dubious descriptive words lose court cases, and Hyundai knows they have to post/write/say "This Voids Your Warranty" "This Will Void Your Warranty" or "Voids Warranty" to tell you, the car owner it voids your warranty.
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Playing the devil's advocate here, I searched the German web page for the HR-V being sold there. Here is what is quoted for a different country/continent with regard to the 2.0 liter HR-V:
Honda empfiehlt die Verwendung von Castrol EDGE Professional H in der Spezifikation 0W20 bzw. 5W30 für Benzin und C2 0W30 für die Diesel Motoren.
Bitte lesen Sie hierzu auch die Angaben, die in Ihrem Fahrerhandbuch zu den zu verwendenden Schmierstoffen für Ihr Fahrzeug aufgeführt sind oder fragen Sie direkt bei Ihrem Honda Vertragspartner nach.
Translated, this says that:
Honda recommends the use of Castrol EDGE Professional H in specification 0W20 or 5W30 for petrol and C2 0W30 for diesel engines.
Please also read the information given in your driver's manual about the lubricants to be used for your vehicle or ask your Honda dealer directly.
As for a recommendation of the two oils suggested... buy the least expensive and use an OEM filter at specified drain intervals. Keep it simple.
Honda empfiehlt die Verwendung von Castrol EDGE Professional H in der Spezifikation 0W20 bzw. 5W30 für Benzin und C2 0W30 für die Diesel Motoren.
Bitte lesen Sie hierzu auch die Angaben, die in Ihrem Fahrerhandbuch zu den zu verwendenden Schmierstoffen für Ihr Fahrzeug aufgeführt sind oder fragen Sie direkt bei Ihrem Honda Vertragspartner nach.
Translated, this says that:
Honda recommends the use of Castrol EDGE Professional H in specification 0W20 or 5W30 for petrol and C2 0W30 for diesel engines.
Please also read the information given in your driver's manual about the lubricants to be used for your vehicle or ask your Honda dealer directly.
As for a recommendation of the two oils suggested... buy the least expensive and use an OEM filter at specified drain intervals. Keep it simple.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
The OP don't be in Germany and German consumer laws don't apply. Doesn't matter in the US what is stated in Germany or Lithuania or Bolivia, for that matter.
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Thank you for acknowledging the fact that oil recommendations in the USA aren't driven by technical requirements but rather by governmental mandates. What's best for the consumer is overridden by what the bureaucracy deems more appropriate.
Nor is there any "consumer law" involved.
Again, completely different fuel chemistry in Germany. Fuel chemistry is extremely important in oil selection and recommendation as well. There are also different emissions systems and calibrations on the vehicles often as well (particularly emissions calibrations in the ECU but often hardware changes as well).
Absolutely do not look at a foreign countries manual and assume it applies to your car in the United States.
The only thing smart to do here would be to reach out to the manufacturer and ask them if it is okay to use a different oil than that which is specified in the United States manual for a United States vehicle.
You've got to be kidding.
Please explain how German fuel chemistry is "completely different" and how it would invalidate the use of a 30-grade here in the US.
That's an odd way to start off with a sincere question but if your question is sincere I'm happy to let you know how fuel chemistries in Germany differ from those in the United States.
In fact lspi related issues are much more prevalent in the United States than they are in any other countries.
If you look at any literature on lspi you will see that lspi occurs as an interaction between oil droplets and Fuel and since we cannot change fuel chemistry very easily in the United States instead we have oils that are changed in formulation to decrease lspi.
Nevertheless fuel chemistry plays a huge role in what oils get recommended for vehicles.
And fuel chemistry in the United States is not the same as that in other countries.
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