Let me look. But here's a Civic with 8% fuel dilution:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4678675/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4678675/1
Finding fuel to oil leak?
- Thread starter North to Alaska
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I hate to say this but I think you are chasing something that is quiet possibly normal. I may be wrong but I see some older cars with side feed injectors actually start pushing the oil higher on the dipstick in winter.
You fuel trims are a good indicator, if you had high minus numbers you are on to something but if the pump isn't leaking fuel into the oil and the level isn't moving there is nothing to work about IMO.
Check for fuel dilution in the summer when the cold start enrichment time is much shorter and leaner. I would almost bet the dilution is less. This seems to be very common with DI.
You fuel trims are a good indicator, if you had high minus numbers you are on to something but if the pump isn't leaking fuel into the oil and the level isn't moving there is nothing to work about IMO.
Check for fuel dilution in the summer when the cold start enrichment time is much shorter and leaner. I would almost bet the dilution is less. This seems to be very common with DI.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I hate to say this but I think you are chasing something that is quiet possibly normal. I may be wrong but I see some older cars with side feed injectors actually start pushing the oil higher on the dipstick in winter.
You fuel trims are a good indicator, if you had high minus numbers you are on to something but if the pump isn't leaking fuel into the oil and the level isn't moving there is nothing to work about IMO.
Check for fuel dilution in the summer when the cold start enrichment time is much shorter and leaner. I would almost bet the dilution is less. This seems to be very common with DI.
You may be correct.
I'm probably so shell shocked from all the things that have gone wrong with this thing that I am looking for problems now.
Plus one big thing that I forgot to mention, I put through 2 bottles of gum out one-n-done through it. Worked, I think, since all the carbon (caked on) disappeared off the top of the pistons.
I hate to say this but I think you are chasing something that is quiet possibly normal. I may be wrong but I see some older cars with side feed injectors actually start pushing the oil higher on the dipstick in winter.
You fuel trims are a good indicator, if you had high minus numbers you are on to something but if the pump isn't leaking fuel into the oil and the level isn't moving there is nothing to work about IMO.
Check for fuel dilution in the summer when the cold start enrichment time is much shorter and leaner. I would almost bet the dilution is less. This seems to be very common with DI.
You may be correct.
I'm probably so shell shocked from all the things that have gone wrong with this thing that I am looking for problems now.
Plus one big thing that I forgot to mention, I put through 2 bottles of gum out one-n-done through it. Worked, I think, since all the carbon (caked on) disappeared off the top of the pistons.
This is one of those things I would just monitor and try and get some idea what conditions may effect the dilution like seasonal changes or anything different during a given OCI.
You probably have 4oz or less of fuel in the oil, nothing to loose sleep over IMO.
You probably have 4oz or less of fuel in the oil, nothing to loose sleep over IMO.
Originally Posted By: Iowegian
Talked with the rep. Mechanic found nothing wrong. no access oil and no fuel smell...
Told him to look at the mileage on the car. 1,000 miles since oil change. Probably won't smell anything.
Did he take the fuel pump off to check the seals. Rep was quiet and then "yes he did" but he didn't sound too confident about it.
We did get some service dates straightened out. He thought the fuel pump was changed out via the recall last December. I said no, that was the condenser that was changed. Fuel pump was changed Nov, 2016 per recall. July of 2017, his service department did the engine overhaul which requires the removal of the high pressure fuel pump and replacing the O ring.
He was going to have the shop foreman take a look at it and call me back. That may not happen till tomorrow morning....
Will keep you posted...
If the high pressure pump was leaking fuel into the crankcase....Your fuel dilution would be a lot worse than it is. The O-ring they changed was the mounting seal (oil leak point). Your pump is no longer under warranty (12 month/12,000 miles) unless it has some special/extended coverage?
Talked with the rep. Mechanic found nothing wrong. no access oil and no fuel smell...
Told him to look at the mileage on the car. 1,000 miles since oil change. Probably won't smell anything.
Did he take the fuel pump off to check the seals. Rep was quiet and then "yes he did" but he didn't sound too confident about it.
We did get some service dates straightened out. He thought the fuel pump was changed out via the recall last December. I said no, that was the condenser that was changed. Fuel pump was changed Nov, 2016 per recall. July of 2017, his service department did the engine overhaul which requires the removal of the high pressure fuel pump and replacing the O ring.
He was going to have the shop foreman take a look at it and call me back. That may not happen till tomorrow morning....
Will keep you posted...
If the high pressure pump was leaking fuel into the crankcase....Your fuel dilution would be a lot worse than it is. The O-ring they changed was the mounting seal (oil leak point). Your pump is no longer under warranty (12 month/12,000 miles) unless it has some special/extended coverage?
Originally Posted By: Iowegian
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Olas
Pull yr injectors to check for leaks, then suspect rings.
No need for that just look at the fuel trims.
Fuel tim looks really good...after I replaced the MAF sensor a month or so ago.
Was the UOA done on the oil run with the old MAF sensor? You may have fixed your problem.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Olas
Pull yr injectors to check for leaks, then suspect rings.
No need for that just look at the fuel trims.
Fuel tim looks really good...after I replaced the MAF sensor a month or so ago.
Was the UOA done on the oil run with the old MAF sensor? You may have fixed your problem.
Originally Posted By: AVB
Originally Posted By: Iowegian
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Olas
Pull yr injectors to check for leaks, then suspect rings.
No need for that just look at the fuel trims.
Fuel tim looks really good...after I replaced the MAF sensor a month or so ago.
Was the UOA done on the oil run with the old MAF sensor? You may have fixed your problem.
Yes it was. Fuel trim was running at about 6% to 9%. Now it hovers around 0.
But I don't think that caused the problem. Higher fuel trim doesn't mean "more" fuel. If the o2 sensor is accurate (replaced that a few months ago) then there is no access fuel in the chamber. There is however, a lean mixture occurring at acceleration at first before the o2 sensor detects the lean mixture and for the ecu to compensate by increasing the fuel trim.
Maybe I am missing something.
Originally Posted By: Iowegian
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Olas
Pull yr injectors to check for leaks, then suspect rings.
No need for that just look at the fuel trims.
Fuel tim looks really good...after I replaced the MAF sensor a month or so ago.
Was the UOA done on the oil run with the old MAF sensor? You may have fixed your problem.
Yes it was. Fuel trim was running at about 6% to 9%. Now it hovers around 0.
But I don't think that caused the problem. Higher fuel trim doesn't mean "more" fuel. If the o2 sensor is accurate (replaced that a few months ago) then there is no access fuel in the chamber. There is however, a lean mixture occurring at acceleration at first before the o2 sensor detects the lean mixture and for the ecu to compensate by increasing the fuel trim.
Maybe I am missing something.
There are situations where a false lean reading will increase fuel when its not necessary eg any exhaust leak even a very small one before the front O2/AFM or a leaking injector O ring or other sources of of unmetered air effects a limited number of cylinders.
The cylinder with the leaking ring will go lean but only having one O2/AFM per bank the ECM will add fuel to all cylinders on that bank.
During normal closed loop adding or minus fuel to a small degree is normal operation. IMO your problem is more than likely occurring in open loop where the values are running at preset parameters.
The cylinder with the leaking ring will go lean but only having one O2/AFM per bank the ECM will add fuel to all cylinders on that bank.
During normal closed loop adding or minus fuel to a small degree is normal operation. IMO your problem is more than likely occurring in open loop where the values are running at preset parameters.
Thank you Trav for your suggestions.
I will keep an eye on it and I may send in another analysis next oil change.
Although, my ultimate goal is to trade it off in a couple of years, right before the extended warranty is done.
I will keep an eye on it and I may send in another analysis next oil change.
Although, my ultimate goal is to trade it off in a couple of years, right before the extended warranty is done.
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