Filter efficiency

[dnewton3]

Wix publicaly posts their normal filter data for the 6.7L PSD.
2/20/75 = 3/12/17
For anyone who knows filters, this a darn good performance from a cellulose based, glass enhanced filter! Does one "need" a FU or Boss with full syn media, when they can get this filter? I'd like to see the data from Fram that's this detailed and this impressive. Why even buy the XP from Wix when this awesome filter is available? The answer the OP got from Wix is evidence that the person whom gave the answer is just programmed to puke out garbage to the masses. Sure, it filters at "5um", as do all filters. The question is what efficiency at 5um? Well, Wix does not state that, but they do show the 57151 filter being 50% at 3um, and 95% at 12um.

They don't list any beta data for the XP version of the filter, so the "proprietary" comment is valid. They used to put out limited data on it, but now they won't state anything. As most of us suspect, it's far less efficient than is the "normal" filter. I'd never use a Wix XP. Too much money for too little performance.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Sayjac
…..However as noted my previous post here, OP asked about a filter Wix makes for another company, Napa. That is analogous to emailing Champ Labs and asking about M1 oil filter efficiency......
Actually if you email Mobil 1 and ask them about the oil filter efficiency, the email response that you get will come from Champ Labs, as Mobil 1 will simply forward that email along for Champ to answer (at least that has happened to me in the past). So by simply emailing Champ Labs directly and asking them about any filter they produce will usually give you the answer you are looking for. So considering the fact that Wix makes the Platinum lineup, and they know it's identical to their XP, I'm surprised they wouldn't just give out this info the same way they give out their info for XP.
I'm more surprised that M1 in this case would forward the email to Champ Labs. M1 efficiency is proprietary to Mobil not Champ Labs. I wonder if ACDelco would do the same. I'd be surprised again, if they did that. That said, for M1 at least they've been pretty good about listing/publishing an efficiency rating, making such a query unnecessary.

And while you and I may know the XP and Platinum the same what Wix may choose to release about a 'made for' Napa filter is another matter. And really, I have no idea what the folks who work the Wix CS response desk know or don't know. Using past board posted reply information as basis, it ain't much. As noted, your reply one of the better ones, and had the OP done the same, likely would have gotten similar. The appropriate reply here imo would have been for Wix to say to contact Napa.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Wix publicaly posts their normal filter data for the 6.7L PSD.
2/20/75 = 3/12/17
For anyone who knows filters, this a darn good performance from a cellulose based, glass enhanced filter! Does one "need" a FU or Boss with full syn media, when they can get this filter? I'd like to see the data from Fram that's this detailed and this impressive.


That WIX is pretty efficient. The yellow PureOne was also very efficient, and were cellulose or a cellulose blend. There was an old thread where data from Purolator was posted showing efficiencies down to 5 μ.

Motorking has posted a couple times the Ultra is 80% @ 5μ. If that's the case then it would probably be about 50% @ 3μ like the WIX above.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by dnewton3


They don't list any beta data for the XP version of the filter, so the "proprietary" comment is valid. They used to put out limited data on it, but now they won't state anything. As most of us suspect, it's far less efficient than is the "normal" filter. I'd never use a Wix XP. Too much money for too little performance.


I would normally agree with you but I'm about to buy a couple of NAPA Platinums for my wife's car this weekend, that $4.99 price tag is too good to pass up when the NAPA Gold filter for her BMW is $16.99 and the Platinum is usually $18.99.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of people going for the NAPA Platinum deal this month because of that $4.99 sale. It's still a bummer that it doesn't filter as well as the Gold though....

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Sayjac

I'm more surprised that M1 in this case would forward the email to Champ Labs. M1 efficiency is proprietary to Mobil not Champ Labs. I wonder if ACDelco would do the same. I'd be surprised again, if they did that. That said, for M1 at least they've been pretty good about listing/publishing an efficiency rating, making such a query unnecessary.


They might not do it anymore, but when I sent Mobil an email back in March 2018 they did, as you can see below if you follow the chain:

Quote


Patrick

The M1-113A has a by-pass valve set at 12-18 psid at 1/10 gallon flow. Champion Laboratories makes the AC Delco PF64 oil filter and the Mobil 1 M1-113/M1-113A filters and we stand behind any of these three listed filters when used on the 2018 Chevrolet Corvette.



Tech Hotline

Phone: 800-882-0890 2

From: Pernia, Pedro On Behalf Of TSC Americas /SM
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 8:53 AM
To: Tech Hotline
Subject: FW: Lubricants: Technical Question (PP)



Hello Champ Labs Team,



Could you support the customer below? Thanks.





Regards,



Pedro PernÃa, B. Eng.

Americas Technical Help Desk Engineer

ExxonMobil Lubricants Technology



ExxonMobil Business Support Centre Canada ULC

Email: [email protected]

US: 1.800.662.4525 (Fax: 1.262.313.2316)

Canada: 1.800.268.3183 (Français aussi)

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Wix publicaly posts their normal filter data for the 6.7L PSD.
2/20/75 = 3/12/17
For anyone who knows filters, this a darn good performance from a cellulose based, glass enhanced filter! Does one "need" a FU or Boss with full syn media, when they can get this filter? I'd like to see the data from Fram that's this detailed and this impressive.


That WIX is pretty efficient. The yellow PureOne was also very efficient, and were cellulose or a cellulose blend. There was an old thread where data from Purolator was posted showing efficiencies down to 5 μ.

Motorking has posted a couple times the Ultra is 80% @ 5μ. If that's the case then it would probably be about 50% @ 3μ like the WIX above.


It's all just talk until they list the micron/beta ratios for all to see.
Thumbs up to wix on the wix/N gold's because they make it available for most of those.
As far as Im concerned the ultra is nothing special for filtering below 20 microns otherwise they would make that information available.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Pinoak
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Wix publicaly posts their normal filter data for the 6.7L PSD.
2/20/75 = 3/12/17
For anyone who knows filters, this a darn good performance from a cellulose based, glass enhanced filter! Does one "need" a FU or Boss with full syn media, when they can get this filter? I'd like to see the data from Fram that's this detailed and this impressive.

That WIX is pretty efficient. The yellow PureOne was also very efficient, and were cellulose or a cellulose blend. There was an old thread where data from Purolator was posted showing efficiencies down to 5 μ.

Motorking has posted a couple times the Ultra is 80% @ 5μ. If that's the case then it would probably be about 50% @ 3μ like the WIX above.

It's all just talk until they list the micron/beta ratios for all to see.
Thumbs up to wix on the wix/N gold's because they make it available for most of those.
As far as Im concerned the ultra is nothing special for filtering below 20 microns otherwise they would make that information available.


I agree it's not published info, so of course most people are going to assume it's fake info. Even if information is published there are still people who claim it's all made up. This has been talked about before on why Motorking would be unwise to pass on incorrect information as an employee of a company he represented (ie, laws against it). Maybe I'll try to contact Fram and see if their Tech Line guy will give out any info.

As far as your last comment, you obviously have no insight to how an efficiency curve vs particle size curve would typically look for a high efficiency oil filter. Any filter that is 99+% @ 20 microns is going to still be pretty efficient below 20 microns. The curve just doesn't fall off the cliff at 20 microns. Purolator many years ago gave out efficiency vs particle size data down to 5 microns. The PureOne wasn't even full synthetic media.

In summary, Purolator Engineers said their PureOne efficiency vs particle size broke down as follows:

50% = B2 = below 5u
90% = B10 = 6.69u
95% = B20 = >8u
98.7% = B75 = >11u
99% = B100 = 11.42u
99.5% = B200 = >13u
99.9% = B1000 = >15u

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Patman
They might not do it anymore, but when I sent Mobil an email back in March 2018 they did, as you can see below if you follow the chain:
Quote


Patrick

The M1-113A has a by-pass valve set at 12-18 psid at 1/10 gallon flow. Champion Laboratories makes the AC Delco PF64 oil filter and the Mobil 1 M1-113/M1-113A filters and we stand behind any of these three listed filters when used on the 2018 Chevrolet Corvette.


Interesting data on the bypass valve. I think it's the first time I've ever seen any company give flow details like that - ie, "flow vs delta-p" of the bypass valve itself.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Sayjac
…...I'm more surprised that M1 in this case would forward the email to Champ Labs. M1 efficiency is proprietary to Mobil not Champ Labs. I wonder if ACDelco would do the same. I'd be surprised again, if they did that. That said, for M1 at least they've been pretty good about listing/publishing an efficiency rating, making such a query unnecessary...
They might not do it anymore, but when I sent Mobil an email back in March 2018 they did, as you can see below if you follow the chain.....
In that case obviously with the permission of M1, Champ Labs released the info. Good for them they have/had such an agreement. In my observation, such an agreement to release proprietary information would have to be with prior approval. Perhaps, Wix and Napa have no such agreement. In any case it's clear that unlike the NG/Plat query, Wix had no issue releasing efficiency information about thier Wix XP filter.

So seems M1 uses or used Champ Labs as follow up for more detailed information. As seen though, 'it appears' the entire exchange started with Mobil then referred to Champ Labs for follow up with, "could you support". Perhaps if the OP started with the query about Napa filters with Napa, a similar to Mobil result may have occurred. Or, perhaps not.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

In summary, Purolator Engineers said their PureOne efficiency vs particle size broke down as follows:

50% = B2 = below 5u
90% = B10 = 6.69u
95% = B20 = >8u
98.7% = B75 = >11u
99% = B100 = 11.42u
99.5% = B200 = >13u
99.9% = B1000 = >15u

I thought that PureOne's efficiency was much lower than Fram Ultra so you are saying Pure one is 99% efficient at 11+ microns and Ultra is 99% efficient at 20 microns?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Al
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

In summary, Purolator Engineers said their PureOne efficiency vs particle size broke down as follows:

50% = B2 = below 5u
90% = B10 = 6.69u
95% = B20 = >8u
98.7% = B75 = >11u
99% = B100 = 11.42u
99.5% = B200 = >13u
99.9% = B1000 = >15u

I thought that PureOne's efficiency was much lower than Fram Ultra so you are saying Pure one is 99% efficient at 11+ microns and Ultra is 99% efficient at 20 microns?

I just posted the efficiency info that Purolator sent someone that asked for the data - back when some engineers from Purolator would actually answer emails with questions. There have been a couple of long threads all about it, and that's where that data came from. You've been here since 2002, so probably have read those threads yourself.

The Purolator BOSS is much lower efficiency (99% @ 40u) than the Ultra. But the Purolator ONE is what replaced the PureOne, which Purolator still rates at 99% @ 20u. A lot of PureOne users jump to the Ultra when the media tearing started going wild. Guys who still wanted to use a high efficiency oil filter that didn't tear.

 

[Al]

Thanks for the reply. I really haven followed the oil filter, util the past 3 months. Whenever you say something, I take serious stock in it. Thanks for all the good info.

I thought a few months back that Mobil1 was the way to go when I got the Ultra Info information, the next day I pulled it off and installed the ultra. So looks like for not its the safe way of going.

 

[Pinoak]

X

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by Donald
So I emailed WIX and asked about the filter efficiency for a NAPA Gold and Platnium filter for my PSD.

Their reply was 5 micron for the Gold and the specs for the Platnium are proprietary.

Wix has the beta ratios and micron rating on there website for wix/Napa gold. No need to call about those

 

[dnewton3]

Hey Zee -
You've mentioned a few times that the Puro Boss isn't a high eff filter. I'm not at all saying you're wrong, but were you able to find/relate any proof of that? I cannot find any claims on their site for that filter line. I thought I had once read it was a high eff filter, but you're stating otherwise. Just wondered if you had a link or email of something?

Presuming you're correct (and I'm not saying your're not), then I'd liken the Boss to the XP; fair to conclude it's made for the long haul at the expense of efficiency?

 

[dnewton3]

My most recent frustration has come at the hands of Fram ... Not at all dissatisfied with their products, but their pricing.
I was buying the TG2 at $6 from WM; great filter for the money. But now I've got two new Taurus's and hence a need for the FL500S version; the TG10575, but it's $9 for the TG. Most all other TGs at WM are $6, but for some reason this particular TG is 50% more cost. Hmmmmmm .... not a fan of paying that much for a filter.
I might have to go back to Wix, ordered via fleetfilter.com ....

 

[4WD]

Blended fiber long run for $7

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-4-USA-Champ-Synthetic-PH500XL-Oil-Filter-LOT-fits-M1-212A-XG10575-20-500/173607943999?epid=81037542&hash=item286bd6ff3f:g:Z68AAOSwlwRakxgg

 

[Shellguy]

Has anyone here ever used those champion blended filters?

 

[Shellguy]

Also I know the wix xp and napa platinums get a bad rap as far as efficiency goes....but I dont think they are a bad filter. Seems perfect for someone who changes the filter ever other change (5-6000 miles,oci's) imo.

 

[Uphill_Both_Ways]

Originally Posted by Patman
That's weird that they wouldn't give you the specs on the XP, I emailed them just a week ago and within 20 minutes they emailed back with this response:

Quote
WIX XP Oil Filters provide robust engine protection when using synthetic motor oil for harsh driving conditions such as towing, extreme idle time, lower gear mountainous climbs, long periods at highway speeds.
Harsh conditions include long periods at highway speeds.

Thanks, Mann & Hummel. Now on long drives I'll shut down every 30 minutes to allow the oil to rest.