Everything is made in China

[buster]

http://pragcap.com/greenspan-critics-proves-he-doesnt-understand-u-s-monetary-system

"Dr. Greenspan says his legacy should not be viewed negatively and that his critics have not proven him wrong. No sir Dr. Greenspan. No one has to prove you wrong. Your legacies of deregulation, a financialized US economy and the Greenspan put have spoken for themselves by helping to cause the world’s largest and most productive economy to suffer more than a decade of malaise, 10′s of millions unemployed and a near collapse of the entire system."

 

[casperfun]

Originally Posted By: buster
Regulation is a broad topic. You can't just assume it's always best to let the market be the sole regulator, just as you can't assume the gov. should be. Works both ways.



William K. Black: The Anti-Regulators Are the "Job Killers"

The new mantra of the Republican Party is the old mantra -- regulation is a "job killer." It is certainly possible to have regulations kill jobs, and when I was a financial regulator I was a leader in cutting away many dumb requirements. But we have just experienced the epic ability of the anti-regulators to kill well over ten million jobs. The anti-regulators subverted the rule of law and allowed elite frauds to loot with impunity.

 

[buster]

Casper well said. I could not agree more. Dr. Black has put out a lot of good work on this topic.

 

[HTSS_TR]

The Bendix CT-3 front and rear ceramic brake pads for my S2000 are made in the good old USA, so is the Bosch Premium oil filters for my LS400 and E430, Mann air filter for my E430. There are some auto parts made in the good old USA if you look hard for it.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

and how would an unregulated industry have addressed it ?

As per your previous statements, they would have waited for the court cases...oft from dead people.

It was a STATE OWNED corporation that was lacing the milk, causing the problem. You can't anymore regulated than that.

Do the people have any real redress from this state owned company that wronged them? NO.

And, it happens HERE, in the US as well. Children are INTENTIONALLY being feed substandard meat via lunch programs:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2009-12-08-school-lunch-standards_N.htm

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: casperfun
Originally Posted By: buster
Regulation is a broad topic. You can't just assume it's always best to let the market be the sole regulator, just as you can't assume the gov. should be. Works both ways.



William K. Black: The Anti-Regulators Are the "Job Killers"

The new mantra of the Republican Party is the old mantra -- regulation is a "job killer." It is certainly possible to have regulations kill jobs, and when I was a financial regulator I was a leader in cutting away many dumb requirements. But we have just experienced the epic ability of the anti-regulators to kill well over ten million jobs. The anti-regulators subverted the rule of law and allowed elite frauds to loot with impunity.

And not a single word about the FTC or Justice Department going after people for breaking any laws on "predatory lending" and whatever else. Why would that be?

Also, not a word about the FED, THE regulatory body for money supply, making easy monetary policies in order to BE ABLE to inflate the bubble that Mr. Black decries so much.
Why?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: buster
http://pragcap.com/greenspan-critics-proves-he-doesnt-understand-u-s-monetary-system

"Dr. Greenspan says his legacy should not be viewed negatively and that his critics have not proven him wrong. No sir Dr. Greenspan. No one has to prove you wrong. Your legacies of deregulation, a financialized US economy and the Greenspan put have spoken for themselves by helping to cause the world’s largest and most productive economy to suffer more than a decade of malaise, 10′s of millions unemployed and a near collapse of the entire system."

But I thought you wanted "experts" making decisions on the money supply via government spending???

That article shows the folly of your original premise!

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
It was a STATE OWNED corporation that was lacing the milk, causing the problem. You can't anymore regulated than that.


State owned, and 43% New Zealand's Fonterra owned. Nestle is not state owned but their milk product also got contaminated. So I guess you can blame Swiss and New Zealand for sabotage as well, no?

2008 Chinese milk scandl

It is not the regulator that tainted the milk, it is the central government that try to lock down information, as well as corrupted local government trying to shift blame, to prevent massive scarce. The one who tainted the milk were the dairy farmers and the milk buyers / distributors.

And who were there finding the problem and issuing safety recall? The inspectors in the private sectors and.... government regulators.

Quote:
And, it happens HERE, in the US as well. Children are INTENTIONALLY being feed substandard meat via lunch programs:


But those government rules have fallen behind the increasingly tough standards that have evolved among fast-food chains and more selective retailers.

Morris, who used to run the USDA office that investigates food-borne illnesses, says the department's purchases of meat that doesn't satisfy higher-end commercial standards are especially worrisome because the meat goes to schools.

Looks like Tempest mis-interpret the article he linked. The article said the USDA REGULATION isn't tough enough, when he said regulation cost money and is bad for the industry. It is actually the lower standard of regulation that's saving money here, no? And by the way, since when does "not meeting higher end standard" being bad? I though you want less regulation and let the market takes care of regulation.

 

[buster]

Tempest, there are no good examples of Libertarian/Anarcho-Capitalist societies. ALL of the most successful economies in the world are "mixed". You seem to have this fantasy that a free market exists. We all know the gov. creates problems, but it's also part of the market system.

Quote:
Singapore has a highly developed state capitalist mixed economy; the state controls and owns firms that comprise at least 60% of the GDP through government entities such as the sovereign wealth fund Temasek.[3] It has an open business environment, relatively corruption-free and transparent, stable prices, and one of the highest per capita gross domestic products (GDP) in the world. Its innovative yet steadfast form of economics that combines economic planning with free-market[4] has given it the nickname the Singapore Model.

On 14 February 2007, the Singapore government announced that economic growth for the whole year of 2006 was 7.9%, higher than the originally expected 7.7%. Singapore's unemployment rate is around 2.2% as of 20th Feb, 2009.[6] As of August 8, 2010, Singapore is the fastest growing economy in the world, with a growth rate of 17.9% for the first half of 2010.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore

 

[buster]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/monetary-morality/

"How often do you hear so-called fiscal conservatives resort to personal arguments like, "Well, I have to balance MY budget," or "I could make everything work if I could just print all the money I wanted, too!"

It's akin to the impulse to constantly compare government to a business when the two enterprises are nothing alike -- they have different goals, different structures, different mechanisms. Yet there's this pervasive feeling among fiscal conservatives that government is "getting away with something" when it's just doing its job -- it's almost as if they've personalized the government into the bad neighbor who leaves trash out overnight and has a rusting washing machine on the lawn."

You have been trying, very eloquently, to convince those who have an opposite view of your positions that they are wrong and hypocritical, based on facts, data, analysis, models, logic etc. You now see that because their views are faith based rather than fact based, it will be impossible to convince them otherwise. This is why your arguments, however rational and correct will not move anyone who thinks your position is immoral.

Unfortunately, once this battle is lost, and it is currently being lost, the future of the U. S. for continuing to be a great power and economic powerhouse that lives up to the ideals of the founders is also being lost.

"The logic of Ron Paul and Libertarianism is that there should be no government at all. I try to get my libertarian friends to justify having any government. They have trouble with it because they have never come at the question from that angle. A particularly hard point for them is the existence of money which is itself a social phenomenon and not an individual one. We cannot each have his own money which is distinct from the money of others."

 

[buster]

http://moslereconomics.com/2009/12/10/7-deadly-innocent-frauds/

 

[jsharp]

Krugman is tiring. His 'economic theories' seem to be more dependent on who's in power at a given time than on what's actually happening in the economy. Of late he's become especially shrill as he's veered off into areas where he's obviously as clueless as he is agenda driven. Shill is probably the word I'm looking for...

Some of the comments are classic though. If you ( not you Buster, those making the comments ) build enough strawmen you can really have fun knocking them down. They're still strawmen though all the same.

 

[genynnc]

Originally Posted By: casperfun
... and when I was a financial regulator I was a leader in cutting away many dumb requirements. But we have just experienced the epic ability of the anti-regulators to kill well over ten million jobs. The anti-regulators subverted the rule of law and allowed elite frauds to loot with impunity.


Casper, come on now. I think this statment might be meant for a highway billboard just outside of San Francisco but really? If you belive this, then I'm really astounded, especially since you are a former agency employee. I'm assuming you see the "anti-regulators" and the financial/banking/subprime sector as one in the same?

Originally Posted By: buster
ALL of the most successful economies in the world are "mixed". You seem to have this fantasy that a free market exists. We all know the gov. creates problems, but it's also part of the market system.


This is a really good quote. There is NOT one purely free market economy in the world period. They are all mixed. As much as I would like one to exist, it doesn't. They fail to exist for many reasons on many levels.

Originally Posted By: buster
It's akin to the impulse to constantly compare government to a business when the two enterprises are nothing alike -- they have different goals, different structures, different mechanisms.


Another good quote. While I don't fully accept the explanation following, I'll give you my take. Goverment has no price mechanism, that is, it produces nothing. It is guided by perverse incentives, such as how budgets are determined for this year, next year, etc... (spend all the funds allocated so you can show you need X% more for next year.) There are few if any incentives for workers, managers, appointees to improve efficiency, streamline operations, etc... No pay for performance. Few if any metrics for judging performance. It's not that I think that government workers or the agencies are there to sit on their thumbs and soak up tax payer money. The system is just antiquated. Although I believe some shouldn't be necessary, I don't perceive them in a jaded way.

Originally Posted By: buster
"The logic of Ron Paul and Libertarianism is that there should be no government at all. I try to get my libertarian friends to justify having any government. They have trouble with it because they have never come at the question from that angle.


Buster, not sure if this is your quote or you are quoting another individual, however, if this is your experience, then the so called Libertarians that you know have very shallow understanding of the ideology they claim as their own. I'm a libertarian but not one of the "Big L's". I don't believe in anarchy. Primarily because it doesn't scale with population size. I do believe in some government. As social beings we need some form of harmony to exist in a society. And that means every individual has to forgo some liberties for the creation of a nation/state/town/whateveryoulike and to be included. Just how much is the argument that is at hand.

I think the thread has officialy been drawn off-course?

 

[buster]

"Capitalism without regulation is like a bar fight. Capitalism with regulation is a prize fight." ~ Marc Chandler

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: genynnc

I'm assuming you see the "anti-regulators" and the financial/banking/subprime sector as one in the same?



Well sure! If Congresscritters take money from wall street, what to you think they're going to do?

 

[buster]

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=13078#more-13078


The last budget surplus ended in 2001. It was the largest budget surplus since 1927 - 1930.

This is the record:

1. 1817-21: In five years, the national debt was reduced by 29 percent, to $90 million. A depression began in 1819.

2. 1823-36: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 99.7 percent, to $38,000. A depression began in 1837.
...
3. 1852-57: In six years, the debt was reduced by 59 percent, to $28.7 million. A depression began in 1857..

4. 1867-73: In seven years, the debt was reduced by 27 percent, to $2.2 billion. A depression began in 1873.

5. 1880-93: In 14 years, the debt was reduced by 57 percent, to $1 billion. A depression began in 1893.

6. 1920-30: In 11 years, the debt was reduced by 36 percent, to $16.2 billion. A depression began in 1929.

 

[buster]

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/01/is-china-really-funding-the-us-debt/

"It’s not that us MMTers are “loonies”. It’s simply that we understand reserve accounting. We are not working under the false premise that we live in a gold standard based monetary system. Much of neoclassical economics is based on a monetary system in which the USA does not exist. Just look at the breakdown of the money multiplier in recent years. It’s all nonsense, but we are force fed this stuff by old men with bow ties on who were taught the same lessons by the men with bow ties on before them. Unfortunately, these men were educated in a world that is now largely defunct.

The simple fact is that China funds not one penny of the US deficit. They receive pieces of paper with old dead white men on them and they wisely moves those dollars from a checking account into a savings account. The US govt accounts for this as “debt”, but it is not debt in the traditional sense. In fact, by identity, this “debt” is private sector wealth. The US govt is never revenue constrained. The US govt does not even need to sell bonds to spend. It’s a simple reserve drain that helps the Fed hit its overnight rate.

The simple fact that China funds nothing can be seen by studying bond auction data. Reserve forecasters at the Fed ensure that the Primary Dealers can always make a market in govt bonds. That is part of the agreement in becoming a PD after all. If you actually take the time to study the bond data you’ll notice that the PD’s can ALWAYS take down the entire auction. But we allow foreign bidders and whatnot. I guess it’s our way of being “fair”. But the truth is, if China and Japan and everyone stopped showing up at auctions the bonds would still get sold. The PD’s would buy them, execute the drain and we’d all go on telling ourselves that we can afford to spend more money. It’s really just a political charade that comforts the lawyers in Congress into thinking that the US govt is “funded” and that they can go along their merry way spending money on whatever it is they dream up.

An alchemist is never revenue constrained. And yes, the US govt is no different than an alchemist. When we spend money we tell men and women to walk into a room and change numbers in an account. It’s that simple. A bond market is only necessary for revenue constrained entities (states, corps, EMU nations, etc). We could end the bond market over the course of several years if we had leaders that understood the system in which we reside. Instead, we all go around telling ourselves that the USA is revenue constrained, there are constraints on the lawyers in DC and the Fed controls the entire operation. It’s all a destructive myth that generally serves to feed political rhetoric and nothing more."

Unfortunately, very few people realize this. Deficit hysteria is winning the war and as a result we will all suffer.

 

[Vizzy]

One solution ....the US PEOPLE need to force the elite (err, our gov't public servants??)

To impose tariffs on any country that is a slave wage nation....unless this is done and soon the middle class in the USA is DOOMED forever.

If you want the US to look like a third world country just keep buying your slave wage goods, and know that your grandchildren will be living like slaves, just like most 99.9% of the chinese do.

 

[Blaze]

I wonder if those people (taxpayers) can ask for thier money back??
-----------------------------
BEIJING — Aided by at least $43 million in assistance from the government of Massachusetts and an innovative solar energy technology, Evergreen Solar emerged in the last three years as the third-largest maker of solar panels in the United States.

But now the company is closing its main American factory, laying off the 800 workers by the end of March and shifting production to a joint venture with a Chinese company in central China. Evergreen cited the much higher government support available in China.

The factory closing in Devens, Mass., which Evergreen announced earlier this week, has set off political recriminations and finger-pointing in Massachusetts. And it comes just as President Hu Jintao of China is scheduled for a state visit next week to Washington, where the agenda is likely to include tensions between the United States and China over trade and energy policy.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/business/energy-environment/15solar.html?_r=1

 

[buster]

I have no idea what the answer is. I just don't like myths. We are not broke. Start with that.