4WD
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If you don’t have NG - that might be a state or local decision
Even with 2.5 Million EVs on the road, total U.S. power generation goes down
- Thread starter Rmay635703
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Owen Lucas
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Yes sir.
"Energy Information Agency (EIA) estimates that large-scale cryptocurrency operations are now consuming over 2 percent of the US's electricity. That's roughly the equivalent of having added an additional state to the grid over just the last three years."
Over 2 percent of the US’s electricity generation now goes to bitcoin
US government tracking the energy implications of booming bitcoin mining in US.
arstechnica.com
This is not a true statement.
People should make use of the links I posted on the 1st page and do some actual research into the BES.
dnewton3
Staff member
That the US is down 1% in total energy consumption is nice, but it's at the effect of increases in efficiency elsewhere that can't be duplicated easily moving forward.
The law of diminishing returns applies here. Yes; homes, appliances, etc have all become much more efficient. Those gains, however, are getting maxed out; there's not much juice left in the squeeze. The % gains yet to manifest into reality are going down quickly. And the costs to achieve those gains rise exponentially. Anytime you approach the edge of a performance envelope, the ROI on improvements fades quickly. If you can spend one dollar to gain 50% improvement, that's a no-brainer! But if you have to spend $10 to get a 1% improvement, or $100 to get a .1% improvement, there little to no interest in going after it. The inverse relationship of ROI makes ever increasing improvements unpalatable as you approach the fringes. Always been like that; always will be.
You can't say that homes, appliances, etc are going to drastically get more efficient over the next 20 years like they did in the last 20 years. That's a false assumption.
So adding more EVs won't be offset in the power grid demand by asking other industries and other products to make up for the electrification demands.
The vast majority of the US utilizes natural gas for all manner of use.
You think you're going to overcome all that energy demand, allowing you to switch over to electric power for households and EVs, simply by "improving" your electric toaster, refrigerator or TV; by upgrading the insulation in your home?
Let's take the topic of electric water heaters as an example ... There are two types; tank and tankless.
While tankless units do consume less energy in a day's use, they have a very high instantaneous demand. They don't store energy like a tank model does. So when everyone gets home from work and starts their tasks of washing clothes, washing dishes, taking showers, etc .... the PEAK demands from tankless models can surge higher than the cyclic demands of tank models.
If we converted a house from natural gas to all electric, especially an older home with only a 100amp service (of which millions upon millions still exist today), you'd probably overlead the incoming service line with:
- electric tankless water heater
- a/c (summer) or electric furnace (winter)
- electric stove/oven
- electric clothes dryer
And now you want to add an EV into the mix to be charged???????
I find it satirically laughable that CA wants to go all electric, when 80+% of their homes are on natural gas. EIGHTY PERCENT !!!! And they want to go "all electric"? They can't hardly handle the loads they have now, when only 20% of their homes are all electric. There are rolling brown and blackouts in high demand days. There are power grid shutdowns when storms approach. And I'm supposed to believe they can handle moving to all electric and using EVs by just improving some home and appliance efficiencies???? Puh-leeezzzzzzz ... that's just plain stupid.
Don't assume history will repeat itself. The gains of the last few decades in home efficiency won't be reproduced into the next few decades. The net demand of switching to electricity will SERIOUSLY strain the electric grid.
No wind turbine fields or solar panel farms are ever going to solve this problem; never, ever happen.
More EVs on the road won't fix the problem (and they also generate many more issues of toxic waste, unsolved recycling problems, etc ...)
No "efficiency" standards for household appliances or home construction will make this happen; never, ever.
Rather than wasting money on fractionally incremental "efficiency" improvements, we should be looking at significant power production increases ...
The solution to future energy demands in North America is to develop long term strategies towards macro nuclear energy supply, along with a massive investment in the infrastructure upgrades. Period.
The law of diminishing returns applies here. Yes; homes, appliances, etc have all become much more efficient. Those gains, however, are getting maxed out; there's not much juice left in the squeeze. The % gains yet to manifest into reality are going down quickly. And the costs to achieve those gains rise exponentially. Anytime you approach the edge of a performance envelope, the ROI on improvements fades quickly. If you can spend one dollar to gain 50% improvement, that's a no-brainer! But if you have to spend $10 to get a 1% improvement, or $100 to get a .1% improvement, there little to no interest in going after it. The inverse relationship of ROI makes ever increasing improvements unpalatable as you approach the fringes. Always been like that; always will be.
You can't say that homes, appliances, etc are going to drastically get more efficient over the next 20 years like they did in the last 20 years. That's a false assumption.
So adding more EVs won't be offset in the power grid demand by asking other industries and other products to make up for the electrification demands.
The vast majority of the US utilizes natural gas for all manner of use.
You think you're going to overcome all that energy demand, allowing you to switch over to electric power for households and EVs, simply by "improving" your electric toaster, refrigerator or TV; by upgrading the insulation in your home?
Let's take the topic of electric water heaters as an example ... There are two types; tank and tankless.
While tankless units do consume less energy in a day's use, they have a very high instantaneous demand. They don't store energy like a tank model does. So when everyone gets home from work and starts their tasks of washing clothes, washing dishes, taking showers, etc .... the PEAK demands from tankless models can surge higher than the cyclic demands of tank models.
If we converted a house from natural gas to all electric, especially an older home with only a 100amp service (of which millions upon millions still exist today), you'd probably overlead the incoming service line with:
- electric tankless water heater
- a/c (summer) or electric furnace (winter)
- electric stove/oven
- electric clothes dryer
And now you want to add an EV into the mix to be charged???????
I find it satirically laughable that CA wants to go all electric, when 80+% of their homes are on natural gas. EIGHTY PERCENT !!!! And they want to go "all electric"? They can't hardly handle the loads they have now, when only 20% of their homes are all electric. There are rolling brown and blackouts in high demand days. There are power grid shutdowns when storms approach. And I'm supposed to believe they can handle moving to all electric and using EVs by just improving some home and appliance efficiencies???? Puh-leeezzzzzzz ... that's just plain stupid.
Don't assume history will repeat itself. The gains of the last few decades in home efficiency won't be reproduced into the next few decades. The net demand of switching to electricity will SERIOUSLY strain the electric grid.
No wind turbine fields or solar panel farms are ever going to solve this problem; never, ever happen.
More EVs on the road won't fix the problem (and they also generate many more issues of toxic waste, unsolved recycling problems, etc ...)
No "efficiency" standards for household appliances or home construction will make this happen; never, ever.
Rather than wasting money on fractionally incremental "efficiency" improvements, we should be looking at significant power production increases ...
The solution to future energy demands in North America is to develop long term strategies towards macro nuclear energy supply, along with a massive investment in the infrastructure upgrades. Period.
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Depends, what region are you talking, would Enron be considered a negative effect of deregulation?
What does Enron have to do with Brown/Blackouts or supply issues? It doesn't.
Many of the issues on the BES are caused by regulations imposed by bureaucracies like the EPA that don't study impacts or even consult FERC/NERC or industry prior to implementing.
EPA is the most visible regulating agency, but places like San Diego have forbidden gas in any new construction. No gas lines connecting new subdivisions, while they tell us not to charge EVs during heat waves. Global warming is making a certain subset of folks rich........
Bad part is that regulation the EPA (and other bureaucracies) push out have impacts on industries they don't regulate, such as the BES.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I have flown out of IAH for many years and watched the pine forest disappear as the 3500 SF “boxes” are left in the wide open sun where the trees once thrived. DINKs & a dog in many cases …
Yeah, cheap loans, cheap labor, min specs, and lower taxes -
Not anymore - and taxes and utilities continue to rise …
But thousands of these big boxes remain - and are a big drain on the energy grid …
Yeah, cheap loans, cheap labor, min specs, and lower taxes -
Not anymore - and taxes and utilities continue to rise …
But thousands of these big boxes remain - and are a big drain on the energy grid …
I'm pretty sure that the preferred time to charge an EV is off-peak when HVAC use is low.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Until it’s not …
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
The one or the other can be less than ideal …
We switched everything to gas including the stove top - except electric double ovens for more precise control …
Industrial similarity was when I toured a new tubular plant by us -
27 acres under roof …
Well they need to get allot of large steel billets cherry red hot - and that’s a great job for NG - However after the piercing and forming - the tubes must be heat treated in computer controlled ovens - they are electric for more precise control …
We switched everything to gas including the stove top - except electric double ovens for more precise control …
Industrial similarity was when I toured a new tubular plant by us -
27 acres under roof …
Well they need to get allot of large steel billets cherry red hot - and that’s a great job for NG - However after the piercing and forming - the tubes must be heat treated in computer controlled ovens - they are electric for more precise control …
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
What I mean is at some point there are several times more EV’s …
They need to get busy on reliable sources …
I wonder if there was this much whining when the horseless carriage supplanted actual horses? The die has been cast. get on board or get out of the way. I myself don't plan on replacing my ICE vehicles ever, if I can get away with it. I am from a large family of 7 kids, now all adults over 58 years of age. There are 3 of us holdouts still clinging to non electric/hybrid vehicles. I told my wife if they come out with a full size vehicle with 500 mile range, I will take a look.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Of course a bunch of them with EV’s also own an ICE vehicle …
Different tools for now …
Homer is a science denier, LOL. Master Of Puppets wasn't released until 1986.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
You never get it bcs you are too narrative driven …
Back on ignore …
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
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