electric cars

[pezzy84]

Oil won’t go away anywhere near our lifetimes. Imagine what it will take to completely rebuild the world’s infrastructure.

On ev’s,there was a Ford hybrid who’s replacement battery was north of $8000.

And there are gas/diesel transmissions that cost $4500+ to replace that may go kaput at 150k miles. I remember reading about some Ford 3.5/3.7 water pumps causing a $7k+ engine replacement.

 

[MaximaGuy]

And there are gas/diesel transmissions that cost $4500+ to replace that may go kaput at 150k miles. I remember reading about some Ford 3.5/3.7 water pumps causing a $7k+ engine replacement.

Pl. don't relive that water pump video in the Tauruses. Only iddiioots would design an engine like that, that is why they are existing everything other than the F trucks and truck based SUVs. They are on a clear path with no obstructions heading at 100MPH to oblivion (all big3 are doomed, they were doomed by their follies and now EV, no chance whatsoever)

 

[SR1919]

I can comment on affordability - see E-Golf in my sig. Picked it up for $12.5k as a CPO so comes with a 2 year/24k warranty w/$50 deductible, battery is covered for another 5 years and ~40k miles. $12.5k for a BEV with cloth seats is TOTAL LUXURY for smug people right?

Maintenance: Except for an annual visual inspection and tire rotation that runs ~$60 per the post cards I get from the local dealership, there are cabin filters every 2 years, tires when they wear out, wipers and thats really about it. I doubt I will have to address the brakes anytime soon as most of the braking duty is handled by regeneration, I have to make a point to do some high speed aggressive stops off the highway to clean off the friction brakes because they are used so infrequently. It appears prior owner on 3 year lease did not even take it in for the inspections - based on Carfax they brought it in 2x over 3/59k miles to replace key fob batteries - basically zero maintenance. Whether they rotated the tires or not I have no idea.

Economy/fuel cost: Don't paint everyones drive/commute with the same brush. My commute is not friendly to any gas or diesel (3 miles, ~18-20 stoplights, 35-40 MPH speed limits, pre-pandemic that 3 miles could take 45-1 hour to complete in the afternoon). Even rental Camry and Altima I had were sub 20 MPG average after I slugged them out on my commute for ~1 week - these cars are rated at 29+ MPG city and I was seeing ~10 MPG less than that. My '12 VW TDI would usually average about 21-22 MPG on same commute (vs 29 city rating), my departed MB E350 4Matic would hover around 11-12 MPG (vs 17), my MB C300 would hover around 13-14 MPG (vs 18). EPA city MPG doesn't mean crap when you are creeping stoplight to stoplight with a few times actually hitting the speed limit.

I'm at about .056/mile for electric cost on my E-Golf for the past 6 months, this is very slightly inflated as I have a few DC charging sessions mixed in and I can get distracted and not stop the charging station at work once my car is full so I'm paying to just be plugged in. Based on 19 MPG I had in the Camry over a week I would have been at about .099/mile, lets say the Corolla does 2 MPG better in my commute I would still be at .090/mile based on current regular unleaded prices in my area ($1.89).

The E-Golf is very well suited for my commute and is our exclusive in town car, the TDI is for when we need to venture beyond the E-Golf range which are drives better suited to the TDI.

So no - electric cars are not "luxury replacement that smug people can feel good about.". They are a tool that will fit certain lifestyles, no they will not fit every scenario just like my departed TDI did not fit in with my commute.

Thanks pezzy84. Very good summary. I also have a TDI, in my case a 2004 Passat wagon that is our primary road trip vehicle. Great torque efficiency combined with very safe highway driving. Lifetime MPG is 37.3 with around 45% city (short trips). Eventually we might replace our other vehicle (2006 Mazda 5) with an EV for city driving. The Mazda is driven only around town. The e-Golf that you got seems very good value. I would like LED lights and it looks like the force you to get the SEL version to get them.

It looks like there are several options to get a three year old used EV coming off lease for like $13K. For 100% city driving I think the cost of ownership for the next 7 years or so will be better than a gasoline equivalent. The only catch might be that dealers in your locality might not service EVs and you will have to get comfortable with that.

In terms of value I think paying an additional premium to get a small EV with a longer range (more than 150 miles or so) does not make economical sense. Let's face it most people will not be driving a Bolt to do road trips with the family. Too small.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Do ev’s charge have the range of a full gas tank yet?

 

[PimTac]

If EVs were such the bees knees then why haven’t the government fleets changed over to them? Lots of city, county and state vehicles could easily be switched to EV. Utilities like power and gas should be all on board.

 

[UncleDave]

Do ev’s charge have the range of a full gas tank yet?

Usually not, but sometimes.

Depends on the vehicles you are comparing.

If one compares the range of an equivalent performance ICE car then it usually gets closer.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Do ev’s charge have the range of a full gas tank yet?

Generally speaking, no. Teslas have the longest range, from about 250 to 400 miles.
A 250 range Model 3 is about $38K and the 400 mile Model S is gonna run you $100K.
They ain't cheap.
The 2020 Chevy Bolt is about 250 miles as well and is much cheaper.

Most other brands have less mileage than the cheapest Tesla, perhaps 200 miles or less.
I consider these cars specialty in many ways. Toys, in some ways.
But for those who they work for, love 'em.

Remember, EVs are in their infancy as mass produced vehicles.
People like me are early adopters. Better prices, range, and more choices are coming.

 

[SR1919]

If EVs were such the bees knees then why haven’t the government fleets changed over to them? Lots of city, county and state vehicles could easily be switched to EV. Utilities like power and gas should be all on board.

The way I see it, it is going to be very gradual. Smaller vehicles for city transportation are going to take the lead. I could see taxis gradually becoming more electrical. Especially in large congested metropolitan areas with a lot of stop and go.

 

[mightymousetech]

Do ev’s charge have the range of a full gas tank yet?

That matters less on an EV. When you charge at home, you leave every day with a “full tank”.

 

[MaximaGuy]

The way I see it, it is going to be very gradual. Smaller vehicles for city transportation are going to take the lead. I could see taxis gradually becoming more electrical. Especially in large congested metropolitan areas with a lot of stop and go.

Correct, and you will see change happening in city councils etc. NG was not thought off but they are predominantly the choice if one has to change over and many councils are going and adopting NG (natural gas). EV is next but then as JeffK said more choices and lower cost are definitely in the horizon. Tesla being the favorite but favorites can be disloged quickly - that is American capitalism with real value for customers.

MPT (miles/tank) and MPC (miles/charge) are quite close wrt Tesla and may be MPC higher in the case of Tesla (compared to a 19G tank V6)

 

[aquariuscsm]

Generally speaking, no. Teslas have the longest range, from about 250 to 400 miles.
A 250 range Model 3 is about $38K and the 400 mile Model S is gonna run you $100K.
They ain't cheap.
The 2020 Chevy Bolt is about 250 miles as well and is much cheaper.

Most other brands have less mileage than the cheapest Tesla, perhaps 200 miles or less.
I consider these cars specialty in many ways. Toys, in some ways.
But for those who they work for, love 'em.

Remember, EVs are in their infancy as mass produced vehicles.
People like me are early adopters. Better prices, range, and more choices are coming.

I'm actually seeing Teslas all over the place. They're getting really popular. I'd love to see them build a "sports coupe" type car with analog style gauges instead of the touch screen. That would be sweet!

 

[JeffKeryk]

I'm actually seeing Teslas all over the place. They're getting really popular. I'd love to see them build a "sports coupe" type car with analog style gauges instead of the touch screen. That would be sweet!

Tesla Model 3s are jokingly called the new Corolla around here. Silicon Valley is a Tesla bubble.
As far as analog gauges, well, that ain't a Tesla. Teslas are different. Drive one. The Model 3 is a sports coupe; they beat the snot outta the BMW 3 Series. In fact the Germans love 'em.
The one thing I miss is the side mirror blind spot monitors. Tesla identifies and shows objects on the tablet, but I wish they would include them on the side mirrors as well.

 

[MaximaGuy]

Nikola dropped 30% as the phony Trevor is out. This guy is not an engineer and talks engineering (high end engineering) making a fool of investors. Hinderberg Research was right, they don't have a product that can be powered by its own propulsion. Phony!!!

 

[PimTac]

Tesla Model 3s are jokingly called the new Corolla around here. Silicon Valley is a Tesla bubble.
As far as analog gauges, well, that ain't a Tesla. Teslas are different. Drive one. The Model 3 is a sports coupe; they beat the snot outta the BMW 3 Series. In fact the Germans love 'em.
The one thing I miss is the side mirror blind spot monitors. Tesla identifies and shows objects on the tablet, but I wish they would include them on the side mirrors as well.

I had thought those BSM alerts in the side mirrors were a required regulation? Apparently not.

While my Mazda has them I use the BSM indicators in my HUD. That saves me the motion of looking at the mirror initially. Of course I verify if I do make a lane change.

 

[SR1919]

Question for pezzy84 and other EV owners who would like to chime in. Did you research the repairability of your vehicle batteries before the purchase? Back so many years ago they were not considered repairable, you would have to put a new one at a $$$ cost (thousands). Then gradually the price of a battery replacement came down considerably. Finally alternative repair options came to take bad cells and keep going.

 

[OVERKILL]

Question for pezzy84 and other EV owners who would like to chime in. Did you research the repairability of your vehicle batteries before the purchase? Back so many years ago they were not considered repairable, you would have to put a new one at a $$$ cost (thousands). Then gradually the price of a battery replacement came down considerably. Finally alternative repair options came to take bad cells and keep going.

Yes, when I had the e-tron, one of the benefits was that individual modules could be replaced.

 

[SR1919]

[duplicate]

 

[Job]

The Bolt was upgraded to a 66 kwhr battery for 2020. GM is making more new cars including a larger Bolt soon. Going to get interesting. I actually am thinking about the 2020 Bolt. Or a Ford Explorer.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The Bolt was upgraded to a 66 kwhr battery for 2020. GM is making more new cars including a larger Bolt soon. Going to get interesting. I actually am thinking about the 2020 Bolt. Or a Ford Explorer.

My next door neighbor just got a 2020 Bolt; this is her 2nd Bolt and 3rd EV.
She has driven our Model 3; she likes her Bolt more I think.

 

[MaximaGuy]

California announced no gas after 2035, although highly aspirational, only aspires can get anything done. If CA left it to EPA and the cronies we will have gas for another 100 years. EV wouldn't have been a reality but for CA and all the great innovation that takes place. The country is easily 20 yrs behind CA in thinking and getting to a greener world. Go CA!!!