electric cars

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by Rmay635703
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
For what it's worth you can get a 2016 Mirai for $5000 off the auction block


Yea sure. Show me where. Even wrecked ones bring more than that: https://www.copart.com/lot/48109809


Why would you buy a wreck for $10,000 when a used example is $12,000?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/782255081/overview/


You wouldn't but I want to know which auction block you can get one off of for $5000 that isn't smashed.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here is a Tesla S at a small charger at a coffee shop down the road. Currently the Tesla website shows a 373 mile range and 2.4 sec 0-60 mph.


Keep in mind, to get that 0-60 time, you have to order the P version. This adds an immediate $20,000 to the price. Not that the Long Range, which starts at $109,000CDN is any slouch, it does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted by CT8

So true. I am still waiting on the Hydrogen revoloution.


It's coming. Along with the fusion revolution.

It's only ten years away....

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
How do I gas up my ICE cars get gas if there is no power?
If you had a solar battery storage you would have power, right?
I am not sure who is creating disasters, beyond PGE.


Don't they have backup generators for when the power goes out? And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

I've never seen underground megawatt/mega-votage transmission lines underground other than inside the city.

Expensive and failure prone in different and disturbing ways I would guess.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
How do I gas up my ICE cars get gas if there is no power?
If you had a solar battery storage you would have power, right?
I am not sure who is creating disasters, beyond PGE.


Don't they have backup generators for when the power goes out? And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

I've never seen underground megawatt/mega-votage transmission lines underground other than inside the city.

Expensive and failure prone in different and disturbing ways I would guess.


I'm talking more about the residential lines. The megawatt/mega-voltage transmission lines are generally cleared of surrounding brush and are built to stand high winds. Regardless, what's the diameter of the cables? A few inches? They don't seem to have issues burying water lines underground that are 6-12 inches diameter or sewer lines that are a few feet.

 

[MCompact]

I loved my i3; it was perfect for our purposes. If I didn't already have the Mini for a commuter car I would pick up a used i3.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by billt460
Look at what is happening in California with the electric grid as we speak. Most all of it brought on by ignorant environmentalists one way or another. Not a, "Historic Wind Event". The same clowns who are constantly pushing for all of this electric and hydrogen nonsense. Now, try to imagine those same people trying to evacuate their burning neighborhoods in their battery powered wonders. All with no power to charge them.

These people not only create disasters, but are so detached from reality, they have the ability to make them worse than anyone could imagine.

Hmm... How do I gas up my ICE cars get gas if there is no power?
If you had a solar battery storage you would have power, right?
I am not sure who is creating disasters, beyond PGE.


Everything has its warts, and a disaster situation is a different beast.

Thinking about after Sandy when the lines to what gas stations had power, were extreme, and quantities were limited. You were only as good as the extra tanks of fuel you carried in your car.

Or after Irma and Maria, when your food supply was only as good as your ability to get diesel delivered.

Interestingly, down in the islands, those with electric and hybrid cars were setting up their own little micro grids, and at least keeping 12v pumps getting toilet and drinking water from cisterns, and the refrigerator running every so often.

In some places the cows supply freezes up in the winter.

Everything pollutes, and what doesn't has long half life's of killer radiation to handle.

Getting 25, 50, 150kW of electric into something is no joke. For batteries, do it too hot, too cold, too fast, and you're always compromising life.

Nothing is free.

The environmentalists may be wacky, but nobody is perfect. To vilify them and not vilify others is only telling half the story. The better solution would be open and objective discourse in the pros and cons of each approach, and what the risks and mitigations might be, because any solution carries risk and problems.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by atikovi


I'm talking more about the residential lines. The megawatt/mega-voltage transmission lines are generally cleared of surrounding brush and are built to stand high winds. Regardless, what's the diameter of the cables? A few inches? They don't seem to have issues burying water lines underground that are 6-12 inches diameter or sewer lines that are a few feet.


Totally different physics when talking electric conductors that can arc and jump, have magnetic fields that make them do strange things, and generate heat as current is carried.

Not saying undoable, just saying different than a water pipe.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by atikovi
And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

Much of he PGE infrastructure is 60 yo 70 years old. Outdated, poorly maintained.
The heavily wooded areas are worse due to strong rain last winter and lot of sun this year fostering growth.
Trimming and clearing goes on constantly but is expensive and dangerous.
The area covered by PGE is more than 70,000 square miles.

Recipe for disaster. Currently, the Kincade fire is 10% contained.
The winds are not in our favor; 80 to 90 mph gusts.
180K people evacuated in Sonoma County.
99% of Marin is without electricity. FYI, this is where the really rich people live.
Over 940K people without power.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by MCompact
I loved my i3; it was perfect for our purposes. If I didn't already have the Mini for a commuter car I would pick up a used i3.


Has the regulators allowed it to operate ideally, it would be a perfect embodiment. Baseload a small generator which is optimized for lowest fuel use and pollution, then run like. A hybrid/eV depending upon condition. It what happened? Our regulations limited the turn on conditions for the range extender generator to a condition where it was too late.

Could an end user reflash the sw to a more rational approach?

 

[jazztrumpet216]

Lots of oil company sponsored FUD on here. Electric cars are better in just about every way. More torque available from zero rpm, cheaper to operate, less maintenance costs. Yeah, battery problems can happen... so can engine and transmission problems in ICE cars. The biggest obstacles to widespread adoption are range for long distance drivers, and the propaganda spread by big oil. New advances in battery technology are happening frequently, while ICE technology is right about at its limits.

People are inherently afraid of what they do not understand. Research from unbiased sources and actual ownership experienced are key to combatting the dubious "facts," and in some cases, outright lies, presented about electric cars.

Originally Posted by Cujet
Short of some miraculous and unknown new battery technology, the EV will not replicate the capability of fuel powered vehicles. Example: A Nissan Altima can achieve 600 miles of highway range at 85MPH. The best $120,000 EV can do about 240 miles at that speed.


How often does the affect the average person? Once a year? Less? DCFC is available for those rare instances.

Originally Posted by Cujet
In locations where electricity is expensive, it's cheaper per mile, to drive a "dual fuel" (gas and electric) Chevy Volt on gas. 11c per mile on electric and 5c per mile on gas.


Please find an area in the country where electricity costs $.50/kWh yet gas only costs $1.75/gallon. I'll wait.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by JHZR2
Totally different physics when talking electric conductors that can arc and jump, have magnetic fields that make them do strange things, and generate heat as current is carried.


Underground where it's a constant 55F year round, the heat would be dissipated and arcing not an issue far as I know. Sure it would be expensive but so are houses burning down. Many planned residential communities around here have underground power since the 60's.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by atikovi
And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

Much of he PGE infrastructure is 60 yo 70 years old. Outdated, poorly maintained.
The heavily wooded areas are worse due to strong rain last winter and lot of sun this year fostering growth.
Trimming and clearing goes on constantly but is expensive and dangerous.
The area covered by PGE is more than 70,000 square miles.

Recipe for disaster. Currently, the Kincade fire is 10% contained.
The winds are not in our favor; 80 to 90 mph gusts.
180K people evacuated in Sonoma County.
99% of Marin is without electricity. FYI, this is where the really rich people live.
Over 940K people without power.





Since the beginning of time California has had Santa Ana winds and fires. The distribution of electricity has been in place for several decades. Why all of a sudden is this a problem that has to be solved by cutting power off? It sounds like a knee jerk reaction to me.

The better answer is to clean the forests of debris which accumulated due to environmental regulations.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here is a Tesla S at a small charger at a coffee shop down the road. Currently the Tesla website shows a 373 mile range and 2.4 sec 0-60 mph.


Keep in mind, to get that 0-60 time, you have to order the P version. This adds an immediate $20,000 to the price. Not that the Long Range, which starts at $109,000CDN is any slouch, it does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.

And if you charge it in the GTA, it's nuclear powered!

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by atikovi
And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

Much of he PGE infrastructure is 60 yo 70 years old. Outdated, poorly maintained.
The heavily wooded areas are worse due to strong rain last winter and lot of sun this year fostering growth.
Trimming and clearing goes on constantly but is expensive and dangerous.
The area covered by PGE is more than 70,000 square miles.

Recipe for disaster. Currently, the Kincade fire is 10% contained.
The winds are not in our favor; 80 to 90 mph gusts.
180K people evacuated in Sonoma County.
99% of Marin is without electricity. FYI, this is where the really rich people live.
Over 940K people without power.





Since the beginning of time California has had Santa Ana winds and fires. The distribution of electricity has been in place for several decades. Why all of a sudden is this a problem that has to be solved by cutting power off? It sounds like a knee jerk reaction to me.

The better answer is to clean the forests of debris which accumulated due to environmental regulations.


Bingo! We have a winner here. Clear, concise and accurate.

As to putting electrics underground it is done with upscale neighborhoods for aesthetic reasons only, during the initial stages of development, and rarely, if ever, after infrastructure is in place. For the high power transmission lines I believe it is just not practical, but would defer to a team of power electrical engineers and civil engineers with a geologist or two mixed in if they had a different opinion. Certainly not an "internet expert". I recognize my own limitations in this area having been trained as an electronics engineer with only an introduction to power transmission.

To the comment that clearing underbrush and trees is too expensive, that is a red herring. It's been done for over 100 years just fine, thank you. What is different now is State and local governments making it difficult to impossible for power companies to do the necessary work. And if a fire does start, current forestry practices dictated by ignorant lawmakers rather than forestry experts make it a major event that cannot be contained.

 

[MrMoody]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Pelican
We are going electric, no doubt on that, but the answer is NOT the plug in, it takes too long, but the hydrogen fuel cell and Toyota already has cars sold in California.

So true. I am still waiting on the Hydrogen revoloution.

CNG is the better way to go and is available right now. Approximately $1.50 a gallon equivalent to gasoline. Domestic supply projected at hundreds of years. Burns very clean with minimal emissions. Little modification needed to current vehicles. Home refueling possible if you have a natural gas line to your house. Had a few of them 5-10 years ago when they were hot because of high gasoline prices. Just got an older Impala for peanuts because nobody knows anything about them.

Correct. Hydrogen is a pipe dream. It doesn't come out of the ground; it takes (some other source of) energy to produce. If you have cheap energy, you can synthesize heavier gas or liquid fuel (including gasoline) that is much easier to store and handle. Using ridiculously plentiful natural gas as a source, it is possible to synthesize gasoline at a cost almost competitive with oil. This is one of the factors keeping oil prices down. IBTL, BTW.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Here is a Tesla S at a small charger at a coffee shop down the road. Currently the Tesla website shows a 373 mile range and 2.4 sec 0-60 mph.


Keep in mind, to get that 0-60 time, you have to order the P version. This adds an immediate $20,000 to the price. Not that the Long Range, which starts at $109,000CDN is any slouch, it does 0-60 in 3.8 seconds.

And if you charge it in the GTA, it's nuclear powered!

LOL! yep, Pickering and Darlington FTW.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by MrMoody
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Pelican
We are going electric, no doubt on that, but the answer is NOT the plug in, it takes too long, but the hydrogen fuel cell and Toyota already has cars sold in California.

So true. I am still waiting on the Hydrogen revoloution.

CNG is the better way to go and is available right now. Approximately $1.50 a gallon equivalent to gasoline. Domestic supply projected at hundreds of years. Burns very clean with minimal emissions. Little modification needed to current vehicles. Home refueling possible if you have a natural gas line to your house. Had a few of them 5-10 years ago when they were hot because of high gasoline prices. Just got an older Impala for peanuts because nobody knows anything about them.

Correct. Hydrogen is a pipe dream. It doesn't come out of the ground; it takes (some other source of) energy to produce. If you have cheap energy, you can synthesize heavier gas or liquid fuel (including gasoline) that is much easier to store and handle. Using ridiculously plentiful natural gas as a source, it is possible to synthesize gasoline at a cost almost competitive with oil. This is one of the factors keeping oil prices down. IBTL, BTW.


Yep, synfuels using surplus nuclear power would make a lot of sense, as these plants are at their most economic when running at their highest CF.

 

[edwardh1]

taxis in peru use cng, tanks in the trunk

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by atikovi
And the whole power lines causing fires issue could have been prevented if they put the lines underground.

Much of he PGE infrastructure is 60 yo 70 years old. Outdated, poorly maintained.
The heavily wooded areas are worse due to strong rain last winter and lot of sun this year fostering growth.
Trimming and clearing goes on constantly but is expensive and dangerous.
The area covered by PGE is more than 70,000 square miles.

Recipe for disaster. Currently, the Kincade fire is 10% contained.
The winds are not in our favor; 80 to 90 mph gusts.
180K people evacuated in Sonoma County.
99% of Marin is without electricity. FYI, this is where the really rich people live.
Over 940K people without power.





Since the beginning of time California has had Santa Ana winds and fires. The distribution of electricity has been in place for several decades. Why all of a sudden is this a problem that has to be solved by cutting power off? It sounds like a knee jerk reaction to me.

The better answer is to clean the forests of debris which accumulated due to environmental regulations.

Please read what I posted. Clearing goes on all the time. Is there enough? Of course not.
The problem is in the old, neglected infrastructure.
Then we have a decent rain followed by warm summer and the wooded areas grow.
Trimming cannot keep up.

The high winds can carry an ember almost a mile.
PGE is negligent.

"Pacific Gas & Electric, California's biggest utility, says a broken jumper wire was found on a transmission tower near where the raging Kincade Fire broke out two days ago in northern California."