"E85 Does not harm Non-FlexFuel Engines"

[Falcon_LS]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, because I'm not really following this. But I came across this video on YouTube, whereby they look through the engine and fuel system of what they claim to be a 2000 Tahoe (which probably is a 1999):



Apparently, or at least according to these guys, it does a world of good. That orangey brown looking valve just looks wrong to me though.

 

[david_ES2]

that engine didnt really look clean at all if you ask me.

 

[ARB1977]

I wouldn't run that [censored] even if i could.

 

[simple_gifts]

"The American Coalition for Ethanol has commissioned a study...."

Where is the control group.

 

[MrBeachcomber]

Interesting video which equates lack of cylinder bore wear to the use of E85 instead of the oil used to lubricate the engine. I also enjoyed the use of a non-study vehicle's components as an example of what's wrong with gasoline.

The valves and spark plugs shown were a mess! The color may be off in the video, but certainly didn't look like anything like the light grayish brown I would expect in a well maintained SBC. The amount of carbon on the pistons was unbelievable. (I don't have that much carbon on my 1989 Corvette's pistons, and the vehicle has 261K+ miles on it!)

What was left out was the fuel costs for the "study". Given the number of miles driven and the fact that E85 is less efficient than gasoline, I'd like to know how much more E85 was used than a comparable vehicle using just gasoline. You think gas is expensive, try switching to E85!

Overall, Archer-Daniels must be smiling.

 

[Pablo]

I'm not afraid of ethanol as some seem to be. The problem is that it just doesn't currently make sense as a fuel in the USA - especially if you are using petro fuels to raise the feedstocks and distill it.

I've also always thought the talk of EtOH attacking polymers is WAY overblown. People confuse it with MeOH I guess. The engine looked just OK, dunno the oil and OCI. Typical SBC crud build up on dino oil. The spark plugs are original, or so they claim. I would have expected less carbon on the pistons with 85% EtOH, maybe just my perception - hard to tell in the video.

 

[zyxelenator]

Who wants to take a risk and try?

 

[Eddie]

History sugests that the seals in the fuel system are the weak arears. I will not be a "field tester with my vehicle" While it does get us away from foreign oil (somewhat as it costs to produce ethnoal) the reduction in mileage offsets the lower price.

 

[bepperb]

I love the paranoia about ethanol. In my mind (and we've had mandatory E10 since 1996) the only problem with it is the price and that's after a not-exactly-free-market subsidy.

I think the vast majority of cars could run on it if their ECU's would allow that long of an injection pulse (e85 requires more fuel, that the computer won't allow). There are tons of kits for this. But why would you want to do it, if you're using 20% more gas and it only costs 5% less?

 

[zyxelenator]

added 3 gallons today, to give it a try. I had half of tank of shell v power 93 octane, with octane booster and shell fuel cleaner. Googled about use of ethanol I regular cars. Some guys suggested to add around 30% of tank,so it won't drop high end torque and gain some lower. E85 was 3.35,premium was 3.85, so 50 cents difference. Car runs fine as before. When I use this tank wiill try to add e85 first,like 5 gallons, and drive to next gas stantion to see what happens,and top off with v power. Tank capacity is 18.5 gallons,but when light comes on, it fits 16 gallons.

 

[Robenstein]

Yeah I heard about a guy that tried this on an older 4.6L powered F150 at my old dealership. Ran three tanks through it thinking it was the bees knees till it burned the motor up from running too lean.

 

[zyxelenator]

http://members.tccoa.com/392bird/e85.htm
Some info about usage in performance engines.
My engine can run on all 3 grades here. Same engine in Lexus is recommended to use 93 octane. In Europe 92 is minimum,for modern cars, so I think 98 is recommended there. E-85 is about 105 octane...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
In Europe 92 is minimum,for modern cars, so I think 98 is recommended there.

Don't they use a different octane scale?

 

[zyxelenator]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
In Europe 92 is minimum,for modern cars, so I think 98 is recommended there.

Don't they use a different octane scale?

As I know it's same. That's why all European turbo cars require at least 92 octane here.
Couple years ago I was writing research paper for that topic. In short words: US went the way of big engines and superchargers, since tax based on the value of the car.And bigger engine and or supercharger is somewhat cheaper. Europe went with smaller engines,higher compression rates and turbochargers.Which require higher octane. Tax on cars based on engine volume.Plus different emission laws.
Only very rich people would own v8 cars, like M3 you have...

 

[Falcon_LS]

The default standard in Europe is 95 RON, which is 91 AKI. 98 RON, which is also available, would be 93 AKI.

Europe and many other parts of the world use Research Octane Number (RON), whilst North America uses Anti-Knock Index (AKI); which is RON + MON ÷ 2.

 

[zyxelenator]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
The default standard in Europe is 95 RON, which is 91 AKI. 98 RON, which is also available, would be 93 AKI.

Europe and many other parts of the world use Research Octane Number (RON), whilst North America uses Anti-Knock Index (AKI); which is RON + MON ÷ 2.

Yeap you are right. I guess I didn't really get into details of octane rating back that time.
Here is some stuff from wiki:E85 gasoline 94-96(AKI)
"Rumors about being corrosive

There have been many rumors going around that E85, which is biodegradable in water, can corrode a vehicle's fuel system, including the fuel tank. Although E85 is corrosive, it is not much more corrosive than regular gasoline. The chemical properties of E85 are not what causes the corrosion; it is the water in E85 that may cause rust and block up the fuel system. In fact, gasoline also contains water, which is why vehicles' fuel systems are built to resist and prevent corrosion.

Vehicles today (mid-1980s and later) are built to withstand and resist corrosion, which means E85 is very unlikely to harm or corrode a vehicle's fuel system in any way."

 

[rslifkin]

On any OBDII vehicle, E85 shouldn't kill the thing. Running it straight may cause a CEL for running too lean without bigger injectors and/or computer tuning. However, if you check just how lean it's actually running, you might still be OK, as E85 has a lot more leeway than E10 or E10 as far as how lean it can run without pinging or damage.

 

[exranger06]

A lot of Tahoes from that era actually WERE flex-fuel vehicles. There's a possibility that that truck is a flex-fuel and they didn't even know it. Even if it wasn't, I can't imagine most of the parts being THAT different anyway. I liked how they were saying the camshaft and crankshaft had almost no wear. That has nothing to do with what type of fuel was used. Keeping the oil changed regularly is all that's needed to accomplish that. And finally, did they get that truck brand new and ran E85 since day 1? They kept saying how it had 105k miles on it, but they didn't say how many of those miles were actually ran on E85.

 

[GMorg]

My 2005 Montana SV6 is not Flex-fuel. However, whenever E85 is >18% cheaper than E10, I fill-up with E85. I haven't had the opportunity to run any back to back E85 tanks. I also have not had the opportunity to run any E85 in the hot seasons - winters only. My major concern is with seal materials. I am not prepared to recommend my strategy to others, but I am willing to run a lot things through the tank. My attitude is that if the fluid is immiscible with gasoline and will burn, it can be run at some ratio.

 

[zyxelenator]

I would be more worried to add Kreen to fuel, it is very powerful chemical,but after running it in my engine,without destroying it, I would not hesitate to add it to gas tank. Point is, that most Fuel additives contain different types of alcohol.As we can see there is no destroyed fuel lines,injectors and so on. I wouldn't go more than 30% of E-85 in my tank,not because it "will eat seals" because,mechanically it needs bigger injectors and reprogrammed computer,in order to benefit from it.BTW, I think there is some little torque gain on lower end. It might be not noticeable on auto transmission, but it is on stick.