Duracell branded flashlights drain when unused

[y_p_w]

I might have bought a set (3 pack) at Costco over a decade ago, but still have one. I don’t believe they were made by Duracell, but they are licensed and packaged with Duracell AAAs. Lost one, another was damaged, but one still works. The only issue is that if I place a set of charged batteries (I use Eneloop) and store them, once I try turning it on it might flash a few times and go dark. Wasn’t sure if it was just me, but I found this:

https://www.classaction.org/blog/in...s-when-turned-off-class-action-lawsuit-claims​

Specifically, these flashlights are defective in that they continuously and rapidly drain the installed batteries when their LED lights are switched OFF, thus causing the batteries stored inside these flashlights to become fully depleted and dead, in less than 30 days, instead of the 10- year advertised storage lifespan for the Duracell batteries sold with these flashlights or the replacement batteries sold separately.”​

Before I found this, I would store them with the cap loosened. Seems that the mechanism is still draining while the circuit is completed. It’s some sort of active electronics and not a mechanical switch. But I’ve used lights like that which didn’t burn through battery charge that quickly.

 

[Gyro Gearloose]

I've noticed this to varying degrees with essentially every LED flashlight I've bought at the big box stores. Very frustrating. On the other hand the Streamlight safety rated flashlight I brought home from work when I retired will stay on standby until the batteries expire.

 

[mdtn952]

I've noticed this to varying degrees with essentially every LED flashlight I've bought at the big box stores. Very frustrating. On the other hand the Streamlight safety rated flashlight I brought home from work when I retired will stay on standby until the batteries expire.

I like Streamlight products...maybe not the most innovative but solid and customer service, if needed, is outstanding.

 

[Carmudgeon]

"A feature characteristic, not a bug."

Every device that has an electronic switch, which is common now, will have some form of parasitic current draw, and that includes a cheap flashlight.

The "10-year" storage lifespan probably contains some CYA language that stipulates not being installed inside a device, especially one that draws current to remain on standby because it has an e-switch.

Some flashlights with drivers that have a buggy driver can even drain a LSD Li-chemistry high capacity cell in a matter of weeks or months.

Makes no difference what the device may be, or the type or brand of cell, just a matter of physics.

Flashlight geeks know that for long-term storage with a cell inside, the tail cap should be loosened to break the circuit.

Cheap LED flashlights usually employ three AAA alkaline cells, which aren't particularly high capacity, in series to achieve the necessary forward voltage to drive the typical 3V high output LED emitter. It's cheap, and not a performance-oriented design in any sense of the world, and WYSIWYG.

The ambulance chasers may succeed in squeezing some sort of settlement out of Duracell, and force them to change their language and add even more CYA disclaimers, but it shouldn't be some sort of revelation that this can occur.

Hope the class members enjoy their $10 coupons off their next Duracell purchase.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Eneloops and other rechargeable batteries are not a good choice for LED flashlights since they only deliver 1.2v per cell.

You're better off just getting a rechargeable LED flashlight if you don't want to buy alkalines anymore.

 

[JohnnyG]

Rechargeable batteries will self discharge. It's not the flashlights fault.

 

[y_p_w]

"A feature characteristic, not a bug."

Every device that has an electronic switch, which is common now, will have some form of parasitic current draw, and that includes a cheap flashlight.

The "10-year" storage lifespan probably contains some CYA language that stipulates not being installed inside a device, especially one that draws current to remain on standby because it has an e-switch.

Some flashlights with drivers that have a buggy driver can even drain a LSD Li-chemistry high capacity cell in a matter of weeks or months.

Makes no difference what the device may be, or the type or brand of cell, just a matter of physics.

Flashlight geeks know that for long-term storage with a cell inside, the tail cap should be loosened to break the circuit.

Cheap LED flashlights usually employ three AAA alkaline cells, which aren't particularly high capacity, in series to achieve the necessary forward voltage to drive the typical 3V high output LED emitter. It's cheap, and not a performance-oriented design in any sense of the world, and WYSIWYG.

The ambulance chasers may succeed in squeezing some sort of settlement out of Duracell, and force them to change their language and add even more CYA disclaimers, but it shouldn't be some sort of revelation that this can occur.

Hope the class members enjoy their $10 coupons off their next Duracell purchase.

I'm pretty sure that I had a chance to be part of the settlement. The package was clearly labelled as made by a licensee using their trademark.

I have several single AA LED flashlights where it's a mechanical switch of some kind. If I have it on and loosen the cap, when I tighten it's on again. With the Duracell branded flashlight (or some others), when I do that it always resets to off when it's reconnected. I had some single AA lights with a flashing mode, but I'm not sure how that worked. But I could store those for a while and they were never dead after several weeks.

I think the electronic switches generally take care of things like flashing modes or low intensity. The Duracell branded ones had two solid modes but no flashing; it just cycles through off-high-off-low-off. I have several Cateye LED bike lights that use some sort of electronic switch for multiple modes. I'll hold down a button until it turns off. However, I've stashed them away for months at a time and they always work. One is lithium-ion and charged via USB micro-B. I thought maybe it would stop functioning, but it's still working after over a decade including times when I forgot about it.

I'm guessing the issue was that it must have been some really high parasitic draw in the switching mechanism. Several of the articles on it state that the manufacturer advertised low parasitic draw in future versions.

 

[y_p_w]

Eneloops and other rechargeable batteries are not a good choice for LED flashlights since they only deliver 1.2v per cell.

You're better off just getting a rechargeable LED flashlight if you don't want to buy alkalines anymore.

They work well enough for me since I'm not really looking for maximum output. I mostly want to be able to get around the house without leaving all the lights on, or seeing a keyhole. I've seen a lot of these manufacturers specify different outputs and runtime for NiMH. Alkalines might produce really high output for a short period, but then kind of hang on at low output until they can no longer drive a flashlight.

I do have a Maglite LED light that turns on by twisting the lens loose. I don't know if Mag has ever gone to any kind of electronic switch. The twist mechanism has always been rather dependable, although there was always the chance of losing the lens.

 

[dubber09]

Eneloops and other rechargeable batteries are not a good choice for LED flashlights since they only deliver 1.2v per cell.

You're better off just getting a rechargeable LED flashlight if you don't want to buy alkalines anymore.

Not entirely correct. I run a Fenix LED flashlight as EDC, it uses one AA battery and the battery lasts at least couple months with light use. Running LADDA rechargeable batteries having a spare charged one with me all the time. What is interesting about these LADDA the flashlight retains full or near full brightness till batt is at about 5% and then flashlight turns off. With single use batts brightness gradually goes down, with LADDA it's bright till the end.

 

[y_p_w]

Not entirely correct. I run a Fenix LED flashlight as EDC, it uses one AA battery and the battery lasts at least couple months with light use. Running LADDA rechargeable batteries having a spare charged one with me all the time. What is interesting about these LADDA the flashlight retains full or near full brightness till batt is at about 5% and then flashlight turns off. With single use batts brightness gradually goes down, with LADDA it's bright till the end.

NiMH has a very different voltage/internal resistance discharge curve than alkaline. Probably not as big a difference when there's maybe a 16 hour run time, but it can make a lot of difference if it's 2 hours at relatively high current.

Often NiMH can produce more useful run time because the voltage doesn't drop as quickly as an alkaline does within most of its useful capacity.

 

[dubber09]

I just stated my observations and wanna say I'm happy with Fenix and ladda batteries. Batteries never leak, dropped flashlight on cement many times, once drove over it, working as it should.

 

[y_p_w]

I just stated my observations and wanna say I'm happy with Fenix and ladda batteries. Batteries never leak, dropped flashlight on cement many times, once drove over it, working as it should.

If it’s anything labeled as made in Japan in the past 15 years, it’s pretty much only going to be made by FDK-Fujitsu at the factory that they bought from Panasonic (after their purchase of Sanyo). LADDA have two types - high capacity or regular. For some reason the 2100 mAh LADDA are rated for 1000 cycles while the 2550 mAh LADDA are 500 cycles. But most of the latest 2100 mAh made by FDK are rated for 2000 cycles. I don’t think I’ll ever get to that point though.

I had no criticism about your observations. Just curious if typical discharge curves account for what you experienced.

 

[dubber09]

I didn't really care about curves and such, batteries work very well and I have a good charger where I can set charging current to make batteries last, 500 cycles is more than enough for me, even if I had to charge each battery every week it'd give me 500 weeks which is about 10 years and I charge them flashlight batteries every second month or so.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I'm pretty sure that I had a chance to be part of the settlement. The package was clearly labelled as made by a licensee using their trademark.

I have several single AA LED flashlights where it's a mechanical switch of some kind. If I have it on and loosen the cap, when I tighten it's on again. With the Duracell branded flashlight (or some others), when I do that it always resets to off when it's reconnected. I had some single AA lights with a flashing mode, but I'm not sure how that worked. But I could store those for a while and they were never dead after several weeks.

I think the electronic switches generally take care of things like flashing modes or low intensity. The Duracell branded ones had two solid modes but no flashing; it just cycles through off-high-off-low-off. I have several Cateye LED bike lights that use some sort of electronic switch for multiple modes. I'll hold down a button until it turns off. However, I've stashed them away for months at a time and they always work. One is lithium-ion and charged via USB micro-B. I thought maybe it would stop functioning, but it's still working after over a decade including times when I forgot about it.

I'm guessing the issue was that it must have been some really high parasitic draw in the switching mechanism. Several of the articles on it state that the manufacturer advertised low parasitic draw in future versions.

It all depends on the design and execution of the driver. The lower the price, the higher the risk that it might have some abnormal level of parasitic draw, or some other quirky or buggy behavior.

IIRC, the Duracell units in question sold for ~$30 for the three-pack at the upper range, no?

The Chinese can make some decent, if not surprisingly pretty good, stuff for $10-15 retail, but that's buying direct, without the middleman costs associated with a name branded product in an American retail store.

A low-end zoomie like this, sold at Harbor Freight retailing at $14 masks the fact that lights like it are actually low enough in cost to use as shipping vessels for bare cell purchases, to exploit the less stringent shipping guidelines covering lithium cells inside a device.

Bare cells would otherwise be more difficult and costly to ship in their native form, so generic flashlights are employed as packaging containers.

Receiving a functional piece of packaging is a nice bonus, but they're basic quality lights. The Duracell lights are at a higher level, but still probably not far removed, so their behavior shouldn't be entirely unexpected.

 

[y_p_w]

It all depends on the design and execution of the driver. The lower the price, the higher the risk that it might have some abnormal level of parasitic draw, or some other quirky or buggy behavior.

IIRC, the Duracell units in question sold for ~$30 for the three-pack at the upper range, no?

The Chinese can make some decent, if not surprisingly pretty good, stuff for $10-15 retail, but that's buying direct, without the middleman costs associated with a name branded product in an American retail store.

A low-end zoomie like this, sold at Harbor Freight retailing at $14 masks the fact that lights like it are actually low enough in cost to use as shipping vessels for bare cell purchases, to exploit the less stringent shipping guidelines covering lithium cells inside a device.

Bare cells would otherwise be more difficult and costly to ship in their native form, so generic flashlights are employed as packaging containers.

Receiving a functional piece of packaging is a nice bonus, but they're basic quality lights. The Duracell lights are at a higher level, but still probably not far removed, so their behavior shouldn't be entirely unexpected.

I don't remember what I paid for them, although I'm thinking it was less than $20 for a 3 pack at Costco. I think my package had blue, silver, and black. They have a little caddy for 4 AAAs. But otherwise it looks big enough to contain 2 C cells.

This looks like the same model. It's actually pretty nice when it works, but the parasitic draw of the switching circuit is clearly way too high.

Oh - and it cycles off-high-low-off.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I don't remember what I paid for them, although I'm thinking it was less than $20 for a 3 pack at Costco. I think my package had blue, silver, and black. They have a little caddy for 4 AAAs. But otherwise it looks big enough to contain 2 C cells.

This looks like the same model. It's actually pretty nice when it works, but the parasitic draw of the switching circuit is clearly way too high.

Oh - and it cycles off-high-low-off.

Those look very similar to a pair of Home Depot house brand lights that I grabbed for $5 on clearance, about a decade ago, before the budget light scene took off.

The basic build quality is decent, but they won't last long before they begin to flicker, or otherwise start to betray their cheapness. But no worries if they get run over, or dropped into a pan of oil while working in the garage, where they live.

The lack of mode memory and a full-cycling requirement, especially through blinky modes, is another sign of a cheap driver.

 

[y_p_w]

I didn't really care about curves and such, batteries work very well and I have a good charger where I can set charging current to make batteries last, 500 cycles is more than enough for me, even if I had to charge each battery every week it'd give me 500 weeks which is about 10 years and I charge them flashlight batteries every second month or so.

My preference for chargers is the Panasonic BQ-CC17. A few years ago I didn’t get the set at Costco that had the version with a 1.0A USB-A outlet. But I got a couple of these sets at Costco in the blue AA and green AAA. I’d gotten the previous Sanyo version at Costco, although those had paired battery chargers. I got two sets of these which gave me two sets of four of the AAAs in each shade and 10 each of the AAs in each shade of blue:

The charger is nothing fancy, but it works really well and I have three of them. The one I got in 2022 is different. The lights are a different shade of green and light up immediately if there's a battery in the position. The previous version would light them up one at a time when powered on.

https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/charger-bq-cc17.html

I've done some odd things to these batteries. Once I left one in the washing machine. Other than the label looking kind of faded, the battery still works fine.

I remember when LADDA were on sale at Ikea and I got a bunch of those too. I just randomly cycle through singles since I have a variety of different single AA devices. Also an Ikea Stenkol charger. I don't think it's as good as the Panasonic, but I have it around just in case. The batteries seem to get hotter while charging, even though the charging rate is generally slower. The instructions said the rate varied depending on how many batteries are inserted.

There's some speculation that the LADDA are identical to similar capacity batteries made in the same factory. Maybe bin sorted (not sure how) or perhaps just something weird that Ikea does to derate them. But I'll never get through their useful life. I've got those Panasonic Eneloop for over a decade and they're still working well. I also have a few first generation Eneloop as well as Sony CycleEnergy that are clearly the same basic battery.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I've been looking for replacements for the original AAA cells in a Panny cordless phone system that are worn out. They old, and last just barely long enough on a call with significant hold time.

Last time I looked at IKEA's cells, there were Japanese, but it has been a while so I don't know if that's still the case.

The price of genuine (if true) Eneloop AAA cells from Amazon is just a bit higher, per cell in a multi-pack, but one won't know the whole story until they're delivered.

I also have the old Sanyo set, originally bought for a game console controllers, and not seen a lot of use, but too lazy to test their capacity.

 

[dubber09]

I got Miboxer C4 charger a few years back, each of 4 bays can be set for its own charging current or all at once if batteries are of same form factor and type. I can charge AAA, AA and a few other types and sizes at the same time.

 

[y_p_w]

The standard for longevity of NiMH batteries is supposed to be IEC 61951-2, which has a 2011. Erosion and an updated 2017 version. But the standard update has a deeper discharge requirement. But the end of life is considered to be when it has 60% of the original nominal capacity. I rarely get into any kind of deep discharge, so I’m thinking they might last decades as long as they don’t otherwise fail, like from a leak or a dropped battery.