Does M1 Turbo Diesel meet FCA EcoDiesel Spec?

[Jetronic]

I experienced less regens (about 1/3rd less) when switching from Castrol Edge Turbo Diesel FST 5w-40 to the total I'm using now.

I agree that oils influence soot production, but I think it has to do with the detergent package. Calcium based vs Magnesium based. 25%+ of the oil around the top compression ring consists of detergent. ZDDP is also present in very high concentration. Ashless dispersant is rather volatile and won't last long there, nor will the lighter ends of the base oil.

Do you know what was used in both the oils you tried?

 

[chrisri]

I have used Petronas Europe Urania 5w30 FE LS, an ACEA E6 type of oil. IIRC calcium based. I had a stash of 25 litres, now I'm using Valvoline Mst 5w40. Not much difference between, except Urania's higher starting TBN and SA level.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
In your opinion is M1 TDT safe for a modern diesel engines with DPF and EGR?

Yes, assuming that they're calling for that type of lubricant, and not for a C3 like was previously specified, or to which chrisi is referring. That's the general answer to that question. For most "truck diesels" in North America, any CJ-4 or CK-4 5w-40 is suitable.

To be more specific, though, for your case, in my view, M1 TDT would be functionally identical to a lube with the actual spec number, like Rotella T5 5w-40. If T6 5w-40 works, so would M1 TDT 5w-40. But, given that there has been a bit of waffling by FCA on the oil requirements, apparently brought about by actual concerns by FCA from warranty claims, if it were me, I'd stick to the specified lubricant (with the FCA approval) for the time being. This engine previously called for a C3 lubricant; FCA changed the spec, so they may have been seeing excessive warranty claims under the previous approved lubricant, so it's wise to follow their instructions right now while under warranty. At this point in the game, I'd be using the specified lube and documenting it.

And yes, that price and rebate are a heartbreak to have to pass up. Maybe you can find another application for it. Or, look at Canadian Walmart M1 TDT pricing, and pretend that's what you're avoiding.

chrisi: As you see above, Chrysler changed the spec last year. This was a C3 engine, if I recall correctly, and it got subsequently changed to a CJ-4 E7, E9 spec. In North America, it's pretty unlikely for someone to accidentally grab a C3 oil when looking for a CJ-4 or CK-4, given that C3 oils are not exactly commonplace, and usually in small, one litre bottles.

Maybe that's FCA's real concern, all us North American rednecks needing to buy European oil at $12 a litre in single litre containers for a Dodge truck raised holy heck at the dealerships. It's un-American!

For reference for Jetronic and chrisi, the E6 lubricants that make it to North America tend to be in 5w-30, also carry E7, E9, and have SA of 1.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Especially since a lot of European designed commercial diesels, the recommendation is simple CJ-4 and now CK-4 oil. Nothing special or unique. Only with the smaller stuff does the OEM's want to pile on the complexity of oil specification and act like their products are so unique and special. Could be that HD engines from Volvo and MAN, for instance, they do not feel the need to mess with folks like Ford and other small diesel OEM's feel the need to do. This stuff seems to be just a game that OEM's love to play with individuals, but they know they cannot play those same games with commercial users or risk some serious loss of market share.

 

[BCguy]

OK, so I've been reading all the various posts about oil for the 6.7 Powerstroke and I gotta admit that, at this point, I am totally confused. Selecting an oil used to be pretty straight forward - correct grade and spec and either syn or non-syn. Now not so much.

I have a 2015 SD with the 6.7 and have been running Mobil 1 TDT because I thought it met specs and was a decent oil for that engine. Now I am not sure.

Is it ok or not? If not, what 5w40 syn is ok? Thanks.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Especially since a lot of European designed commercial diesels, the recommendation is simple CJ-4 and now CK-4 oil. Nothing special or unique. Only with the smaller stuff does the OEM's want to pile on the complexity of oil specification and act like their products are so unique and special. Could be that HD engines from Volvo and MAN, for instance, they do not feel the need to mess with folks like Ford and other small diesel OEM's feel the need to do.

It's notable, too, that those, such as the ones you've mentioned, base their specs on the ACEA E sequences, which are based upon CJ-4/CK-4, or on the CJ-4/CK-4 stuff in the first place.

Of course, that's been helped along by the fact that the API has gotten its act together in the past number of years with respect to diesel specifications, which, at one point, were seriously lagging. Nonetheless, no one should need to go out there and buy 10 litres of obscure oil at an insane price for a Ram.

BCguy: Ford is wadded up right now, too, wanting people to use either a CJ-4 oil, or something with their proprietary spec if it's CK-4, and are retconning this gibberish all the way back to the 7.3 L engines. And, I use the term retconning, because it applies, trying to change the past in a comic book or a soap opera.

There are other threads here that cover it, and as always, particularly if there is some sort of issue, it might be best to choose an approved lube. As TiredTrucker points out, they mess with the individuals, not with the big commercial users. I know T6 5w-40 meets the old Ford E spec, but there's a list and search engine link in one of the threads here.

Edit: Found it, check here for Ford's page.

 

[BCguy]

Saw the list. Thanks. Strange that not even the Motorcraft 5w40 is on the approved list. I think I'm gonna go back to the Motorcraft 10w30 that it came with for the next oil change. Should be just fine for my use (no heavy towing) and it's on the 'approved' list.

 

[Garak]

Their list is a bit messy right now, to say the least. I'm not exactly sure what Mobil HDEO 15w-40 is, considering they offer at least two of those options, and the Castrol listing is more problematic, given they have something like four 15w-40 options up here. They all have the approval? One or two? Three?

 

[SavagePatch]

Received my order of twelve 1 gallon jugs of M1 TDT today. I thought that I'd be receiving old inventory stock because of the $15/gallon sale price but all of the jugs I received were the new CK-4 that's both E7 and E9 rated with a date code of January 10, 2017.

New:


Old:

 

[SavagePatch]

 

[Garak]

Well, that worked out okay then. It should have been E7, E9 in the first place.

 

[SavagePatch]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
I'd probably use oil that states MS-10902 as a spec.


Does anybody know what exactly this material standard is? I can't find anything on it other than that Cummins CES 20081 is the same standard.

 

[Garak]

Really, that's all I've been able to find, too. It certainly makes sense. Having a Chrysler specification is needlessly problematic, though.

 

[SavagePatch]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Really, that's all I've been able to find, too. It certainly makes sense. Having a Chrysler specification is needlessly problematic, though.


Trying to research it I found it funny how CAT specs are easily dug up and how CAT doesn't charge for or police their specs. It's up to the manufacturer to decide for themselves if they meet the CAT specs.

BUT then Chrysler's specifications on their specs are unattainable and most likely charge a fee to meet their specs.

Because almost every HDEO lists CAT specs (assuming because there's no fee).

I'm going to try to not worry so much about the Chrysler spec since I only run 5k miles a a year and don't do extended drain intervals.

@Garak funny how Delvac ESP is an affordable option in Canada but in the states I can't find it for under $45/g.

 

[Garak]

Part of the problem here is that TDT is a retail only product, and up here, retail is problematic, to say the least, when it comes to oil pricing. I don't know why these places even stock it. When Walmart Canada or Canadian Tire has an M1 sale, they don't touch the price on TDT. I don't know how they move a single jug at their pricing.