Do you think warranty will be voided if...

[Ken2]

Quote:
...high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual, but had used oil analysis ...
Why bother? The cost of the analysis almost offsets the cost of the scheduled oil change you'll miss. Plus the warranty uncertainty. Stick to the schedule to protect your warranty. Yes, good analysis reports will protect you, but you may have a fight on your hands. Your vehicle could be idle for months while they decide who'll pay for the work. Why bother?

 

[hawaiianxj]

Im so lost, why would u mention extended oics if your that worried, i have a 2011 f250 and i can reset my olm as easy as pressing reset on my steering wheel, if my engine gernaded right now i would just tell the dealer i have no idea ;-)

if you want ex oics go for it, if you gernade your engine, give them no info on your ex oics,just looked confused lol

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^And you do know that the PCM will dutifully log every reset of the olm?

 

[fdcg27]

I manufactured the car.
I gave you the warranty and I state the terms.
I give you the maintenance schedule and I have nothing in either the OM nor the maintenance schedule saying anything about extending drains using UOAs.
You extend UOAs based upon your UOAs.
Your engine suffers some horrible failure.
I can deny warranty coverage based upon your having failed to follow the maintenance schedule I set forth to maintain warranty coverage.
Case closed.
Why risk it, for the small cost of doing a few extra oil chnages?
Now, my feeling is that if anything bad is going to happen to the engine as a result of manufacturing defects, it will likely show up early in the engine's life, so out of warranty, you risk nothing by using UOAs to establish the safe life of any given oil in your engine as you use it.

 

[Solarent]

So it would appear that the general consensus is that when still under warranty, follow the book. Even if you believe in using high quality oils and checking your oil with UOA.

Which means if you buy a new car that calls for a 5000 mile OCI, your use of any synthetic oils during the warranty period that can "easily go 10k" (as we have heard over and over again from certain members) that probably is overkill and could be called a waste of money...

Interesting... thanks again for the input. I look forward to hearing more on the subject.

(For the record I will continue to use high quality oils on my vehicles no matter how old or new they are.)

 

[Merkava_4]

Quote:
If I were to use a high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual


Originally Posted By: Solarent

My wife drives a 2006 BMW 325i which uses an OLM that typically recommends 24 000 km oil changes (roughly 15000 miles)


So you're saying you want to switch to synthetic and stretch the OCI out to 30,000 miles ?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So it would appear that the general consensus is that when still under warranty, follow the book. Even if you believe in using high quality oils and checking your oil with UOA.


That's the way to look at it.

Today many manufacturers will look for ANY loop hole possible to get out of expensive warranty repairs, this is why you want to follow the directions they printed in the owner's manual. So when there is ANY issues you are COMPLETELY covered, no exceptions.

When the warranty expires within reason I would do what you like as long as it doesn't deviate too far from the manufacturers recommendations.

 

[Solarent]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
So you're saying you want to switch to synthetic and stretch the OCI out to 30,000 miles ?

no, we already use GC synthetic in that car. And I am quite happy with the OCI.

My original post was setting up a hypothetical situation where a 5000-7000 mile OCI was stretched out to 10k or 15k based on the UOA results. I really was interested in what seems to be conflicting views on extended oil drains vs new vehicle warranties.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So one of the common questions we get here on BITOG is about oil change intervals during the warranty period on newer vehicles. This got me thinking:

If I were to use a high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual, but had used oil analysis results to justify the extended OCI would a manufacturer be within their rights to void my warranty? Or would my UOA cover it? Do you think that UOA would need to be run with every OC or could I get away with doing it for the first 3-5 changes to establish a trend and then say once a year after that?

I am personally of the opinion that in this hypothetical situation the UOA would help me protect my warranty; but would love to hear the consensus from the BITOG community.


Here is my take on this based on using synthetic for years in vehicles under warranty as well as working dealer parts and service and being on the other side of the counter.

I. UOA's:
No, actually a UOA will not help you protect your warranty if you exceed the mfg's allowed for OCI. They have no way of knowing the oil you had tested was really out of your vehicle is the main issue with that. You could grab oil out of anything and have it tested saying it is out of your vehicle but how can it be proved? It can't and thus they won't accept it.

Possibly( still doubt it )if all of your OC's were done at a dealer using your parts but they are the ones who pulled the sample it might be more credible to the car mfg. Even in that scenario though unless the dealer sends the oil out to be tested for you the car mfg will still say you used other oil besides what the dealer pulled from the vehicle. Just no way to verify the reports are really on the oil from your vehicle will be their stance and actually that is a reasonable argument on their part IMO.

Any UOA a mfg relies on will be one where you already have a problem and THEY have oil pulled at a dealer for testing at a facility of their choosing. That is the only UOA the car mfg will give any credit to IMO and based on my experience.

II. Synthetic Oil & Extended OCI's:
Read your owner's manual. "Most" car mfg's have a clause/section in the OM where they tell you that synthetic may be used but you may not exceed the max allowed for time/mileage OCI listed. They spell it right out that even though you are using synthetic to still stay with the called for OCI. If they were going to allow for a longer OCI if using synthetic they would provide a section on that and tell you how much longer you can go.

Here is an example out of my 2011 Jeep's OM. It is basically what has been in my OM's for the last 1/2 dozen or so new vehicles...

Quote:

2011 Jeep Patriot
Owner's Manual
Page 407

Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed.


Been the same basic statement as said over the last bunch of new vehicles and they ranged from GM to Dodge to Jeep to Toyota.

"IF" you have any concerns about your warranty and extending the OCI don't do it. Just go by what is in the OM. As others told you even if you were right it still falls on you to fight it and it just isn't worth it. Run the synthetic to the max allowed for OCI in the OM and do what you want when warranty is over.

EDIT - it should be noted that I am talking about US warranty and not Canadian warranty which would apply to you. I don't believe Canada has the same laws pertaining to this stuff as we do here.

 

[hounddog]

Darn. What is the maximum OCI the manufacture gives of the vehicle being discussed?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So it would appear that the general consensus is that when still under warranty, follow the book. Even if you believe in using high quality oils and checking your oil with UOA.


There are a couple situations that may be different. I believe XOM warrants M1 EP for extended drains on newer vehicles. Amsoil may also do the same, at least under certain circumstances. Pablo will have to explain that to us.

So, if it were an extended drain oil that were advertised as such and warranted as such, that might put my mind more at ease. However, that still brings another party into any potential warranty dispute.

The other concern with running a UOA for purposes of extending an OCI under warranty is how one would interpret the UOA. Would the manufacturer pick apart things in the UOA and try to blame the oil, and thereby the oil company? Or would they point to "wear metals" and say that you shouldn't have gone so long or you should have brought this to our attention earlier? Or, they claim that the oil has sheared (even if it's common for Vehicle X) and state that the oil should have been condemned earlier.

The UOA may provide one with some ammunition in a claim, but one had better be sure it doesn't provide the manufacturer with ammunition. That's especially true if one cannot be rock solid in one's confidence in the numbers.

 

[demarpaint]

This topic comes up again and again, and ends up pretty much the same.Lets look at it this way: A person decides not to follow the mfg. recommendations and extends the OCI, beyond the mfg. limits. Then he has a problem and expects the mfg. to pay because the oil bottle says he can extend the drain, and a UOA said the oil was still good. Good luck! I’d rather have the mfg. honor his warranty because I complied, than go after an oil company and watch them try and wiggle out of repairing the engine, if the oil was at fault. Forget going after the lab that said the oil was good, that in and of itself it a joke! The risk far outweighs the reward IMO. Follow the OM use an approved oil, then when the warranty runs out do whatever you want.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Solarent
So one of the common questions we get here on BITOG is about oil change intervals during the warranty period on newer vehicles. This got me thinking:

If I were to use a high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual, but had used oil analysis results to justify the extended OCI would a manufacturer be within their rights to void my warranty? Or would my UOA cover it? Do you think that UOA would need to be run with every OC or could I get away with doing it for the first 3-5 changes to establish a trend and then say once a year after that?

I am personally of the opinion that in this hypothetical situation the UOA would help me protect my warranty; but would love to hear the consensus from the BITOG community.


If they could prove it was a lubrication failure, then yes they probably could win that fight. Question is, can they prove it?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This topic comes up again and again, and ends up pretty much the same.Lets look at it this way: A person decides not to follow the mfg. recommendations and extends the OCI, beyond the mfg. limits. Then he has a problem and expects the mfg. to pay because the oil bottle says he can extend the drain, and a UOA said the oil was still good. Good luck! I’d rather have the mfg. honor his warranty because I complied, than go after an oil company and watch them try and wiggle out of repairing the engine, if the oil was at fault. Forget going after the lab that said the oil was good, that in and of itself it a joke! The risk far outweighs the reward IMO. Follow the OM use an approved oil, then when the warranty runs out do whatever you want.


I agree.

 

[hawaiianxj]

Wow you guys are fighting it tooth and nail!.
i still say reset your olm every rec. Oic then play ypur cards with ex oics if ur motor bombs look like a dear in headlights and plead the 5th

 

[jimmy87]

When it comes to warranty can a manufacture/dealer deny you warranty work due to changing the oil before the om suggests?

 

[Garak]

All the manuals I've read say to change BEFORE so many miles, BEFORE so many months, or BEFORE the OLM hits zero. So, I don't think it would be a problem.

 

[badnews]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I manufactured the car.
I gave you the warranty and I state the terms.
I give you the maintenance schedule and I have nothing in either the OM nor the maintenance schedule saying anything about extending drains using UOAs.
You extend UOAs based upon your UOAs.
Your engine suffers some horrible failure.
]I can deny warranty coverage based upon your having failed to follow the maintenance schedule I set forth to maintain warranty coverage.
Case closed.
Why risk it, for the small cost of doing a few extra oil chnages?
Now, my feeling is that if anything bad is going to happen to the engine as a result of manufacturing defects, it will likely show up early in the engine's life, so out of warranty, you risk nothing by using UOAs to establish the safe life of any given oil in your engine as you use it.


LOL
No you can't pesky Federal law called Moss-Ferguson says you have to show the oil was at fault to deny warranty coverage

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I manufactured the car.
I gave you the warranty and I state the terms.
I give you.......


False logic. I paid for the car. I paid for the warranty.

I don't let manufacturers control my life. And the law sides with the consumer.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I manufactured the car.
I gave you the warranty and I state the terms.
I give you.......


False logic. I paid for the car. I paid for the warranty.

I don't let manufacturers control my life. And the law sides with the consumer.


False logic, I don't think so, but then again if I was selling Amsoil I might.

Why hassle it? The customer will most likely have to pay for a lawyer to get the law to side for him. Wouldn't it just be easier to follow the mfg recommendations during the warranty period? They can even use OE or XL for that if they're hooked on Amsoil.