Do CEO's deserve their huge Paychecks?
- Thread starter ZZman
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Yeah every should just quit trying. We are almost there comrades as we have just finished off #8.
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1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Quote:
1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Not on your life!
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Wall Street and Coporate America are so detached from real life!
You're living in the wrong country, Comrade ZZman.
This is the land of the "Free to be Greedy" isn't it?
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Not on your life!
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Wall Street and Coporate America are so detached from real life!
You're living in the wrong country, Comrade ZZman.
This is the land of the "Free to be Greedy" isn't it?
Dude - everyone who is highly compensated is NOT greedy. Yes in YOUR opinion they are greedy, but not a fact or the truth...simply your opinion.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
True Pablo. Reasonable compensation is not.
What would you consider to be the "greed" line?
Do you have one?
What is a "greed line"?
Some magic number?
I think what you are not seeing is that a person can make $10 and be greedy. Too me, greed is a sin, a behavior. It has nothing to do with ones income. You really seem to think the two are linked. I assure you. They are not. Americans, contrary to some pop opinion are very generous people. Some, but not all, people who have high incomes are not greedy at all.
Also, I think you confuse people who enjoying the finer things in life with greedy people. Some items I buy are top of the line - does this make me greedy in your book? Do I cross your line?
It's just weird and unjustified what you and others are trying to do. What is your end game?
True Pablo. Reasonable compensation is not.
What would you consider to be the "greed" line?
Do you have one?
What is a "greed line"?
Some magic number?
I think what you are not seeing is that a person can make $10 and be greedy. Too me, greed is a sin, a behavior. It has nothing to do with ones income. You really seem to think the two are linked. I assure you. They are not. Americans, contrary to some pop opinion are very generous people. Some, but not all, people who have high incomes are not greedy at all.
Also, I think you confuse people who enjoying the finer things in life with greedy people. Some items I buy are top of the line - does this make me greedy in your book? Do I cross your line?
It's just weird and unjustified what you and others are trying to do. What is your end game?
Send them your resume if you think you can do the job.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: ZZman
True Pablo. Reasonable compensation is not.
What would you consider to be the "greed" line?
Do you have one?
What is a "greed line"?
Some magic number?
I think what you are not seeing is that a person can make $10 and be greedy. Too me, greed is a sin, a behavior. It has nothing to do with ones income. You really seem to think the two are linked. I assure you. They are not. Americans, contrary to some pop opinion are very generous people. Some, but not all, people who have high incomes are not greedy at all.
Also, I think you confuse people who enjoying the finer things in life with greedy people. Some items I buy are top of the line - does this make me greedy in your book? Do I cross your line?
It's just weird and unjustified what you and others are trying to do. What is your end game?
To bring examples of past employers which are markedly different... At one place, the CEO was the 6-th highest earner. At another place, the factor of the lowest and highest wages was around 8.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
True Pablo. Reasonable compensation is not.
What would you consider to be the "greed" line?
Do you have one?
What is a "greed line"?
Some magic number?
I think what you are not seeing is that a person can make $10 and be greedy. Too me, greed is a sin, a behavior. It has nothing to do with ones income. You really seem to think the two are linked. I assure you. They are not. Americans, contrary to some pop opinion are very generous people. Some, but not all, people who have high incomes are not greedy at all.
Also, I think you confuse people who enjoying the finer things in life with greedy people. Some items I buy are top of the line - does this make me greedy in your book? Do I cross your line?
It's just weird and unjustified what you and others are trying to do. What is your end game?
To bring examples of past employers which are markedly different... At one place, the CEO was the 6-th highest earner. At another place, the factor of the lowest and highest wages was around 8.
Pablo: So you are saying you don't have an idea what greedy might be for income?
I would be curious if any of these high paid CEO's give alot to charities or are philanthropists.
You are right Pablo. You can also be greedy for power, status and money.
So you like some finer things in life. No problem, it is your money to spend. But i bet you don't buy $ 10,000 bottles of booze and $ 5,000 pair of shoes etc...I bet your spending would be considered pretty normal to most people.
I am not complaining about high incomes. I am talking about ridiculous/outrageous incomes.
The end game would be to stop destroying the middle class and poor to feed the love of money of the rich and the overpaid CEO's.
With what they paid some of these guys they could have given 100's of workers good paying jobs and benefits. They could have sent employees to college to better themselves.
The benefits of the many should have more value than the benefit of the one.
I would be curious if any of these high paid CEO's give alot to charities or are philanthropists.
You are right Pablo. You can also be greedy for power, status and money.
So you like some finer things in life. No problem, it is your money to spend. But i bet you don't buy $ 10,000 bottles of booze and $ 5,000 pair of shoes etc...I bet your spending would be considered pretty normal to most people.
I am not complaining about high incomes. I am talking about ridiculous/outrageous incomes.
The end game would be to stop destroying the middle class and poor to feed the love of money of the rich and the overpaid CEO's.
With what they paid some of these guys they could have given 100's of workers good paying jobs and benefits. They could have sent employees to college to better themselves.
The benefits of the many should have more value than the benefit of the one.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
To bring examples of past employers which are markedly different... At one place, the CEO was the 6-th highest earner. At another place, the factor of the lowest and highest wages was around 8.
This is reasonable....
To bring examples of past employers which are markedly different... At one place, the CEO was the 6-th highest earner. At another place, the factor of the lowest and highest wages was around 8.
This is reasonable....
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Send them your resume if you think you can do the job.
Are you really that naive?
Could you do the job? It's the same thing I told someone complaining about the Yankees short stop Derek Jeter's salary. Go try out for the job. The fact is people can't do it. Very very few people can. That's the reason they earn the big bucks.
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Send them your resume if you think you can do the job.
Are you really that naive?
Could you do the job? It's the same thing I told someone complaining about the Yankees short stop Derek Jeter's salary. Go try out for the job. The fact is people can't do it. Very very few people can. That's the reason they earn the big bucks.
Who knows r125? I could try it. Maybe I would.
I did not go to college for a business degree for that type of work.
But I bet there are 1,000's who did that could do as well or better.
But there are dozens, 100's, 1,000's of workers who do the grunt work to help run the company. The CEO does not do it alone like Superman. He steers it.
I did not go to college for a business degree for that type of work.
But I bet there are 1,000's who did that could do as well or better.
But there are dozens, 100's, 1,000's of workers who do the grunt work to help run the company. The CEO does not do it alone like Superman. He steers it.
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Without going through a lot of this thread, yes, the board of directors of many companies are in bed with the management and this is why there is over compensation.
That being said, can the government do something about it? Yes. Many state run and municipal pension funds own large blocks of shares in these corporations. If these state government officials were more active in their concern about executive compensation in these companies they would have some clout.
If these companies make campaign contributions (quid pro quo), you can guess what is done.
This is why I love Carl Icahn. He buys shares, gets a board seat then asks tough questions. He's high profile and truly represents shareholders.
That being said, can the government do something about it? Yes. Many state run and municipal pension funds own large blocks of shares in these corporations. If these state government officials were more active in their concern about executive compensation in these companies they would have some clout.
If these companies make campaign contributions (quid pro quo), you can guess what is done.
This is why I love Carl Icahn. He buys shares, gets a board seat then asks tough questions. He's high profile and truly represents shareholders.
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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Send them your resume if you think you can do the job.
Are you really that naive?
Could you do the job? It's the same thing I told someone complaining about the Yankees short stop Derek Jeter's salary. Go try out for the job. The fact is people can't do it. Very very few people can. That's the reason they earn the big bucks.
My comment was about the 'resume' part. People of that stature are hired because they belong to certain circles, informally called "buddy networks" or "good old boy clubs". Talent or skill are desirable but not necessary.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Send them your resume if you think you can do the job.
Are you really that naive?
Could you do the job? It's the same thing I told someone complaining about the Yankees short stop Derek Jeter's salary. Go try out for the job. The fact is people can't do it. Very very few people can. That's the reason they earn the big bucks.
My comment was about the 'resume' part. People of that stature are hired because they belong to certain circles, informally called "buddy networks" or "good old boy clubs". Talent or skill are desirable but not necessary.
I see it as, what does a CEO or executives actually produce? Nothing physically, and for the most part a few vague ideas and policies that someone else has to figure out how to implement. Executive pay is mostly dead money in terms of a companys day to day bottom line.
I think the government could help, not by regulating executive pay, but by making their policies and regulations more friendly for small businesses. For example, the FDA's rules on butchering facilities totally favors huge expensive facilities. Which results in legions of minimum wage workers and a bunch of executives getting rich off of their labour. If the regulations were setup to support small facilities, the pay disparity stays lower, the money stays local, and most employers will pay their neighbors a reasonable wage.
But right now "Wall Street" is to big to fail even though its mostly unneccessary, they just have the money to lobby washington to keep their scheme going... After all, balancing up the regulations could shut down a 2000 person meat processing facility... But having 100 small plants would result in far more money in the local economy, and a much stronger middle class.
I think the government could help, not by regulating executive pay, but by making their policies and regulations more friendly for small businesses. For example, the FDA's rules on butchering facilities totally favors huge expensive facilities. Which results in legions of minimum wage workers and a bunch of executives getting rich off of their labour. If the regulations were setup to support small facilities, the pay disparity stays lower, the money stays local, and most employers will pay their neighbors a reasonable wage.
But right now "Wall Street" is to big to fail even though its mostly unneccessary, they just have the money to lobby washington to keep their scheme going... After all, balancing up the regulations could shut down a 2000 person meat processing facility... But having 100 small plants would result in far more money in the local economy, and a much stronger middle class.
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
This is why I love Carl Icahn. He buys shares, gets a board seat then asks tough questions. He's high profile and truly represents shareholders.
Widely hated by executives so he must be doing something right. Right?
In other circles he is known as a vulture.
This is why I love Carl Icahn. He buys shares, gets a board seat then asks tough questions. He's high profile and truly represents shareholders.
Widely hated by executives so he must be doing something right. Right?
In other circles he is known as a vulture.
So a CEO earns $20 million. Or say Derek Jetter earns $10 million.
They never see over 50% of that money. Who gets it? Federal,state local governments in all sorts of taxes.
They never see over 50% of that money. Who gets it? Federal,state local governments in all sorts of taxes.
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
So a CEO earns $20 million. Or say Derek Jetter earns $10 million.
They never see over 50% of that money. Who gets it? Federal,state local governments in all sorts of taxes.
Why do you think the capital gains tax is capped at 15%? If you dissect the executive compensation, most of the wealth is not in a form of wages but other methods like stock options.
So a CEO earns $20 million. Or say Derek Jetter earns $10 million.
They never see over 50% of that money. Who gets it? Federal,state local governments in all sorts of taxes.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: Diesel_Clatter
I believe every person complaining here, if offered the CEO's salary, would suddenly come to the conclusion that the pay is justified.
I have to disagree. I am not driven by greed as are many others. We chose jobs for what they were not how much money we could make. I could go other places doing the same job and make more money but chose not to.
If anything I would give much of it back for use somewhere else like maybe college assistance for employees or something.
Sadly, I don't have the means to test your resolve in this matter.
It is very easy to be charitable with imaginary money. I imagine there are plenty of folks who make minimum wage who would say your hourly rate is excessive and that you should be currently donating half of it and maybe one of your cars to a worthy cause such as their pocketbooks and needs for transportation.
Another general rule is that everybody needs whatever salary they are making.
Maybe I should be saying almost everybody but I do believe true exceptions are rare.
Originally Posted By: Diesel_Clatter
I believe every person complaining here, if offered the CEO's salary, would suddenly come to the conclusion that the pay is justified.
I have to disagree. I am not driven by greed as are many others. We chose jobs for what they were not how much money we could make. I could go other places doing the same job and make more money but chose not to.
If anything I would give much of it back for use somewhere else like maybe college assistance for employees or something.
Sadly, I don't have the means to test your resolve in this matter.
It is very easy to be charitable with imaginary money. I imagine there are plenty of folks who make minimum wage who would say your hourly rate is excessive and that you should be currently donating half of it and maybe one of your cars to a worthy cause such as their pocketbooks and needs for transportation.
Another general rule is that everybody needs whatever salary they are making.
Maybe I should be saying almost everybody but I do believe true exceptions are rare.
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