Disturbing trends in education ...

[ecotourist]

Me too--I graduated from a small class of 400. Just to add color, 7 of our top students went to Williams College. Then, and now, I think that's disproportionate from such a small class.

I had no need to take the SATs more than 1X, thanks to my public school education.

At any rate, I went to college for engineering. When I got there frosh year, I met a ton of kids from Brooklyn Tech, some from Bronx Science. I got a real lesson in what happens when kids come from an elite public HS and are hard workers. My first exam I scored a 29/100, which was good for a C. Suddenly, the kid from the class of 400 got introduced to a real world pecking order....

My high school graduating class was +/- 20. From that group there is/are: 1 nurse, 1 physician, 1 teacher, 2 engineers, 2 engineering technologists, 1 accountant, 1 actuary, 2 farm wives, 1 clerk, 1 manager at a major utility - and I've lost touch with the rest. Not too bad for a small town school.

I only failed one exam in my life. Got 25% on a geology "true or false, wrong from right" exam. For anyone who has never taken one I can assure you they are the devil's own invention. That was a warm up for the final exam and I had already finished studying. I concluded I had used a faulty strategy, didn't open the book again, answered only those questions I absolutely knew were true or false on the final exam, and scored an A.

 

[PimTac]

Back in the day when parents were more involved in their kid’s education and upbringing there was more interaction between parents and the kids. From helping out on projects or just watching Dad work on the car helped to tie together what you had learned in school. It’s not how much you learn in class from a book but it’s how you apply that education in the real world.

Today most kids bury themselves in their rooms with a device and miss out on that experience.

There is also the experience of enjoying the reward after a days work. Whether it was helping stack firewood or yard work or whatever the task for a neighbor or relative, they would treat you to snacks and beverages or even a home cooked meal for your efforts. I know someone with a small hay field that used to call out to the high schoolers to help put it away. Afterwards they were treated to a big meal with grilled chicken and all the sides. As of around ten years ago he stopped doing it. Nobody will help anymore.

 

[Rmay635703]

[QUOTE="I I literally have no idea what you're talking about.
[/QUOTE]
Where my mom works she and 3 other “aids” work with 1 teacher, she is shifted around to various other teachers over the year and works no more than 30 hours a week.

Library, lunch, study hall, recess, certain coaches, ED, EIP, one on ones bus all are part time except from paid insurance, paid leave, unemployment (state law bans .gov part time school from unemployment) and their pay rate is generally rather low though lifers like my mom may get a bonus for enough hours worked.

My mom is a former teacher and is moonlighting because she likes kids, definitely not a job you would work to pay for a house and family.

And most schools have a rather large amount of “support staff “ that don’t match up to the pay listed here, in many cases there are just as many support staff in teaching roles as there are full time teachers.

This varies district to district but is definitely a thing

 

[Number_35]

I only failed one exam in my life. Got 25% on a geology "true or false, wrong from right" exam. For anyone who has never taken one I can assure you they are the devil's own invention. That was a warm up for the final exam and I had already finished studying. I concluded I had used a faulty strategy, didn't open the book again, answered only those questions I absolutely knew were true or false on the final exam, and scored an A.

My Grade 5 teacher administered a T/F test and subtracted the wrong from the right, and I think that method of scoring resulted in most of us getting lower marks than we were used to.

I understand the rationale; someone knowing absolutely nothing about the subject matter would typically squeak through with a 50%. Perhaps subtracting 0.5 of the wrong from the right would have been more realistic.

A funny thing sticks from that test. The subject matter was our solar system, and probably astronomy and the universe in general.

One of the questions was:
Most stars are suns. T or F?

My reasoning, and that of many of my classmates, was that all stars (in an astronomical sense) are suns, and therefore any, and most, would also have to be, by definition. So I circled T.

He marked all of us who had selected T as wrong. He was thinking that "most" suns implied that some suns were not stars.

I didn't know the terms for Boolean algebra or Venn diagrams back then, but tried in vain to explain that if all members of a group fit into a certain category, then certainly any subset of that group did too.

He was otherwise an excellent teacher. I hope he's still living and doing well.

 

[SC Maintenance]

My wife sends home a weekly newsletter of events, hw, etc. and students come in unprepared, dressed in slippers, test not signed etc…In this instance you can’t blame a 1st grader for this.

No disrespect to the OP, (my wife is a teacher) - but we as parents should not allow homework in grade 1. I know why its assigned - so little Suzy or Johnny can progress in the state's standardized test. The mistake I made with my kids education is I should have spent less time on grade 1 homework and more time with them at the beach. The only homework in grade 1 should be collect some different leaves from the yard for tomorrows science class.

Add this to the list of reasons kids are burnt out by high school.

 

[John105]

Sounds like a great high school.

Clearly, those kids did well in High School. Williams is…well…the best!

The best small liberal arts school in the country. I might be biased in my opinion on that score, but college rankings agree with me...

For those of you unfamiliar: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges

For over forty years of those rankings, Williams has been in the no.1 spot, much to the dismay of arch-rival, Amherst...

My dad sold his own software in the late 80s and I was trying to figure out if the schools he was selling to were any good. I thought that if they were, then he would be successful (he tried for 10 years then went back to working in IT). Middlebury, ok not bad. Then once he said he has to go down to Swarthmore again. Me: “Where’s that?” (Never been to Phila before)

Today it’s near where I live, as is PENN, the two best schools nearby.

edit: just thought of this. My son's 3rd grade put on a music program for the parents. The music teacher has a PhD. This is in preparation for if they formally learn an instrument in the 4th grade. Seems like anything else, for kids and parents and teachers to do something outside of school hours, they want to do it and it's a great thing.

They introduced a kid who's in 12th and graduated from this elementary.

HERE WE GO AGAIN BACK TO THE ORIGINAL THEME OF MINE: The kid was wearing a Williams t shirt!!!

I remember feeling glad. One, I know that is a top school. Two, it is reflective of my son's elementary and our public school...at least what's possible.

 

[Hall]

No and I can only guess based on your response that I’ve become a victim of the media to think otherwise

No offense, but is your primary source of news a channel that starts with an "F" ?

There are lunatics out there fueling this fire that our kids are being taught or conditioned to be gay or that if a boy wants to be a girl, the school system and teachers will encourage this and even help them. Kids aren't asked if they're a "male or female or non-binary" either (we have kids in school).

 

[I<3oil]

Where my mom works she and 3 other “aids” work with 1 teacher, she is shifted around to various other teachers over the year and works no more than 30 hours a week.

Library, lunch, study hall, recess, ED, EIP, one on ones bus all are part time except from paid insurance, paid leave, unemployment (state law bans .gov part time school from unemployment) and their pay rate is generally rather low though lifers like my mom may get a bonus for enough hours worked.

My mom is a former teacher and is moonlighting because she likes kids, definitely not a job you would work to pay for a house and family.

And most schools have a rather large amount of “support staff “ that don’t match up to the pay listed here, in many cases there are just as many support staff in teaching roles as there are full time teachers.

This varies district to district but is definitely a thing

Again, I have no idea why you're posting this. This has nothing to do with my post or the post I was quoting.

 

[Rmay635703]

[QUOTE="I Again, I have no idea why you're posting this. This has nothing to do with my post or the post I was quoting.
[/QUOTE]
Your post references “pay”

My counterpoint is that most districts have a sub class of individuals who are not paid in the brackets you list and are in teaching roles.

 

[Hall]

Why would anyone want to be a teacher when you’re paid starvation wages?

Because they love kids and love the value of an education Some people volunteer their time with no financial compensation, some people do jobs that others won't and for minimal money. To some people, money isn't everything.

 

[John105]

Because they love kids and love the value of an education Some people volunteer their time with no financial compensation, some people do jobs that others won't and for minimal money. To some people, money isn't everything.

Before my wife got a full time job at the school district (and I've said it in other posts thank goodness for the health care as I was north of $600/mo through my employer and doing FSA to cover the deductible which was like $1800 per person GRRRRRRR), she worked at a pre school for $14/hr. There were times I questioned whether this makes any sense at all. She felt she was doing it until she could get hired at the school district, where she was also working part time with no benefits. Before our son was born she worked in financial which paid more.

She loved the above and she loves what she does now. The funny thing too is many of her coworkers could be our daughter, they're mid 20's and some early 30's. I won't lie money means something. But there are truly folks who do things because they either want to, or love what they're doing. How about pediatricians and veterinarians?

 

[ecotourist]

My Grade 5 teacher administered a T/F test and subtracted the wrong from the right, and I think that method of scoring resulted in most of us getting lower marks than we were used to.

I understand the rationale; someone knowing absolutely nothing about the subject matter would typically squeak through with a 50%.

The way to make true and false questions really tough, is to structure them something like "A is true, B is true, C is true and D is true. And A, B, and C are true because D is true." That would have been fairly typical of the geology exam questions. You have to know a lot to be able to answer the question confidently.

Knowing most of it and answering is how I scored a 25% on that warm up test. My improved strategy was to only answer if I was absolutely sure about every part of the statement. With that new strategy and responding to only 65% of the questions (almost all of which would have been correct) was how I managed to get an A on the final.

 

[alarmguy]

No offense, but is your primary source of news a channel that starts with an "F" ?

There are lunatics out there fueling this fire that our kids are being taught or conditioned to be gay or that if a boy wants to be a girl, the school system and teachers will encourage this and even help them. Kids aren't asked if they're a "male or female or non-binary" either (we have kids in school).

Does your start with a C?
Or N?
Or W?
No offense!
I’m just surprised that a boy can use a girls room nowadays and claim he is transgender
I’m more surprised that some parents don’t care

 

[Hall]

Does your start with a C?
Or N?
Or W?

I really don't watch ANY mainstream media, especially if it involves "controversial" topics.

I’m just surprised that a boy can use a girls room nowadays and claim he is transgender
I’m more surprised that some parents don’t care

I have school-age children. Contrary to what many read on Facebook or hear from Hannity, etc, this is nowhere near as widespread as they want you to believe.

 

[Hall]

Does your start with a C?

For what it's worth, I use a news aggregator with my web browser. It shows headlines of stories from countless media outlets. Even in the past few days, if there was an interesting headline about the infamous sub from CNN, I hesitated to read it only because of the source. Same applies with Fox News.

Pick a hot, controversial topic and go to CNN and Fox and look at the difference in their headlines alone. They both can't be "right" but there are people dumb enough to believe one or the other. Not me, sorry....

 

[Bill7]

I saw two news stories today. There is correlation, but I won't assume there is causation. What I suspect and what I can prove are completely different topics. I implore you to NOT bring illicit topics into this. It's perfectly fine to discuss general concerns, but it's not OK to blame specific people or entities.

Story #1
The nations educational "report card" is out. One measure for 13 year old students indicates that the math scores have dropped 9 points and reading comprehension is 4 points down since 2019; to levels as low as what was seen in the 1970s. Other ages did poorly as well. Pandemic learning clearly didn't go well.

Story #2
Also, in Indiana (and I suspect elsewhere as well), there is an ever-increasing gap in teacher employment. More are leaving than entering, and so the void in teacher employment widens. There are a variety of reasons why good potential teachers choose not to enter the profession, and those are probably very similar to why many are leaving before retirement.


Ironically, the US spends more and more on education every year. The money apparently isn't having its intended effect. Decade after decade, we spend more on education, and get less and less in return.

Back when I was a kid, schools focused on Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. There were enrichment classes in math and science for those students who were doing well in the regular classes. Kids cared about and studied whole summers for the SAT test.

But today, schools are spending less time on science and math, and more time on other curriculums.
It's really a shame.

 

[John105]

Back when I was a kid, schools focused on Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. There were enrichment classes in math and science for those students who were doing well in the regular classes. Kids cared about and studied whole summers for the SAT test.

But today, schools are spending less time on science and math, and more time on other curriculums.
It's really a shame.

We didn't study for SATs other than while in school. Many of us only had to take it one time only as we'd get a decent score thanks to the HS prepping us. I will add some comic relief, I got a ZERO on the GMAT, when back then one got a 200 for simply putting one's name on the test and nothing more.

I was at a dinner in 2000 and an executive coworker said her daughter was in summer school. Maybe it was the look on my face

She said oh it's not like when you were in HS. These days, kids go to summer school to get ahead, not because they're behind. I said, oh. I was thinking if they go to school, then how can they work. I think today, they may not, as it's so competitive....

 

[andrewg]

No offense, but is your primary source of news a channel that starts with an "F" ?

There are lunatics out there fueling this fire that our kids are being taught or conditioned to be gay or that if a boy wants to be a girl, the school system and teachers will encourage this and even help them. Kids aren't asked if they're a "male or female or non-binary" either (we have kids in school).

Nobody claims kids are being "taught" to be gay. What they are being taught is in an ideology. That ideology is destructive to say the least. You choose not to believe it. That's your choice.

 

[Astro14]

Folks, let’s take a break. We’re arguing political points now.