I'd put good money that it's actually ZF Lifeguard.
DEXRON®-HP spec (GMW16974) published
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MolaKule
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Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Could the Dextron-HP have a better more shear stable synthetic base stock than Dex-6?
Partly that and partly due to the additive chemistry.
Afton and others are using a chemistry that improves friction stability and torque durability over the fluid's lifetime, with very little varnish or deposit formation.
Due to the power densities involved, resulting temperature increases, and with very little increase in case volume for the internal mechanicals, PAO and esters are the only fluids that can currently provide the necessary shear and oxidation stability.
Could the Dextron-HP have a better more shear stable synthetic base stock than Dex-6?
Partly that and partly due to the additive chemistry.
Afton and others are using a chemistry that improves friction stability and torque durability over the fluid's lifetime, with very little varnish or deposit formation.
Due to the power densities involved, resulting temperature increases, and with very little increase in case volume for the internal mechanicals, PAO and esters are the only fluids that can currently provide the necessary shear and oxidation stability.
Maybe a true full-syn 100,000mi "lifetime" fluid? Unlike that Toyota WS garbage.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
Maybe a true full-syn 100,000mi "lifetime" fluid? Unlike that Toyota WS garbage.
Most current so-called "synthetic" AT fluids contain approx. 75% GroupIII base oils. They perform well.
Interestingly,
1.) the HP specifications show some low temp performance improvement,
2.) MPG improvements range from 0.5% to 1.2%,
3.) the exemplary fluids do not show any advanced synthetic fluid chemistry involved. Of course, one can use any synthetic base oil or combination thereof as long as it meets the specifications.
.
Maybe a true full-syn 100,000mi "lifetime" fluid? Unlike that Toyota WS garbage.
Most current so-called "synthetic" AT fluids contain approx. 75% GroupIII base oils. They perform well.
Interestingly,
1.) the HP specifications show some low temp performance improvement,
2.) MPG improvements range from 0.5% to 1.2%,
3.) the exemplary fluids do not show any advanced synthetic fluid chemistry involved. Of course, one can use any synthetic base oil or combination thereof as long as it meets the specifications.
.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Here is the main reason for these Low Viscosity ATF's (LVFs) with low Brookfield viscosities:
Originally Posted By: SAE 2008-01-1728
Automobile manufacturers receive corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) benefits by employing low viscosity automatic transmission fluids (ATFs), which reduce the churning losses and drag resistance in the automatic transmission (AT) [1-7]. The new generation
of ATF has a fresh oil kinematic viscosity at 100 °C (KV100°C) between 5.2 and 6.4 cSt [1-7], which leads to lower Brookfield and start-up viscosities.
Originally Posted By: SAE 2008-01-1728
Automobile manufacturers receive corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) benefits by employing low viscosity automatic transmission fluids (ATFs), which reduce the churning losses and drag resistance in the automatic transmission (AT) [1-7]. The new generation
of ATF has a fresh oil kinematic viscosity at 100 °C (KV100°C) between 5.2 and 6.4 cSt [1-7], which leads to lower Brookfield and start-up viscosities.
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I'm hoping it would not be an exotic fluid and can be licensed out to other oil brands. If theres a Supertech DEXRON®-HP at Walmart I would flush out the DexVI instead of doing another drain-refill interval with DexVI.
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I may try the Amsoil MTF, blended with their Signature Series ATF to at least get thinner yet, since the MTF starts thinner than Red Line's MTL.
Just an update to this;
When I called and spoke to Amsoil's 'tech' dept., they said NOT to do this, as their versions of those two fluids will NOT mix well, for whatever undisclosed reason.
Whether this is just their 'canned'/pat/cover their *** answer, or a reality, who knows?
Whereas Dave at Red Line all but encourages customers to blend their MTL and D4 ATF with NO ill effects/results??
I may try the Amsoil MTF, blended with their Signature Series ATF to at least get thinner yet, since the MTF starts thinner than Red Line's MTL.
Just an update to this;
When I called and spoke to Amsoil's 'tech' dept., they said NOT to do this, as their versions of those two fluids will NOT mix well, for whatever undisclosed reason.
Whether this is just their 'canned'/pat/cover their *** answer, or a reality, who knows?
Whereas Dave at Red Line all but encourages customers to blend their MTL and D4 ATF with NO ill effects/results??
MolaKule
Staff member
They will mix well but the viscosity of the resulting MTF is lowered considerably.
Here is the problem with mixing any ATF and MTF:
The AW and synchro friction modifier chemistry of the MTF will be severely diluted.
There are LV dedicated MTFs available. Refer to my list.
Here is the problem with mixing any ATF and MTF:
The AW and synchro friction modifier chemistry of the MTF will be severely diluted.
There are LV dedicated MTFs available. Refer to my list.
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Originally Posted By: wirelessF
I'm hoping it would not be an exotic fluid and can be licensed out to other oil brands. If theres a Supertech DEXRON®-HP at Walmart I would flush out the DexVI instead of doing another drain-refill interval with DexVI.
If you visit gmpowertrain.com you will find that Valvoline, SK, Shell, and Chevron all hold DEXRON-HP licences.
I'm hoping it would not be an exotic fluid and can be licensed out to other oil brands. If theres a Supertech DEXRON®-HP at Walmart I would flush out the DexVI instead of doing another drain-refill interval with DexVI.
If you visit gmpowertrain.com you will find that Valvoline, SK, Shell, and Chevron all hold DEXRON-HP licences.
As time goes on and more gm vehicles start coming with the new 8sp auto we'll see more and more companies supporting this fluid . I think for 2016 all Cadillac's will come with an 8sp auto .
Originally Posted By: Ram01
As time goes on and more gm vehicles start coming with the new 8sp auto we'll see more and more companies supporting this fluid . I think for 2016 all Cadillac's will come with an 8sp auto .
When it comes out with the GM truck's 5.3L there will be hundreds of thousands of the 8speed on the road.
As time goes on and more gm vehicles start coming with the new 8sp auto we'll see more and more companies supporting this fluid . I think for 2016 all Cadillac's will come with an 8sp auto .
When it comes out with the GM truck's 5.3L there will be hundreds of thousands of the 8speed on the road.
The initial costs of the new Dexron-HP will be expensive, the costs will come down to normal levels soon.
Originally Posted By: stchman
The initial costs of the new Dexron-HP will be expensive, the costs will come down to normal levels soon.
It's actually not that new any longer, it's been around now for several years. Much of the cost comes from the current approved fluids all being PAO/Ester based. As previously stated the specification does not preclude the use of other base stocks but those formulations would have to demonstrate equivalent performance.
The initial costs of the new Dexron-HP will be expensive, the costs will come down to normal levels soon.
It's actually not that new any longer, it's been around now for several years. Much of the cost comes from the current approved fluids all being PAO/Ester based. As previously stated the specification does not preclude the use of other base stocks but those formulations would have to demonstrate equivalent performance.
Originally Posted By: Ram01
As time goes on and more gm vehicles start coming with the new 8sp auto we'll see more and more companies supporting this fluid . I think for 2016 all Cadillac's will come with an 8sp auto .
I wish the same could be said for Toyota's WS fluid. Toyotas AT's requiring WS went widespread in 2005 and even after 10 years there is no cheaper licensed alternative for people who want to change the ATF in their supposedly called "sealed lifetime transmissions."
As time goes on and more gm vehicles start coming with the new 8sp auto we'll see more and more companies supporting this fluid . I think for 2016 all Cadillac's will come with an 8sp auto .
I wish the same could be said for Toyota's WS fluid. Toyotas AT's requiring WS went widespread in 2005 and even after 10 years there is no cheaper licensed alternative for people who want to change the ATF in their supposedly called "sealed lifetime transmissions."
MolaKule
Staff member
Basically, it's just another income stream and a CYA situation for n-gear step-transmission suppliers.
Originally Posted By: wirelessF
I wish the same could be said for Toyota's WS fluid. Toyotas AT's requiring WS went widespread in 2005 and even after 10 years there is no cheaper licensed alternative for people who want to change the ATF in their supposedly called "sealed lifetime transmissions."
Toyota and the Japanese in general do not "license" specs the way that American and Europeans do. They don't require formal licensing/approval for WS in the way that, say, Dexron does.
Just look for any ATF that says Toyota WS on the back and you'll be fine
The very popular Maxlife ATF will work great.
I wish the same could be said for Toyota's WS fluid. Toyotas AT's requiring WS went widespread in 2005 and even after 10 years there is no cheaper licensed alternative for people who want to change the ATF in their supposedly called "sealed lifetime transmissions."
Toyota and the Japanese in general do not "license" specs the way that American and Europeans do. They don't require formal licensing/approval for WS in the way that, say, Dexron does.
Just look for any ATF that says Toyota WS on the back and you'll be fine
The very popular Maxlife ATF will work great.
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