Dealer added "BG ATC Plus® Automatic Transmission Conditioner" to my transmission flush, snake oil or helpful?

Owen Lucas · Jun 19, 2023

Sequoiasoon said:
If you actually want it "out" or mostly out you would need to at least a 3x drain and fill with a bit of mileage between each one. On the Sequoia it was better after first flush (14 qts), almost normal after 2nd flush (14 qts) and all good after the 3 flush, so 42qts total. They used the BG flush machine that hooked up to transmission cooler return line.

I'm hoping I can get away with 1 drain as this trans does not have a torque converter to trap fluid in. The trans appears to be more like a gear box So I think the majority of the fluid will drain out. Considering the additive doesn't seems not to be all that bad, what ever is left behind shouldn't be an issue IMHO.

walterjay · Jun 19, 2023

CKN said:
Your tr

Your transmission had other issues.....what type of vehicle, how many miles?

It was a late 90's Mercury Sable. Had about 60K. Lockup torque converter stated slipping in and out badly. At the time I couldn't afford new tranny so had lockup converter wire pulled and drove without it.

Hall · Jun 19, 2023

Owen Lucas said:
I'm hoping I can get away with 1 drain

I think I saw on Amsoil's site that the total capacity is only around 3.7 quarts and 2.5 comes out (typical Honda 4-cylinder) with a drain. That's 2/3rd of the capacity so for good measure, 2 drain and refills would certainly be really sufficient.

Deleted member 89374 · Jun 19, 2023

Owen Lucas said:
So basically, I'm still not sure, this guy could be blowing smoke but I feel that changing the fluid my self would be wise here for extra security. Maybe the additive isn't so bad and didn't cause harm immediately but I just don't want it in there long term. My local Honda parts dept said they wouldn't use this additive in the hybrid FWIW.

Just like Lubegard, they will say anything to get people to buy their product. "Just a base" could screw with the friction modification characteristics of the fluid. Also, I'm confused as to why would an ATF need a TBN boost? For ~~snake oil~~ additive manufacturers the silver lining is: "As long as our product doesn't cause any visible short term harm, we're good, and can perpetually sell the illusion of providing the unsuspecting public with a *miracle product*!"

This has been the case for a very long time. Though ~~snake oil~~ additive companies are slowly dying off, that's why they're pushing so hard their crud on dealers and the public. Simple rule of thumb: if it's not made by Infineum, Lubrizol, or Afton Chemical, Chevron Oronite Company, BASF, etc., and doesn't come as part of the finished product, I don't want it, and you shouldn't either.

In the end, use your best judgement, and just get rid of the stuff. Then, based on your local consumer protection laws, file the necessary complaints to recover your lost time and money, as they won't be able to show that:

You gave them consent to add the ~~snake oil~~ additive to your ATF fluid.
A long term test where it shows that the ~~snake oil~~ additive they used is beneficial for your transmission, or that it does anything to prolong the life of the unit beyond what's possible with OEM or MV ATF, or the OEM's life expectancy for that particular transmission model.

Hall · Jun 19, 2023

Rod Knock said:
For ~~snake oil~~ additive manufacturers the silver lining is: "As long as our product doesn't cause any visible short term harm, we're good, and can perpetually sell the illusion of providing the unsuspecting public with a *miracle product*!"

That's how I see or look at a lot of additives. I suspect they're formulated so that they can't hurt anything but whether or not they help is the real question. Worst case, the only "hurt" is the consumer's wallet from paying for the stuff.

Owen Lucas · Jun 19, 2023

UPDATE:

Called the dealer, they refunded the money for the trans service in full, so kudos to them. I was super nice but I did mention Honda's survey at which point they nearly begged me for a good result. The dealer does have 4.7 stars on Google which is hard to achieve, especially for a dealership.

Rod Knock said:
"As long as our product doesn't cause any visible short term harm, we're good, and can perpetually sell the illusion of providing the unsuspecting public with a *miracle product*!"

This. It would be very easy for the dealer or BG to deny a warranty claim 80k miles from now. There is no way to prove damage from an additive so long ago. I have a 120k 8 year Honda warranty on the vehicle but I don't want to go through the hassle if I can avoid it or reducing the lifespan after the warranty expires.

Rod Knock said:
You gave them consent to add the ~~snake oil~~ additive to your ATF fluid.

I do not, no way they can prove this.

Rod Knock said:
A long term test where it shows that the ~~snake oil~~ additive they used is beneficial for your transmission, or that it does anything to prolong the life of the unit beyond what's possible with OEM or MV ATF, or the OEM's life expectancy for that particular transmission model.

They could not provide any documentation from Honda or BG other than "oh we've been doing it for a long time and Honda is OK with it since we get audited". But as you mentioned before, there is not way they can tell a trans failed 5 years from now due to improper BG usage.

I was also told I am the only person to ever ask about this. I replied that they are using an part number and does not say "BG Automatic Transmission Cleaner" on their invoice rather it says "Installed B310 :ATC Plus" so I had to Google the product. The parts line blends in with the rest of the invoice.

I should have also mentioned I'm part of an oil enthusiast community that is very particular about their vehicles.

Anyway, off to Honda in a few days to DIY 2 oil changes. Stay tuned!

CKN · Jun 19, 2023

walterjay said:
It was a late 90's Mercury Sable. Had about 60K. Lockup torque converter stated slipping in and out badly. At the time I couldn't afford new tranny so had lockup converter wire pulled and drove without it.

OK-thanks. That AOD transmission was complete garbage. The additive could have only helped.

walterjay · Jun 19, 2023

CKN said:
OK-thanks. That AOD transmission was complete garbage. The additive could have only helped.

Sadly it didn't

Merek · Jun 28, 2023

I'm sure you will find that all of the manufacturers have disclaimers that no additives are needed in anything, fuel, oil, etc.... and can actually void the warranty.

The only one I can even think of is Ford uses an additive you need to add if your truck has LSD but some gear oils don't need it and will work by default.

Owen Lucas · Jul 27, 2023

FINAL UPDATE:

I completed the flush of the transmission and as @Hall mentioned, I drained it twice. Used Honda's DW-1 fluid from the dealer, since I had the vehicle on ramps 2.3 quarts came out as opposed to 2.5 but that is sufficient for me. Good thing is I recorded the whole experience (sans the first flush) and made a video on how to change a hybrid CRV's transmission fluid:

MolaKule · Jul 29, 2023

Owen Lucas said:
2020 Honda CRV Hybrid. 2 L Non-turbo 4 cyl with the CVT and some hybrid tech in there so it's not a normal CRV trans. 68k miles.

It was time for the trans fluid replacement so I give the go ahead. I realize now on the service documents that they added this BG stuff. Should I be concerned?

Dealer said it was time for the transmission change but I could swear I had it done a while back. Service writer showed my the maintenance logs on their portal and there was no trans fluid service present, figured maybe I'm confused as we have a few CRVs in the family.

I check my documents when I get home and the trans fluid was indeed changed 18k likes ago at 50k.

Would there be any harm with an early flush and having this BG trans conditioner added?

BG ATC Plus® Automatic Transmission Conditioner

Prevents deposit formation and fluid breakdown while improving oxidation stability, transmission shudder, and shifting problems.

www.bgprod.com

p.s. I'm going to have a conversation with the old dealer I used to go to as they haven't entered any maintenance work for 30k miles!

If you did not ask for any transmission service other than a fluid change, ask the dealer to remove that charge for BG additive since you did not authorize it.

This action by the dealer results in an "upcharge."

UG_Passat · Jul 29, 2023

eljefino said:
Well that website says no CVTs so I'd go into the dealer and have a chat. Get it out of there, genuine honda fluid only.

When BG means CVT's, they mean traditional belt/pulley CVT's, which the CR-V 2-motor hybrid doesn't have.

Owen Lucas · Jul 29, 2023

MolaKule said:
If you did not ask for any transmission service other than a fluid change, ask the dealer to remove that charge for BG additive since you did not authorize it.

This action by the dealer results in an "upcharge."

They refunded me for the entire service as I told them I will drain and flush it twice to remove the old additive. Whatever is left behind is probably minimal after 2 flushes. Besides my time lost, I turned the experience into a helpful video.

nickycee · Aug 1, 2023

Owen Lucas said:
2020 Honda CRV Hybrid. 2 L Non-turbo 4 cyl with the CVT and some hybrid tech in there so it's not a normal CRV trans. 68k miles.

It was time for the trans fluid replacement so I give the go ahead. I realize now on the service documents that they added this BG stuff. Should I be concerned?

Dealer said it was time for the transmission change but I could swear I had it done a while back. Service writer showed my the maintenance logs on their portal and there was no trans fluid service present, figured maybe I'm confused as we have a few CRVs in the family.

I check my documents when I get home and the trans fluid was indeed changed 18k likes ago at 50k.

Would there be any harm with an early flush and having this BG trans conditioner added?

BG ATC Plus® Automatic Transmission Conditioner

Prevents deposit formation and fluid breakdown while improving oxidation stability, transmission shudder, and shifting problems.

www.bgprod.com

p.s. I'm going to have a conversation with the old dealer I used to go to as they haven't entered any maintenance work for 30k miles!

This is a long thread with all sorts of opinion and conjecture. There are also some outright falsehoods. Just an FYI - I've probably done 10,000 drain and fills on transmissions of all kinds. BG is a good additive for transmissions. Is it needed? No. Does it "hurt" the transmission. Not at all. There are two kinds of BG transmission additives: 1) CVT PLUS - Part Number: 303. For CTV transmission -like this Honda in question. Fortifies and prolongs transmission fluid life in CVT, DCT and DSG transmissions. 2) ATC PLUS - Part Number 310. This product IS NOT for use in Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVT), Dual Clutch Transmissions (DCT) or transmissions requiring Ford Type F transmission fluid. Unless your Honda dealership is run by truly incompetent fools, I'm sure they used CVT PLUS - PN 303 in your Honda CVT transmission. Ask them to see the product or the part number of the product they used. Again, this BG product will do no harm. It won't do much good but it's perfectly safe.

twouvakind · Aug 1, 2023

Holy way too often trans service on a newer vehicle Batman.

Owen Lucas · Aug 1, 2023

nickycee said:
This is a long thread with all sorts of opinion and conjecture. There are also some outright falsehoods. Just an FYI - I've probably done 10,000 drain and fills on transmissions of all kinds. BG is a good additive for transmissions. Is it needed? No. Does it "hurt" the transmission. Not at all. There are two kinds of BG transmission additives: 1) CVT PLUS - Part Number: 303. For CTV transmission -like this Honda in question. Fortifies and prolongs transmission fluid life in CVT, DCT and DSG transmissions. 2) ATC PLUS - Part Number 310. This product IS NOT for use in Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVT), Dual Clutch Transmissions (DCT) or transmissions requiring Ford Type F transmission fluid. Unless your Honda dealership is run by truly incompetent fools, I'm sure they used CVT PLUS - PN 303 in your Honda CVT transmission. Ask them to see the product or the part number of the product they used. Again, this BG product will do no harm. It won't do much good but it's perfectly safe.

The jury was still out and with the lack of transparency on the part of BG where I could not speak to an engineer and just a "technical sales person", and the dealer being less than honest. I erred on the side of caution.

I have called both Liqui Moly in Germany as well as Lube Gard and had the pleasure to speak with engineers. A lot to ask but I call that good customer service. No harm in flushing the trans twice, I was surprised to see the oil was much darker than the new even after 1000 miles.

Owen Lucas · Aug 1, 2023

twouvakind said:
Holy way too often trans service on a newer vehicle Batman.

Almost 70k miles, it's driven a lot.

Owen Lucas · Aug 18, 2023

Use OEM fluids and don’t use any additives like the dealer did in my case to stealth up-charge me: