[Cut Open] Wix 57356XP - Virgin - M+H
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Originally Posted By: MParr
Just me but, no dome end bypass filter gets near my Ford.
That's just silliness.
If your engine is clean inside, there is NO REASON to believe a dome-end bypass will ever cause any engine wear or damage.
Here's the proof - Have you ever read this? : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3197094
Just me but, no dome end bypass filter gets near my Ford.
That's just silliness.
If your engine is clean inside, there is NO REASON to believe a dome-end bypass will ever cause any engine wear or damage.
Here's the proof - Have you ever read this? : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3197094
Originally Posted By: Trav
Now your talking silly. I am a private person not a company that can afford the cost of tearing engines apart, testing them then tear them apart again.
This engine was in in my hands from 93-2005, the oil filters were OE Honda and not synthetic media, the few aftermarket ones I used were inexpensive as I changed the oil every 5K.
Meeting new engine spec is new spec and no scoring or scratches is no scoring or scratches its that simple.
No, I'm not talking 'silly", I'm talking about measuring engine wear the correct way to prove if a more efficient filter results in less wear, and you're just talking about an engine that didn't wear outside the FSM specs without knowing the new engine measurements. There's a big difference in what we're talking about.
Originally Posted By: Trav
When you can reuse bearing shells after over 200K km on a high output engine 135 HP/ltr something was working right.
Does it matter how efficient the filter was? According to you it had to be inferior to the Fram in any case.
Now your talking silly. I am a private person not a company that can afford the cost of tearing engines apart, testing them then tear them apart again.
This engine was in in my hands from 93-2005, the oil filters were OE Honda and not synthetic media, the few aftermarket ones I used were inexpensive as I changed the oil every 5K.
Meeting new engine spec is new spec and no scoring or scratches is no scoring or scratches its that simple.
No, I'm not talking 'silly", I'm talking about measuring engine wear the correct way to prove if a more efficient filter results in less wear, and you're just talking about an engine that didn't wear outside the FSM specs without knowing the new engine measurements. There's a big difference in what we're talking about.
Originally Posted By: Trav
When you can reuse bearing shells after over 200K km on a high output engine 135 HP/ltr something was working right.
Does it matter how efficient the filter was? According to you it had to be inferior to the Fram in any case.
Originally Posted By: Trav
New engine measurements and wear limits from Honda FSM. Over 200K km all lubricated parts within new specs using Starrett micrometers (digital and analog).
This engine was owned by me from 0km brand new in crate motorcycle for over 12 years, run on one brand and weight oil except for the break in and Honda oil filters with the exception of a few aftermarket filters when OE was not available.
Engine was totally disassembled for a stretched cam chain, cylinder and pistons removed and cases split. The engine routinely saw 12,000 rpm and high sustained speeds.
What experts? I have SAE access. No dispute oil with few particles will result in less wear but the question is where do the particles come from?
This particular engine is a rare and perfect example for this discussion, it was in the same hand its whole life, taken care of by someone who knew how to and did take care of it and it has a full OCI history.
Another point worth mentioning is this engine was very tight and well protected against stray air ingress and tight ventilation system. The air intakes were located behind the riders legs on the side keeping the airflow to the filters air box low pressure and undisturbed air flow.
As the engine was not wearing to any measurable degree very few particles were being released into the oil, the oil did a good job of keeping carbon of the pistons and skirts.
The only real avenue for particle ingress would have been the air filter which was always replaced sometimes before recommended interval and obviously did its job as no scoring was evident in the soft tri metal bearing overlay.
Basically it would appear this engine could have run with not much more than a screen for an oil filter with no ill effects.
If an engine is leaking unfiltered air like a sieve like some old carburetor engines did from places like carb to air cleaner connection because the gasket was long gone years ago or leaky pcv system then yes I believe a more efficient oil filter would be of some benefit but how much additional engine life will result from it?
Modern engines are very well sealed against unfiltered air ingress and judging by the reduced size of oil filters found on many engines these days the oil filters efficiency is less important than flow through the system.
Some engines like those from VW use a large filter not only for filtering but for additional capacity like on the earlier 1.8 turbo engines.
Using a quality air filter with tight connections and changed on schedule is IMO probably the most important part of keeping particles out of the engine.
The engines I have seen ruined by incorrect oil filters were Fiat diesels that knocked or seized right after an oil and filter change. I have no info on which filter was installed as I didn't install them, I just investigated the damage, the engines and filters were subsequently sent to Fiat through the dealer network.
I did note however the filter that caused the damage had an ADBV in both cases and the OE spec did not indicating this particular engine possibly used a different flow through the filter.
Trav,
The only engine I have ever seen that was torn down using M1 oils(many using dino) was a 1998 Ford Taurus 3.0 with 185K. The reason was my friends wife got caught in a flooded country road from a thunder storm. She couldn't see the ditch and drove into it and flooded the engine causing one rod to bend. My friend pulled the engine and measured all engine parts and all spec'd new. The engine was also was very clean. He replaced the rod and the rest is history. OIL FILTERS USED AT 10K OCI WAS MC FL400 FOR THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE(80-20ppm).I still maintain the oil you use is far more important than the filter you use.
New engine measurements and wear limits from Honda FSM. Over 200K km all lubricated parts within new specs using Starrett micrometers (digital and analog).
This engine was owned by me from 0km brand new in crate motorcycle for over 12 years, run on one brand and weight oil except for the break in and Honda oil filters with the exception of a few aftermarket filters when OE was not available.
Engine was totally disassembled for a stretched cam chain, cylinder and pistons removed and cases split. The engine routinely saw 12,000 rpm and high sustained speeds.
What experts? I have SAE access. No dispute oil with few particles will result in less wear but the question is where do the particles come from?
This particular engine is a rare and perfect example for this discussion, it was in the same hand its whole life, taken care of by someone who knew how to and did take care of it and it has a full OCI history.
Another point worth mentioning is this engine was very tight and well protected against stray air ingress and tight ventilation system. The air intakes were located behind the riders legs on the side keeping the airflow to the filters air box low pressure and undisturbed air flow.
As the engine was not wearing to any measurable degree very few particles were being released into the oil, the oil did a good job of keeping carbon of the pistons and skirts.
The only real avenue for particle ingress would have been the air filter which was always replaced sometimes before recommended interval and obviously did its job as no scoring was evident in the soft tri metal bearing overlay.
Basically it would appear this engine could have run with not much more than a screen for an oil filter with no ill effects.
If an engine is leaking unfiltered air like a sieve like some old carburetor engines did from places like carb to air cleaner connection because the gasket was long gone years ago or leaky pcv system then yes I believe a more efficient oil filter would be of some benefit but how much additional engine life will result from it?
Modern engines are very well sealed against unfiltered air ingress and judging by the reduced size of oil filters found on many engines these days the oil filters efficiency is less important than flow through the system.
Some engines like those from VW use a large filter not only for filtering but for additional capacity like on the earlier 1.8 turbo engines.
Using a quality air filter with tight connections and changed on schedule is IMO probably the most important part of keeping particles out of the engine.
The engines I have seen ruined by incorrect oil filters were Fiat diesels that knocked or seized right after an oil and filter change. I have no info on which filter was installed as I didn't install them, I just investigated the damage, the engines and filters were subsequently sent to Fiat through the dealer network.
I did note however the filter that caused the damage had an ADBV in both cases and the OE spec did not indicating this particular engine possibly used a different flow through the filter.
Trav,
The only engine I have ever seen that was torn down using M1 oils(many using dino) was a 1998 Ford Taurus 3.0 with 185K. The reason was my friends wife got caught in a flooded country road from a thunder storm. She couldn't see the ditch and drove into it and flooded the engine causing one rod to bend. My friend pulled the engine and measured all engine parts and all spec'd new. The engine was also was very clean. He replaced the rod and the rest is history. OIL FILTERS USED AT 10K OCI WAS MC FL400 FOR THE LIFE OF THE ENGINE(80-20ppm).I still maintain the oil you use is far more important than the filter you use.
I need to update my post. I e-mailed Wix Customer Service and requested the micron/efficiency rating for my application XP 51334.
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!
Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Not the best . Mabe mid range . Not high range either . Either low or mid range . Without the ultra fram still having bad rep every where on car forum .
To op that a solid build filter , I am going to use wix xp next . Only reason I was using fram ultra was the synthetic media and WIREBACK . Now I see wix build the same but more solid. It will be my to go filter from now . Wix made one of the best filter on the market . No bad rep any where I go. Fram do have bad rep every where I go.
I've had several mechanics tell me that engines benefit more from oil flow vs efficiency. As, Trav just aforementioned. Which makes sense, since oil flow is paramount. For the first 20 years, I used OEM filters with 40 micron ratings.
But, I sleep better knowing that I'm self conscious about maintenance with OCD for my Montero. Homo sapiens are emotional creatures. Feeling good is better than feeling bad! lol
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Originally Posted By: Pajero
The quality of the build is impressive. The filtering not so much!
Many people enjoy mocking Fram for the OCOD, yet Fram makes one of the best oil filters on the market (efficiency rating context), aside from the price.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
Not the best . Mabe mid range . Not high range either . Either low or mid range . Without the ultra fram still having bad rep every where on car forum .
To op that a solid build filter , I am going to use wix xp next . Only reason I was using fram ultra was the synthetic media and WIREBACK . Now I see wix build the same but more solid. It will be my to go filter from now . Wix made one of the best filter on the market . No bad rep any where I go. Fram do have bad rep every where I go.
I've had several mechanics tell me that engines benefit more from oil flow vs efficiency. As, Trav just aforementioned. Which makes sense, since oil flow is paramount. For the first 20 years, I used OEM filters with 40 micron ratings.
But, I sleep better knowing that I'm self conscious about maintenance with OCD for my Montero. Homo sapiens are emotional creatures. Feeling good is better than feeling bad! lol
Respectfully,
Pajero!
No surprise at all Tig. Mobil 1 is a very good oil with a history of keeping engines clean and in good working order.
In my case the simple fact that no scoring or scratches in soft bearing overlays or aluminum head bearing surface proves there were no hard particles roaming around the oiling system regardless of filter efficiency.
Notice this engine uses a cartridge filter, I would bet money Mobil used OE filters (known on this board for their supposed inefficiency but better flow) and not a high efficiency aftermarket. Somehow it managed to to survive unscathed.
The video is obviously advertising hype for HM oil, visible wear is meaningless, wear must be measured but what is significant is the bearing shells and the lack of particle streaking.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...leage-challenge
In my case the simple fact that no scoring or scratches in soft bearing overlays or aluminum head bearing surface proves there were no hard particles roaming around the oiling system regardless of filter efficiency.
Notice this engine uses a cartridge filter, I would bet money Mobil used OE filters (known on this board for their supposed inefficiency but better flow) and not a high efficiency aftermarket. Somehow it managed to to survive unscathed.
The video is obviously advertising hype for HM oil, visible wear is meaningless, wear must be measured but what is significant is the bearing shells and the lack of particle streaking.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...leage-challenge
Originally Posted By: Pajero
I need to update my post. I e-mailed Wix Customer Service and requested the micron/efficiency rating for my application XP 51334.
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
I thought WIX considered their XP as their top of the line "premium product".
I need to update my post. I e-mailed Wix Customer Service and requested the micron/efficiency rating for my application XP 51334.
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
I thought WIX considered their XP as their top of the line "premium product".
Originally Posted By: Pajero
I've had several mechanics tell me that engines benefit more from oil flow vs efficiency. As, Trav just aforementioned. Which makes sense, since oil flow is paramount. For the first 20 years, I used OEM filters with 40 micron ratings.
Those mechanics must not understand how a positive displacement oil pump works in an oiling system. No such thing as "flow over filtration" except in very rare conditions where the oil pump is running in pressure relief.
I've had several mechanics tell me that engines benefit more from oil flow vs efficiency. As, Trav just aforementioned. Which makes sense, since oil flow is paramount. For the first 20 years, I used OEM filters with 40 micron ratings.
Those mechanics must not understand how a positive displacement oil pump works in an oiling system. No such thing as "flow over filtration" except in very rare conditions where the oil pump is running in pressure relief.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Notice this engine uses a cartridge filter, I would bet money Mobil used OE filters (known on this board for their supposed inefficiency but better flow) and not a high efficiency aftermarket. Somehow it managed to to survive unscathed.
The video is obviously advertising hype for HM oil, visible wear is meaningless, wear must be measured but what is significant is the bearing shells and the lack of particle streaking.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...leage-challenge
All based solely on "looks" ... no mention of new vs used dimensions on any parts. And no mention of filter used, could have also been a Mobil 1 filters used for the entire 500K test. Very inconclusive test if trying to prove if oil or filter used makes a measurable difference. Basic advertising hype. Regardless of that, no doubt Mobil 1 is good oil, I've used it a long time too.
Notice this engine uses a cartridge filter, I would bet money Mobil used OE filters (known on this board for their supposed inefficiency but better flow) and not a high efficiency aftermarket. Somehow it managed to to survive unscathed.
The video is obviously advertising hype for HM oil, visible wear is meaningless, wear must be measured but what is significant is the bearing shells and the lack of particle streaking.
https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...leage-challenge
All based solely on "looks" ... no mention of new vs used dimensions on any parts. And no mention of filter used, could have also been a Mobil 1 filters used for the entire 500K test. Very inconclusive test if trying to prove if oil or filter used makes a measurable difference. Basic advertising hype. Regardless of that, no doubt Mobil 1 is good oil, I've used it a long time too.
Personally IMHO this Fram Ultra efficiency love fest is way over the top.
[/quote]
You may be on to something.
[/quote]
You may be on to something.
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: MParr
Just me but, no dome end bypass filter gets near my Ford.
That's just silliness.
If your engine is clean inside, there is NO REASON to believe a dome-end bypass will ever cause any engine wear or damage.
Here's the proof - Have you ever read this? : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3197094
Whatever! A base end bypass is what came from the factory and that is what will go on. That means only Motorcraft or WIX/NAPA Gold go on my Escape.
Originally Posted By: MParr
Just me but, no dome end bypass filter gets near my Ford.
That's just silliness.
If your engine is clean inside, there is NO REASON to believe a dome-end bypass will ever cause any engine wear or damage.
Here's the proof - Have you ever read this? : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3197094
Whatever! A base end bypass is what came from the factory and that is what will go on. That means only Motorcraft or WIX/NAPA Gold go on my Escape.
I too thought the Wix XP was their top of the line product.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Pajero
I need to update my post. I e-mailed Wix Customer Service and requested the micron/efficiency rating for my application XP 51334.
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
I thought WIX considered their XP as their top of the line "premium product".
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Pajero
I need to update my post. I e-mailed Wix Customer Service and requested the micron/efficiency rating for my application XP 51334.
Response "Hi Kevin, Micron ratings are not listed for XP product, We only list micron ratings on our premium products."
Ouch! Boy, Wix knows how to keep customers.....From this correspondence, I never want to purchase another Wix product again.
Respectfully,
Pajero!
I thought WIX considered their XP as their top of the line "premium product".
That is a BLACK BEAUTY! Makes you want to
all over the place because of its beauty!
Originally Posted By: MParr
Personally IMHO this Fram Ultra efficiency love fest is way over the top.
You may be on to something. [/quote]You guys misspelled "Fram Ultra efficiency love fest" for ONE THIRD THE PRICE of a less efficient Wix XP/Napa Platinum!
Personally IMHO this Fram Ultra efficiency love fest is way over the top.
You may be on to something. [/quote]You guys misspelled "Fram Ultra efficiency love fest" for ONE THIRD THE PRICE of a less efficient Wix XP/Napa Platinum!
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