Conventional 10w30 - safe for winter?
- Thread starter dgunay
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5W20 per Acura spec in either Pennzoil Platinum or Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Of course the PYB 10W30 is just fine,but I bet the synthetic 5W20 will "wake up" your Acura.
Thanks for all input. I really appreciate your opinions. I will keep it for 1000 more miles and change it on time.
I have some PUP/PP/M1 5w30 and TGMO 0w20 in my stash. I had some conventional in my stash as well, which was for my previous car. I just wanted to get rid of them first. This 10w30 PYB was the last one and I am planning to use synthetic afterwards.
I have some PUP/PP/M1 5w30 and TGMO 0w20 in my stash. I had some conventional in my stash as well, which was for my previous car. I just wanted to get rid of them first. This 10w30 PYB was the last one and I am planning to use synthetic afterwards.
Some of us here can remember when conventional 10w30 was the only option for winter. Quite a few of us in that camp can also remember dumping it as soon as the weather got warm, because we just knew it was too thin for summer use. That was then and this is now.
Will your car be ok? Sure. Are there better options? You betcha! Get yourself a quality synthetic 5w30 for year round use, and never look back.
Will your car be ok? Sure. Are there better options? You betcha! Get yourself a quality synthetic 5w30 for year round use, and never look back.
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Originally Posted By: JC1
Just leave the PYB in the engine for this OCI. I live in the GTA and I never run 10w-30. Always a 5w-20 or 5w-30 full synthetic in this weather.
For our American friends, 0W-30 or 0W-20 aren't cheap and easily found at every Auto parts store in Canada. You usually pay more for that grade of oil up here. When Walmart Canada has it's oil specials it's usually only for 5w-20, 5w-30 or 10w-30 (10w which is a rarity up here).
Canadian Tire (and by extension Partsource) has a full selection of 0w-20, 0w-30 and 0w-40 oils in stock and they regularly go on sale. I picked up a ton of M1 AFE 0w-20, Castrol Edge (gold bottle) 0w-20 and Castrol Edge 0w-40 all for roughly $35/5L jug.
I don't even bother checking Walmart anymore, and you've done a great job illustrating why
Just leave the PYB in the engine for this OCI. I live in the GTA and I never run 10w-30. Always a 5w-20 or 5w-30 full synthetic in this weather.
For our American friends, 0W-30 or 0W-20 aren't cheap and easily found at every Auto parts store in Canada. You usually pay more for that grade of oil up here. When Walmart Canada has it's oil specials it's usually only for 5w-20, 5w-30 or 10w-30 (10w which is a rarity up here).
Canadian Tire (and by extension Partsource) has a full selection of 0w-20, 0w-30 and 0w-40 oils in stock and they regularly go on sale. I picked up a ton of M1 AFE 0w-20, Castrol Edge (gold bottle) 0w-20 and Castrol Edge 0w-40 all for roughly $35/5L jug.
I don't even bother checking Walmart anymore, and you've done a great job illustrating why
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
10w30 is fine. Don't buy into all this cold start mumbo jumbo. Cars ran all year long on 10w40 and 20w50. It's just the new generation that believes it can't be.
Worry more about fuel. When it gets down below 0 fuel does weird stuff. Maybe with the new ethanol it will be better since dry gas. I d just keep your tank topped off.
Your battery will either start or not start not much you can do there.
I lived in the mountains of Pennsylvania for 35 years.
I seen -40 with the windshield, I know cold and I ve started cars on 30 HD without incident. It won't hurt a thing.
Wind chill has no effect on what the car sees however and the CCS and MRV limits exist for a reason, just because somebody's junk didn't blow up 30 years ago running a sub-optimal lubricant isn't justification to continue that process when a myriad of options exist that are actually properly vetted for those temperatures.
The MRV test exists precisely because oil did in fact refuse to pump and this behaviour was not properly predicted by pour point. There actually were engines that failed from oil that would not pump. However, the bigger and more common issue, that varies vehicle-to-vehicle is impact on cranking speed (CCS). If a car has a less than well-spec'd or less than perfectly healthy battery, that thicker oil can be the difference between it starting and not.
10w30 is fine. Don't buy into all this cold start mumbo jumbo. Cars ran all year long on 10w40 and 20w50. It's just the new generation that believes it can't be.
Worry more about fuel. When it gets down below 0 fuel does weird stuff. Maybe with the new ethanol it will be better since dry gas. I d just keep your tank topped off.
Your battery will either start or not start not much you can do there.
I lived in the mountains of Pennsylvania for 35 years.
I seen -40 with the windshield, I know cold and I ve started cars on 30 HD without incident. It won't hurt a thing.
Wind chill has no effect on what the car sees however and the CCS and MRV limits exist for a reason, just because somebody's junk didn't blow up 30 years ago running a sub-optimal lubricant isn't justification to continue that process when a myriad of options exist that are actually properly vetted for those temperatures.
The MRV test exists precisely because oil did in fact refuse to pump and this behaviour was not properly predicted by pour point. There actually were engines that failed from oil that would not pump. However, the bigger and more common issue, that varies vehicle-to-vehicle is impact on cranking speed (CCS). If a car has a less than well-spec'd or less than perfectly healthy battery, that thicker oil can be the difference between it starting and not.
Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Some of us here can remember when conventional 10w30 was the only option for winter. Quite a few of us in that camp can also remember dumping it as soon as the weather got warm, because we just knew it was too thin for summer use. That was then and this is now.
That is true, but there are some differences. Back in those days, a carbed engine could be coaxed relatively easily to fire, including in temperatures where it wasn't a good idea. Distributor shafts have been twisted, and worse.
These days, you also get some pretty piddling batteries in some vehicles. My advice is always to choose sensibly for the climate, especially when there are better options these days, without spending extra money. Yes, 10w-30 worked great all year (and still will in most applications). I've mentioned in other threads that it's interesting to note here that our Canadian Tire stores have taken most 10w-30 synthetics off the shelf altogether. A couple 5w-20 examples, too, are disappearing in favour of 0w-20 ones.
Some of us here can remember when conventional 10w30 was the only option for winter. Quite a few of us in that camp can also remember dumping it as soon as the weather got warm, because we just knew it was too thin for summer use. That was then and this is now.
That is true, but there are some differences. Back in those days, a carbed engine could be coaxed relatively easily to fire, including in temperatures where it wasn't a good idea. Distributor shafts have been twisted, and worse.
These days, you also get some pretty piddling batteries in some vehicles. My advice is always to choose sensibly for the climate, especially when there are better options these days, without spending extra money. Yes, 10w-30 worked great all year (and still will in most applications). I've mentioned in other threads that it's interesting to note here that our Canadian Tire stores have taken most 10w-30 synthetics off the shelf altogether. A couple 5w-20 examples, too, are disappearing in favour of 0w-20 ones.
So Overkill the general consensus is now run a light oil for start up concerns but then you have a thin oil for the majority of the time when the engine is hot then.
Think about that.
A engine benefits from a thin oil only 10% of it's life at start up and immediately starts to warm up and when you really get hot your now dealing with super ultra thin oil when your motor is at it's stressed most point for however long that engine is running and working and now it's working it's hardest with a thin oil.
I know, you will say thin oils have proven that they will suffice well thick oils have proven they will too for about as twice as long a time.
Think about that.
A engine benefits from a thin oil only 10% of it's life at start up and immediately starts to warm up and when you really get hot your now dealing with super ultra thin oil when your motor is at it's stressed most point for however long that engine is running and working and now it's working it's hardest with a thin oil.
I know, you will say thin oils have proven that they will suffice well thick oils have proven they will too for about as twice as long a time.
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
So Overkill the general consensus is now run a light oil for start up concerns but then you have a thin oil for the majority of the time when the engine is hot then.
Think about that.
A engine benefits from a thin oil only 10% of it's life at start up and immediately starts to warm up and when you really get hot your now dealing with super ultra thin oil when your motor is at it's stressed most point for however long that engine is running and working and now it's working it's hardest with a thin oil.
I know, you will say thin oils have proven that they will suffice well thick oils have proven they will too for about as twice as long a time.
I'm advocating running the appropriate grade as per the manufacturer, but with the equally appropriate winter rating for the climate.
A 0w-30 is no "lighter" than a 10w-30, you've been here long enough to know that. Heck, GC 0w-30 is heavier than basically every 10w-30 on the shelf at operating temperature.
I'm not sure where your "super ultra thin" oil nonsense is coming from, my 470HP SRT is running 0w-40, which is significantly heavier than the 10w-30 being discussed, but has the benefit of actually being pumpable at -40C and is the same thing spec'd for your Scat Pack.
So Overkill the general consensus is now run a light oil for start up concerns but then you have a thin oil for the majority of the time when the engine is hot then.
Think about that.
A engine benefits from a thin oil only 10% of it's life at start up and immediately starts to warm up and when you really get hot your now dealing with super ultra thin oil when your motor is at it's stressed most point for however long that engine is running and working and now it's working it's hardest with a thin oil.
I know, you will say thin oils have proven that they will suffice well thick oils have proven they will too for about as twice as long a time.
I'm advocating running the appropriate grade as per the manufacturer, but with the equally appropriate winter rating for the climate.
A 0w-30 is no "lighter" than a 10w-30, you've been here long enough to know that. Heck, GC 0w-30 is heavier than basically every 10w-30 on the shelf at operating temperature.
I'm not sure where your "super ultra thin" oil nonsense is coming from, my 470HP SRT is running 0w-40, which is significantly heavier than the 10w-30 being discussed, but has the benefit of actually being pumpable at -40C and is the same thing spec'd for your Scat Pack.
Can you plug in a block heater at your friends place?
The oil will be ok but I would put your battery on a proper charger overnight to make sure it has a full charge
The oil will be ok but I would put your battery on a proper charger overnight to make sure it has a full charge
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Originally Posted By: Astro_Guy
Some of us here can remember when conventional 10w30 was the only option for winter. Quite a few of us in that camp can also remember dumping it as soon as the weather got warm, because we just knew it was too thin for summer use. That was then and this is now.
Will your car be ok? Sure. Are there better options? You betcha! Get yourself a quality synthetic 5w30 for year round use, and never look back.
Haha yep,I remember when 10W30 was considered a "winter oil"
Some of us here can remember when conventional 10w30 was the only option for winter. Quite a few of us in that camp can also remember dumping it as soon as the weather got warm, because we just knew it was too thin for summer use. That was then and this is now.
Will your car be ok? Sure. Are there better options? You betcha! Get yourself a quality synthetic 5w30 for year round use, and never look back.
Haha yep,I remember when 10W30 was considered a "winter oil"
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A 0w-30 is no "lighter" than a 10w-30, you've been here long enough to know that. Heck, GC 0w-30 is heavier than basically every 10w-30 on the shelf at operating temperature.
Exactly, and my Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 and Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 are both significantly thicker than ordinary 10w-30 at operating temperatures, with none of the cold start limitations.
A 0w-30 is no "lighter" than a 10w-30, you've been here long enough to know that. Heck, GC 0w-30 is heavier than basically every 10w-30 on the shelf at operating temperature.
Exactly, and my Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 and Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 are both significantly thicker than ordinary 10w-30 at operating temperatures, with none of the cold start limitations.
I wonder how folks got by before the 5Wxx or 0Wxx oils hit the market? You are more likely to blow a freeze plug before hurting your engine running 10W30 conventional oil.
Of course, they did. But there were certain aspects we cannot forget that weren't exactly ideal. Dumping kerosene was one kludge, if you go back far enough. Back then, and a bit farther, car owners were often horse owners, and the horse and buggy were the cold weather fallback. That not a possibility for the vast majority of the population.
When carbs were around, you could often coax a vehicle to start when it probably should not have been started, and some people did regret it. A decent battery and a little boost to the fuel mixture, and you might start in -40 with a monograde, wise or not. These days, it doesn't hurt to have a bit of room to the left of the "w" to make up for a smaller or weaker battery, either. Your oil might be at a temperature where it will pump, but you might not start in the first place, the reverse of the previous problem.
When carbs were around, you could often coax a vehicle to start when it probably should not have been started, and some people did regret it. A decent battery and a little boost to the fuel mixture, and you might start in -40 with a monograde, wise or not. These days, it doesn't hurt to have a bit of room to the left of the "w" to make up for a smaller or weaker battery, either. Your oil might be at a temperature where it will pump, but you might not start in the first place, the reverse of the previous problem.
-25 Saturday night northeastern Vermont. Val high mileage 5w30 in the 02 jeep. Cranked a little slower but started. Tonight they say -35 we will see. I do not think you will have a problem.
My dad still uses 10w30 in his one 01’ Dakota that sits outside.
He said truck was lil’ slow starting this morning as where I was it was -9F
He said truck was lil’ slow starting this morning as where I was it was -9F
Originally Posted By: MParr
I wonder how folks got by before the 5Wxx or 0Wxx oils hit the market? You are more likely to blow a freeze plug before hurting your engine running 10W30 conventional oil.
Frankly, at times we didn't get along very well. I remember in the late 50s and early 60s a lot of engines just wouldn't start in temps below 0F without outside help.
I wonder how folks got by before the 5Wxx or 0Wxx oils hit the market? You are more likely to blow a freeze plug before hurting your engine running 10W30 conventional oil.
Frankly, at times we didn't get along very well. I remember in the late 50s and early 60s a lot of engines just wouldn't start in temps below 0F without outside help.
No doubt, tig1, that there are a lot of rose tinted glasses about how good things were in the old days. Block heaters, oil pan heaters, and proper multigrades didn't come about because what existed was working perfectly.
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Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: MParr
I wonder how folks got by before the 5Wxx or 0Wxx oils hit the market? You are more likely to blow a freeze plug before hurting your engine running 10W30 conventional oil.
Frankly, at times we didn't get along very well. I remember in the late 50s and early 60s a lot of engines just wouldn't start in temps below 0F without outside help.
IIRC … you ran 5w20 regular M1 for a very long time after fighting some 10w40 ~ and until not long ago …
Now seeing the 0w20 EP in signature … that seems like the best bang for the buck … and ironically M1 AP helped point that out … so it’s in my new motor already …
Originally Posted By: MParr
I wonder how folks got by before the 5Wxx or 0Wxx oils hit the market? You are more likely to blow a freeze plug before hurting your engine running 10W30 conventional oil.
Frankly, at times we didn't get along very well. I remember in the late 50s and early 60s a lot of engines just wouldn't start in temps below 0F without outside help.
IIRC … you ran 5w20 regular M1 for a very long time after fighting some 10w40 ~ and until not long ago …
Now seeing the 0w20 EP in signature … that seems like the best bang for the buck … and ironically M1 AP helped point that out … so it’s in my new motor already …
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: zeng
PYB 10W30 specs :
CCS @-25*C cP 6,200 (limit 7,000)
MRV @-30*C cP 23,000 (limit 60,000)
Don't worry about oil pumping.
Leave it there.
There you go!
Hard to argue with facts.
Just to add to the conversation...here's the 1975 J300 W grading system.
Note that all the grades were tested at 0F, and it was simply viscosity...if the oil gelled at -25C, the test didn't show it at all, it was just inferred that it would do better colder.
A modern 10W is tested at -30C for pumpability (limit 60,000CP, which translates to about 15,000 at -20C which is MORE than a 20W of the day was allowed to have.
If you had to start at -30C in the 1975 J300 world, you had a dice roll as to whether your oil, 5W, 10W, or 20W would do the job.
The modern tests have a MUCH higher allowable viscosity...but are tested at actual temperatures for the grade, not one temperature and cross your fingers.
Just sometimes in these discussions people think that we are comparing apples and apples when discussing "W" grades.
Originally Posted By: zeng
PYB 10W30 specs :
CCS @-25*C cP 6,200 (limit 7,000)
MRV @-30*C cP 23,000 (limit 60,000)
Don't worry about oil pumping.
Leave it there.
There you go!
Hard to argue with facts.
Just to add to the conversation...here's the 1975 J300 W grading system.
Note that all the grades were tested at 0F, and it was simply viscosity...if the oil gelled at -25C, the test didn't show it at all, it was just inferred that it would do better colder.
A modern 10W is tested at -30C for pumpability (limit 60,000CP, which translates to about 15,000 at -20C which is MORE than a 20W of the day was allowed to have.
If you had to start at -30C in the 1975 J300 world, you had a dice roll as to whether your oil, 5W, 10W, or 20W would do the job.
The modern tests have a MUCH higher allowable viscosity...but are tested at actual temperatures for the grade, not one temperature and cross your fingers.
Just sometimes in these discussions people think that we are comparing apples and apples when discussing "W" grades.
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