Confused Over Oil Specs For Ford Raptor 3.5tt

[jbutch]

I also have a TGDI and have tried multiple oils, including GF5, E6 HDEO and C3 oils.

Here is the post with the latest UOA (Mobil ESP) as well as prior UOAs.

The trend I'm seeing is that both Mobil ESP 5w-30 and Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 had the best results by a good margin, they also are the only oils that stayed in the 30 grade, ALL of the GF5 oils sheared down to a 20 grade and had higher wear metals.

GF5 (Ressource Conserving SN) oils cannot have a HTHS of 3.5 and up for fuel economy reasons. E6 and C3 oils have a minimum of 3.5 HTHS and these TGDI seems to really like higher HTHS.

Right now, in the sump, I have Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 for the cold Canadian winter, great HTHS of at least 3.5 and easy to flow in cold temps

Rotella Multi vehicle is SN Plus but both Mobil ESP and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 has around 1700 ppm of calcium which is a tad more than the 1400 ppm limit for it to be SN Plus. But I still run it with confidence since it's close.

Keep in mind that the goal that GF5 and Ressource Conserving is mostly aiming for is fuel efficiency. ACEA C3 and E6 (dual rated) is mostly for less wear with a bit of a hit on MPG (very slightly).

 

[Shrike9]

Where can I find the HTHS and other oil specs of Ford Motorcraft 5W-30 - Synthetic Blend oil, been looking for those to compare and can not find it anywhere.

 

[jbutch]

Originally Posted by Shrike9
Where can I find the HTHS and other oil specs of Ford Motorcraft 5W-30 - Synthetic Blend oil, been looking for those to compare and can not find it anywhere.


They are not explicitly listed on PDS, only a few manufacturers does and not on all their products.

Anything with a ACEA cert is easier since some certs has a minimum HTHS.

C3 is 3.5 HTHS minimum and E6 as well.

You could email the blender, but I doubt you'll get an answer.

SN has a minimum of 2.9 HTHS if I remember correctly and most GF5 oils with be very close to that to squeeze out every 0.001% additional MPG for CAFE ratings.

 

[Shrike9]

Originally Posted by jbutch
I also have a TGDI and have tried multiple oils, including GF5, E6 HDEO and C3 oils.

Here is the post with the latest UOA (Mobil ESP) as well as prior UOAs.

The trend I'm seeing is that both Mobil ESP 5w-30 and Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 had the best results by a good margin, they also are the only oils that stayed in the 30 grade, ALL of the GF5 oils sheared down to a 20 grade and had higher wear metals.

GF5 (Ressource Conserving SN) oils cannot have a HTHS of 3.5 and up for fuel economy reasons. E6 and C3 oils have a minimum of 3.5 HTHS and these TGDI seems to really like higher HTHS.

Right now, in the sump, I have Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 for the cold Canadian winter, great HTHS of at least 3.5 and easy to flow in cold temps

Rotella Multi vehicle is SN Plus but both Mobil ESP and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 has around 1700 ppm of calcium which is a tad more than the 1400 ppm limit for it to be SN Plus. But I still run it with confidence since it's close.

Keep in mind that the goal that GF5 and Ressource Conserving is mostly aiming for is fuel efficiency. ACEA C3 and E6 (dual rated) is mostly for less wear with a bit of a hit on MPG (very slightly).



The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know crap & am more befuzzled than ever in some aspects, but at least that's better in others and I've got a kindergarten level grasp of things lol

 

[NH73]

Originally Posted by Shrike9
Where can I find the HTHS and other oil specs of Ford Motorcraft 5W-30 - Synthetic Blend oil, been looking for those to compare and can not find it anywhere.

Proprietary information is what Ford will probably tell you. Blenders are bound by there agreement as well. But knowing that we are to use an ILSAC 5w30 oil and SN resource conserving oil, you can fully expect that the HTHS of Motorcraft oils going to be between 2.9 to 3.5. Someone will have a hard time to persuade me that the Motorcraft Synthetic blend is better than off the shelf full synthetic that meets the Ford specs. They would have to use that proprietary information that most can't get. So, stick to a full synthetic(with the Ford specs, if you don't want to void warrenty). and don't bother with any additives.

 

[Shrike9]

How does this oil stock up? It comes highly recommended on a Ford F-150 forum.

 

[donnyj08]

The shaffers product looks decent. It's not B-1 certified

IMO M1 5w30 is more impressive. Same HTHS, Better VI, better cold specs. Has ford B-1 spec.

There is usually minimal benefit to boutique lubes, they just cost more.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by Shrike9
Originally Posted by jbutch
I also have a TGDI and have tried multiple oils, including GF5, E6 HDEO and C3 oils.

Here is the post with the latest UOA (Mobil ESP) as well as prior UOAs.

The trend I'm seeing is that both Mobil ESP 5w-30 and Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 had the best results by a good margin, they also are the only oils that stayed in the 30 grade, ALL of the GF5 oils sheared down to a 20 grade and had higher wear metals.

GF5 (Ressource Conserving SN) oils cannot have a HTHS of 3.5 and up for fuel economy reasons. E6 and C3 oils have a minimum of 3.5 HTHS and these TGDI seems to really like higher HTHS.

Right now, in the sump, I have Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 for the cold Canadian winter, great HTHS of at least 3.5 and easy to flow in cold temps

Rotella Multi vehicle is SN Plus but both Mobil ESP and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 has around 1700 ppm of calcium which is a tad more than the 1400 ppm limit for it to be SN Plus. But I still run it with confidence since it's close.

Keep in mind that the goal that GF5 and Ressource Conserving is mostly aiming for is fuel efficiency. ACEA C3 and E6 (dual rated) is mostly for less wear with a bit of a hit on MPG (very slightly).



The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know crap & am more befuzzled than ever in some aspects, but at least that's better in others and I've got a kindergarten level grasp of things lol


It's easy to get lost in this stuff. At the end of the day your truck will go 200k+ with any plain jane $22 per jug synthetic meeting the -B1 spec. Change at like 5-7k interval and you'll be just fine. The rest is really just splitting hairs. I'd probably use regular M1 myself, or maybe ESP if I planned on really being out on the trails a lot in hot weather or something. Other than that it's really overthinking it. The only thing I will add is I would probably avoid PP because for a 5w30, it is really thin, almost a 20 weight. Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, QS, good to go.

 

[Shrike9]

Originally Posted by donnyj08
The shaffers product looks decent. It's not B-1 certified

IMO M1 5w30 is more impressive. Same HTHS, Better VI, better cold specs. Has ford B-1 spec.

There is usually minimal benefit to boutique lubes, they just cost more.

Gotcha, makes sense thanks.

Big thing I about this oil is a grease monkey carries it where the daughter lives and she has a 2017 (Feb build) F150 with the 3.5tt & has been going to the dealer for oil changes, nobody in her town does M1 & trying to talk her into buying it and go somewhere to have it changed won't go very far as she's all about pulling in and having it done fast and easy.

 

[Impatient]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by Shrike9
Originally Posted by jbutch
I also have a TGDI and have tried multiple oils, including GF5, E6 HDEO and C3 oils.

Here is the post with the latest UOA (Mobil ESP) as well as prior UOAs.

The trend I'm seeing is that both Mobil ESP 5w-30 and Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 had the best results by a good margin, they also are the only oils that stayed in the 30 grade, ALL of the GF5 oils sheared down to a 20 grade and had higher wear metals.

GF5 (Ressource Conserving SN) oils cannot have a HTHS of 3.5 and up for fuel economy reasons. E6 and C3 oils have a minimum of 3.5 HTHS and these TGDI seems to really like higher HTHS.

Right now, in the sump, I have Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 for the cold Canadian winter, great HTHS of at least 3.5 and easy to flow in cold temps

Rotella Multi vehicle is SN Plus but both Mobil ESP and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 has around 1700 ppm of calcium which is a tad more than the 1400 ppm limit for it to be SN Plus. But I still run it with confidence since it's close.

Keep in mind that the goal that GF5 and Ressource Conserving is mostly aiming for is fuel efficiency. ACEA C3 and E6 (dual rated) is mostly for less wear with a bit of a hit on MPG (very slightly).



The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know crap & am more befuzzled than ever in some aspects, but at least that's better in others and I've got a kindergarten level grasp of things lol


It's easy to get lost in this stuff. At the end of the day your truck will go 200k+ with any plain jane $22 per jug synthetic meeting the -B1 spec. Change at like 5-7k interval and you'll be just fine. The rest is really just splitting hairs. I'd probably use regular M1 myself, or maybe ESP if I planned on really being out on the trails a lot in hot weather or something. Other than that it's really overthinking it. The only thing I will add is I would probably avoid PP because for a 5w30, it is really thin, almost a 20 weight. Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, QS, good to go.


Strike, I like the posts I just quoted here. I don't have a Raptor with gen2 motor, but I do have a 2015 3.5 EB. It seems to run fine, and is still under warranty (theoretically). Yet, the results of a UOA showed trouble brewing, and some advice I paid a real oil expert for convinced me to look beyond Motorcraft and Pennzoil. Unfortunately that expert isn't pointing me toward M1 or Castrol, or Valvoline either. The dealer shrugged, saying "no codes, and you say it runs fine?: so no Ford remediation."

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, search on UOA's and VOA's, either by the oil you are interested in, or by the motor you have (for instance, you could search the UOA forum for 3.5EB Pennzoil Platinum...or maybe don't abbreviate EcoBoost). You'll read about TBN, viscosity, wear metals, etc; of course there will be a lot of BS. A lot! Rightly or wrongly, I've zoomed in on an oil's HTHS results, which are not in UOA's or VOA's, but sometimes in the oil's PDS (product data sheet); so you could also search on HTHS discussions or go to Castrol or Mobil's or Amsoil's (etc) PDS pages. I may be wrong but a turbo environment seems all about High Temp High Shear (HTHS). Latest oils struggle between protection and fuel economy. The industry specs appear to allow less-than-exceptional HTHS protection, in the search for an extra 0.2 mpg. I'm a tree hugger, so it pains me to say, scruuu the extra 0.2 mpg; but what's important is the health of your engine. Yes, most modern oils protect better than most 10 year old oil's, but more effort went into the fuel economy aspect. Don't go berserk and start modifying exhaust and removing cats (please), but realize there are oils which won't eff up your cats, provide superior protection against wear and crud, but exceed (in a so-called "bad" way) the limitations imposed by SN+ and Ford specs. So when an oil claims to "exceed" Ford specs, what exactly do they mean? Fortunately some of the oils folks here are recommending exceed in a good way.

If there were 4 used Raptors for sale, all driven the same miles and maintained via the same schedule, but one exclusively used Motorcraft, the 2nd used 5w30 M1, and the 3rd used Rotella MultiVehicle 5w30, the 4th used some euro oil (0w40 or M1 ESP for example), I would probably choose #3 or #4, least interested in #1...all else being equal. Certain exceptions apply. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Shrike9]

Originally Posted by Impatient
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by Shrike9
Originally Posted by jbutch
I also have a TGDI and have tried multiple oils, including GF5, E6 HDEO and C3 oils.

Here is the post with the latest UOA (Mobil ESP) as well as prior UOAs.

The trend I'm seeing is that both Mobil ESP 5w-30 and Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 had the best results by a good margin, they also are the only oils that stayed in the 30 grade, ALL of the GF5 oils sheared down to a 20 grade and had higher wear metals.

GF5 (Ressource Conserving SN) oils cannot have a HTHS of 3.5 and up for fuel economy reasons. E6 and C3 oils have a minimum of 3.5 HTHS and these TGDI seems to really like higher HTHS.

Right now, in the sump, I have Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 for the cold Canadian winter, great HTHS of at least 3.5 and easy to flow in cold temps

Rotella Multi vehicle is SN Plus but both Mobil ESP and Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0w-30 has around 1700 ppm of calcium which is a tad more than the 1400 ppm limit for it to be SN Plus. But I still run it with confidence since it's close.

Keep in mind that the goal that GF5 and Ressource Conserving is mostly aiming for is fuel efficiency. ACEA C3 and E6 (dual rated) is mostly for less wear with a bit of a hit on MPG (very slightly).



The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know crap & am more befuzzled than ever in some aspects, but at least that's better in others and I've got a kindergarten level grasp of things lol


It's easy to get lost in this stuff. At the end of the day your truck will go 200k+ with any plain jane $22 per jug synthetic meeting the -B1 spec. Change at like 5-7k interval and you'll be just fine. The rest is really just splitting hairs. I'd probably use regular M1 myself, or maybe ESP if I planned on really being out on the trails a lot in hot weather or something. Other than that it's really overthinking it. The only thing I will add is I would probably avoid PP because for a 5w30, it is really thin, almost a 20 weight. Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, QS, good to go.


Strike, I like the posts I just quoted here. I don't have a Raptor with gen2 motor, but I do have a 2015 3.5 EB. It seems to run fine, and is still under warranty (theoretically). Yet, the results of a UOA showed trouble brewing, and some advice I paid a real oil expert for convinced me to look beyond Motorcraft and Pennzoil. Unfortunately that expert isn't pointing me toward M1 or Castrol, or Valvoline either. The dealer shrugged, saying "no codes, and you say it runs fine?: so no Ford remediation."

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, search on UOA's and VOA's, either by the oil you are interested in, or by the motor you have (for instance, you could search the UOA forum for 3.5EB Pennzoil Platinum...or maybe don't abbreviate EcoBoost). You'll read about TBN, viscosity, wear metals, etc; of course there will be a lot of BS. A lot! Rightly or wrongly, I've zoomed in on an oil's HTHS results, which are not in UOA's or VOA's, but sometimes in the oil's PDS (product data sheet); so you could also search on HTHS discussions or go to Castrol or Mobil's or Amsoil's (etc) PDS pages. I may be wrong but a turbo environment seems all about High Temp High Shear (HTHS). Latest oils struggle between protection and fuel economy. The industry specs appear to allow less-than-exceptional HTHS protection, in the search for an extra 0.2 mpg. I'm a tree hugger, so it pains me to say, scruuu the extra 0.2 mpg; but what's important is the health of your engine. Yes, most modern oils protect better than most 10 year old oil's, but more effort went into the fuel economy aspect. Don't go berserk and start modifying exhaust and removing cats (please), but realize there are oils which won't eff up your cats, provide superior protection against wear and crud, but exceed (in a so-called "bad" way) the limitations imposed by SN+ and Ford specs. So when an oil claims to "exceed" Ford specs, what exactly do they mean? Fortunately some of the oils folks here are recommending exceed in a good way.

If there were 4 used Raptors for sale, all driven the same miles and maintained via the same schedule, but one exclusively used Motorcraft, the 2nd used 5w30 M1, and the 3rd used Rotella MultiVehicle 5w30, the 4th used some euro oil (0w40 or M1 ESP for example), I would probably choose #3 or #4, least interested in #1...all else being equal. Certain exceptions apply. Your mileage may vary.

Ok, now my eyes are bleeding after reading more and more about oil specifications & it's just opening the door for more questions and head scratching Lol

I really don't care about mpg in a truck, for me it's more about reducing wear/tear and such when out abusing the truck in stupid hot weather or pulling a semi out of a snow bank in sub zero temps.....

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by Shrike9


Ok, now my eyes are bleeding after reading more and more about oil specifications & it's just opening the door for more questions and head scratching Lol

I really don't care about mpg in a truck, for me it's more about reducing wear/tear and such when out abusing the truck in stupid hot weather or pulling a semi out of a snow bank in sub zero temps.....


You just have to make a decision. If you don't want to worry about any warranty BS (and I don't blame you) just buy a good brand name synthetic with the B1 spec. Seriously you can just pick the one with the coolest label or bottle color and you nor the truck will ever know the difference.

If you are going to get into boutique stuff and not concerned about the B1 spec, I would just run ESP.

 

[donnyj08]

At the end of the day it's a depreciating asset. You have to ask yourself...what is this truck worth in 10 years? What's the value of a 200k+ mile truck? Will someone buying a 10 year old 200k mile Raptor care if you used a euro oil or Motorcraft every 5k? Doubtful..

The truth is when you're ready for a new one it won't matter a single iota if the truck was ran on OTC Castrol Edge for $22 a Jug or if it was ran on Boutique Redline oil.

The engine will sound the same and perform the same when you go to sell it or trade it. By then you won't care and neither will the owner who is buying a mostly worn out 200k mile raptor. The only thing that matters is that the oil was changed regularly.

We tend to overthink a lot here at BITOG. The reality is in 99% of usage the performance gap between ESP 5w30 and M1 SN+ 5w30 or EDGE is splitting hairs...especially in and engine that doesn't require anything better than a semi synthetic meeting the latest Ford Spec.

I realize this engine is "hi performance" but in 2019 nearly everything is Turbocharged, Direct Injected, and high compression as well. What we tend to forget is that modern SN+ oil is "hi performance" as well.

 

[SteveG4]

Originally Posted by donnyj08
At the end of the day it's a depreciating asset. You have to ask yourself...what is this truck worth in 10 years? What's the value of a 200k+ mile truck? Will someone buying a 10 year old 200k mile Raptor care if you used a euro oil or Motorcraft every 5k? Doubtful..

The truth is when you're ready for a new one it won't matter a single iota if the truck was ran on OTC Castrol Edge for $22 a Jug or if it was ran on Boutique Redline oil.

The engine will sound the same and perform the same when you go to sell it or trade it. By then you won't care and neither will the owner who is buying a mostly worn out 200k mile raptor. The only thing that matters is that the oil was changed regularly.

We tend to overthink a lot here at BITOG. The reality is in 99% of usage the performance gap between ESP 5w30 and M1 SN+ 5w30 or EDGE is splitting hairs...especially in and engine that doesn't require anything better than a semi synthetic meeting the latest Ford Spec.

I realize this engine is "hi performance" but in 2019 nearly everything is Turbocharged, Direct Injected, and high compression as well. What we tend to forget is that modern SN+ oil is "hi performance" as well.


!!!

+1

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Here... $17 a jug

https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Rotell...70178&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sr=8-82

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Here... $17 a jug

https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Rotell...70178&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sr=8-82




You can get that for free with rebate from autozone

 

[dave1251]

Indeed.

 

[Shrike9]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Here... $17 a jug

https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Rotell...70178&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sr=8-82




You can get that for free with rebate from autozone


How does one go about finding this rebate, when I was in autozone today they did not have anything posted & would have asked but they had 1 person working and between 5-7 people in line and asking questions, did not feel like waiting around....and can't find anything about it on line.

 

[Shrike9]

Originally Posted by donnyj08
At the end of the day it's a depreciating asset. You have to ask yourself...what is this truck worth in 10 years? What's the value of a 200k+ mile truck? Will someone buying a 10 year old 200k mile Raptor care if you used a euro oil or Motorcraft every 5k? Doubtful..

The truth is when you're ready for a new one it won't matter a single iota if the truck was ran on OTC Castrol Edge for $22 a Jug or if it was ran on Boutique Redline oil.

The engine will sound the same and perform the same when you go to sell it or trade it. By then you won't care and neither will the owner who is buying a mostly worn out 200k mile raptor. The only thing that matters is that the oil was changed regularly.

We tend to overthink a lot here at BITOG. The reality is in 99% of usage the performance gap between ESP 5w30 and M1 SN+ 5w30 or EDGE is splitting hairs...especially in and engine that doesn't require anything better than a semi synthetic meeting the latest Ford Spec.

I realize this engine is "hi performance" but in 2019 nearly everything is Turbocharged, Direct Injected, and high compression as well. What we tend to forget is that modern SN+ oil is "hi performance" as well.



Yep......that's why I went to auto zone to see what they had on sale or rebates and no mention of ither in store and could not find anything on line, so will check another autozone Monday when not so stupid busy as I've got about 2k miles to go before needing a oil change.

Figured to go with whatever the local shop stocked for easy of buying/access & they had M1 and M1 truck/suv, but not ESP in quarts and gallons & also had Rotella gas/truck in gallons and quarts...

 

[dave1251]

You have to buy the clearance oil before one of the managers realizes it's on clearance. If not he/she will hoard it for a friend and sell it long before most people here can read the post and go to AutoZone to purchase the clearance oil.