Confused about K&N
- Thread starter asiancivicmaniac
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So I guess the best mod would be to somehow adapt a larger OEM paper filter to a given engine.
Like somehow adapt the airbox from a Dodge Magnum to my V6 Camry.....
Like somehow adapt the airbox from a Dodge Magnum to my V6 Camry.....
I have had KN air filters on quite a few of my vehicles. None of them suffered a premature death, and in fact.......none of them used any oil when I got rid of them. Some of them had almost 200k when I got rid of them.
But I have to say that I never experienced any kind of MPG gain with a KN filter.
But I have to say that I never experienced any kind of MPG gain with a KN filter.
I noticed no gains in MPG or power when I had the reusable filters in my 5.3L Avalanche (used K&N, Green and AirHogg).
The likely truth is that very few of us will see any upside benefit or downside risk to using these filters.
Best of luck and happy 4th of July to all.
Bob W.
P.S. On the 4th I intend to raise a salute to Stinky Peterson, who was by all accounts an incredible fellow.
BW.
"I have had KN air filters on quite a few of my vehicles. None of them suffered a premature death, and in fact.......none of them used any oil when I got rid of them. Some of them had almost 200k when I got rid of them. "
SBC, I feel ya. Not only do the stock air box ones work great, but I have friends who take excellent care of there cars that have been using K&N typhoon and other intake kits. These kits make good high RPM power. I also hear alot of people saying that a K&N cant make power because more airflow would be balanced by the ECU or some BS. This is totally wrong.
K&N makes respectable filters, that filter so well for the ammount of air they can actually flow before becoming restrictive. For instance, if someone installed a super charger on a NA 4cyl, it would be crazy to keep a stock air box with paper filter in use.
K&N FOR LIFE OOOOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!! EEEE-HEEE!
SBC, I feel ya. Not only do the stock air box ones work great, but I have friends who take excellent care of there cars that have been using K&N typhoon and other intake kits. These kits make good high RPM power. I also hear alot of people saying that a K&N cant make power because more airflow would be balanced by the ECU or some BS. This is totally wrong.
K&N FOR LIFE OOOOOOOOOOOOWWW!!!!! EEEE-HEEE!
I doubt a Honda Civic can even pull enough air through any filter where a "low restriction" filter would give you better MPG.
Just look at the tail pipe. It's freaking an inch and a half wide, and that's a generous estimate.
Just stick to OEM filter or a Puralator, and save the $40 and buy some gas.
If you had a carb'd 350 SBC that was bored and stroked, sure, a K&N might help. That engine likes to breath.
On a Civic with less than 2.0 liter engine, c'mon, most guys who put on those coffee can mufflers and cold air intakes actually lose power.
It's a placebo effect.
Just look at the tail pipe. It's freaking an inch and a half wide, and that's a generous estimate.
Just stick to OEM filter or a Puralator, and save the $40 and buy some gas.
If you had a carb'd 350 SBC that was bored and stroked, sure, a K&N might help. That engine likes to breath.
On a Civic with less than 2.0 liter engine, c'mon, most guys who put on those coffee can mufflers and cold air intakes actually lose power.
It's a placebo effect.
In my motor a K&N will add a few HP but do nothing for mileage. 1 to 2% max HP improvement in the right intake along with the oil and dirt that comes with it wasn't worth it to me. Some of the extra power comes from running a bit closer to optimal mixure at WOT when the car is in open loop and normally somewhat rich.
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Well, I got a K&N to reclaim the air box space on my wife's jeep (to fit filter mounts). No this or that. My UOA's have no excessive sodium or other indicators that would lend any credence that K&N are inherently lousy at filtering air. No dirt inside the air tube ..and the throttle body is clean.
I think the only possible mpg gain could be from the micro-fractional hp that you save having to suck the air in to the engine. Otherwise it's all balanced out in closed loop ..or so I would reason. Then again, maybe a more restrictive filter simulates higher altitude..
I think the only possible mpg gain could be from the micro-fractional hp that you save having to suck the air in to the engine. Otherwise it's all balanced out in closed loop ..or so I would reason. Then again, maybe a more restrictive filter simulates higher altitude..
Islandvic, The people who loose HP from putting aftermarket products on there engine dont loose it because of the products, they loose it because they dont know how to build. The biggest mistake people do is take a small 4cyl and add a 3" cat-back system, loose all back pressure, and suffer the tq and hp loss. A CAI however, as a mod alone, at least AEM and K&N's systems almost ALWAYS make more high end power. And they wont make one unless it does free up power.
If k&n worked why wouldnt car makers put them in at the factory? It could be a cost issue but even at a 1 mpg gain I beleive many car and truck makers would spit out $40 for a K&N.
Chevy has a hybrid truck that only gets 2 mpg better than the gas version. If they could get another 1 mpg with K&N Im positive they would.
Keep in mind that hybrid version cost about$4000 more than the gas version.
Chevy has a hybrid truck that only gets 2 mpg better than the gas version. If they could get another 1 mpg with K&N Im positive they would.
Keep in mind that hybrid version cost about$4000 more than the gas version.
A CAI is more then just a filter. The act of removing a restrictive air box and supplying it with cold air is what make the power, not the filter. It just so happends that oiled filter makers have a great selection of clamp on cone filter to use.
I'd match my home made paper CAI up with a K&N unit any day.
I'd match my home made paper CAI up with a K&N unit any day.
Not to mention a K&N style filter made in numbers required to equip a whole fleet of vehicles would not cost nearly as much.
I'm sure the reasons why paper air filters are used from the factory is cost, no variable in quality by mis-oiling, ease of installation of paper, papers ability to aid in intake sound reduction, and possible problems with there MAF sensors.
Why would a car manufacturer deal with the headache of all that when the majority of motorists wouldnt care for a K&N or even know its under the hood? Why would the company pay more if no one gave a sh*t.
They leave it to the car enthusiest who wants to play around with the chance of better air flow and modds and such, but thats definately not the mainstream of drivers on the road, so no company is going to spend an extra dime. If they really wanted to add that 1mpg they could definately do it other ways, not that you would ever see what they show on the sticker in real life anyway.
Why would a car manufacturer deal with the headache of all that when the majority of motorists wouldnt care for a K&N or even know its under the hood? Why would the company pay more if no one gave a sh*t.
They leave it to the car enthusiest who wants to play around with the chance of better air flow and modds and such, but thats definately not the mainstream of drivers on the road, so no company is going to spend an extra dime. If they really wanted to add that 1mpg they could definately do it other ways, not that you would ever see what they show on the sticker in real life anyway.
Its never a question of if the technology really works, its always about $$ and the least cost, and time for the company.
Redwo-f---that's a great point. Another level of QC in the manufacturing process with the oily filter. Probably also messy, whereas a simple pleasted paper filter just drops in with no fuss no muss
I will post a UOA soon of my 04 4 runner with 5k on the OEM filter and 5k on a K&N drop in fitler. Depending on what it reads, I may switch back to oem toyota air fitler...only time will tell!
Then why make a hybrid version of the chevy silverado if a $30 K&N filter or some $5 cheap piece of stainless pipe would give the same results? Its a whole lot cheaper and less time consuming to buy a K&N filter than develop new technolgy and redesign a truck. Im sure the Technolgy K&N has is not a big secret why not just design their own filter and manufactuer it?Fram did it and a few others. Note that A hybrid version cost $4000 more.
I tried K&n with no positive results in fuel economy that I could tell long term.
[ July 10, 2005, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: goodoleboy ]
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I don't think that a K&N adds any hp at normal throttle positions. I wish they had differential guages that read in inches of water column (they are available ..but I've never seen them used in an automotive installation). Then you could see where one filter is superior to another. It's like a Borla exhaust system. Even on a 5.0 Mustang, the system yielded about 7-11 hp ...at some ungodly rpm. The curve pretty much contoured the OEM hp graph until you reached the limits of the OEM installation. This used to be posted on Borla's site (the dyno graph) ..but has since been removed.
Most OEM's now have CAI.
Sure they will make more hp ..but when are you gonna get to use it??
Most OEM's now have CAI.
Sure they will make more hp ..but when are you gonna get to use it??
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