Colt to file chapter 11

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Originally Posted By: billt460
Colt will continue business under Chapter 11. Just like so many of the airlines have. Colt has had horrible management for decades. They couldn't make money if they printed it.


Not without juicy government contracts for products that others make cheaper at the same level of quality (FN).
 
With how the collector market is, I would suspect there might be a pre and post bankruptcy line in collector value depending what the new management does wit the brand and products. Sort of similar to pre and post 64 Winchesters.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Not sure why my original post disappeared..........

It's hiding in plain site......
wink.gif


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...apter_11#UNREAD
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Colt has had horrible management for decades. They couldn't make money if they printed it.


That's a great quote and oh so true. If a gun maker can't be viable in the past 6-10 years or so, you have a problem. Doing business in CT can't be much of a help either, but that is a secondary issue if true.
 
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Don't they own diemaco? Or is that the other way around?
Far as I know, they bought Diemaco a number of years back. They still use the Diemaco name though.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Not without juicy government contracts for products that others make cheaper at the same level of quality (FN).


Colt's problem has never been it's products. It has been poor management. They make the 1911's and AR-15's that everyone else's are compared to and judged by. And have for decades. They are the Harley Davidson of their market. And like Harley Davidson, they floundered until they got better management, that emphasized what they were good at, and marketed it directly to the people who wanted it. Once they achieved that, they had people on waiting lists for their products..... All at handsome prices. The Japanese bike manufacturers had to slash prices to try and increase demand. They had unsold bikes stacked deep and cheap, while Harley could not make them fast enough.

Colt has to do much the same. That may prove difficult in todays market that has been over saturated with both product and buyers since 2008. Colt isn't the only gun company in this position at present. There will be others that may well disappear. Colt needs to concentrate on what it does best. Providing the best pistols, revolvers, and AR-15's on the market, to the people who are willing to pay for them. Everyone already knows and respects their name. They need the type of management that will live up to it like their products already do.
 
One of the problems that Colt has had to deal with is the high cost of unionized labor. The Colt workers are part of the UAW and Colt had signed a deal years ago that did not allow the company to replace union workers with non-union, or move to a right-to-work state. While a lot of their competitors are located in places like Florida or Arkansas, or do their manufacturing overseas, Colt was still doing most of the work there in Hartford with good ol' American labor. A few years ago when demand for Colt O-Series pistols was sky-high they were planning to expand to a new plant in Florida. They could have expanded with non-union labor as long as they didn't have any layoffs back in Hartford. However, the Florida expansion plans were scrapped for whatever reason.

Personally I love Colt stuff. But they've had a lot of problems over the years, both financial and otherwise. Fifteen years ago people were boycotting Colt because they dropped the double action revolvers and were going all-in for smart guns. When General Keys took over in 2002 it seemed like Colt's problems were in the rear view mirror. It's sad to see they're entering bankruptcy, but maybe that will allow the company to shed its union contract and move to a state where Colt is appreciated as a firearms manufacturer.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Of course S&W has the Chief Special now made of scandium and SS under $400.


Source? so I can buy one of those scandium chief specials for $400.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Colt eroded Colt's civilian AR market share. They were neutering civvy guns years before any laws came to be. Oddball pin sizes. Butchered BCGs.


Neutered civvy ARs is a myth. Colt runs one production line that military guns and civilian ARs come off of. They are all made to one standard and is proven so. The idea that Colt made "military" quality and "civilian" quality is entirely not true. All colt AR's are of the same very high-quality standard.


Um, go back and do your homework. Everything Hatt said was correct. Colt has in the past neutered AR-15's with stupid non-standard features such as oversize pins, sear blocks, screw in pivot pins, etc.

Non standard Colts below

standard.jpg

DSC07503copy.jpg


Colt butchered half circle bolt carrier group, prevents full auto conversion
ar15_newcoltcarrier.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Colt eroded Colt's civilian AR market share. They were neutering civvy guns years before any laws came to be. Oddball pin sizes. Butchered BCGs.

Anyway. The Colt name will surely live on. It'd be nice if some actual gun folks bought Colt and Marlin.


Neutered civvy ARs is a myth. Colt runs one production line that military guns and civilian ARs come off of. They are all made to one standard and is proven so. The idea that Colt made "military" quality and "civilian" quality is entirely not true. All colt AR's are of the same very high-quality standard.
It's a good rumor to start, though. Plenty of yahoos will buy into it. Colt ought to get the bleep out of anti gun Connecticut. wonder how soon the Army will start buying H&K?
 
Colt pulled an H&K and gave a big middle finger to the civilian market. Now their government contracts are all be awarded to FN.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Too many players in the global market that manufacture in the low wage countries of the world. Plus the US government offers no protection to gun makers so they slowly disappear and then they just close all imports. Thereby eliminating gun sales in the US.


Factually incorrect unless you call Belgian a low cost labor market, and skip the firearms industry boom that has occurred in the US in the last 10-15 years.

FNH out bid Colt no two ways about it. They build the same or higher quality weapons for the Army at a better price.

Colt like H&K has no one to blame for their financial troubles but themselves.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Colt eroded Colt's civilian AR market share. They were neutering civvy guns years before any laws came to be. Oddball pin sizes. Butchered BCGs.


Neutered civvy ARs is a myth. Colt runs one production line that military guns and civilian ARs come off of. They are all made to one standard and is proven so. The idea that Colt made "military" quality and "civilian" quality is entirely not true. All colt AR's are of the same very high-quality standard.


Um, go back and do your homework. Everything Hatt said was correct. Colt has in the past neutered AR-15's with stupid non-standard features such as oversize pins, sear blocks, screw in pivot pins, etc.

Non standard Colts below

standard.jpg

DSC07503copy.jpg


Colt butchered half circle bolt carrier group, prevents full auto conversion
ar15_newcoltcarrier.jpg



Correct Colt shot themselves in the foot in the AR market with the use of none standard pins. When 99.99% of AR's manufactured and their are a boat load of them use the same pins being different is just stupid.

But its a mute point, that's a [censored] market to be in anyway to many manufactures and to much supply.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Colt eroded Colt's civilian AR market share. They were neutering civvy guns years before any laws came to be. Oddball pin sizes. Butchered BCGs.


Neutered civvy ARs is a myth. Colt runs one production line that military guns and civilian ARs come off of. They are all made to one standard and is proven so. The idea that Colt made "military" quality and "civilian" quality is entirely not true. All colt AR's are of the same very high-quality standard.


Um, go back and do your homework. Everything Hatt said was correct. Colt has in the past neutered AR-15's with stupid non-standard features such as oversize pins, sear blocks, screw in pivot pins, etc.

Non standard Colts below

standard.jpg

DSC07503copy.jpg


Colt butchered half circle bolt carrier group, prevents full auto conversion
ar15_newcoltcarrier.jpg



I'm sorry I should have been more clear. When I said AR's I should have said their 6920's. There has been the myth that their 6920s have been built separately for military and civilian markets and that the quality is different. That is 100% false as a 6920 is a 6920 and Colt does not build different variations of them. This has been hashed out in detail and proven to be 100% correct that Colt does not vary the quality in the two markets.
 
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Originally Posted By: Chris B.


I'm sorry I should have been more clear. When I said AR's I should have said their 6920's. There has been the myth that their 6920s have been built separately for military and civilian markets
The 6920 isn't used by the military.



Quote:
and that the quality is different.
You may have heard that a couple times. What haven't you heard on the internets. It certainly isn't the prevailing thought. Colt quality is pretty respected everywhere I've seen.


Quote:
That is 100% false as a 6920 is a 6920 and Colt does not build different variations of them.
Never mind that the 6920 isn't used by .mil. Colt used large pins in the 6920 up until 6-7 years ago.


Quote:
This has been hashed out in detail and proven to be 100% correct that Colt does not vary the quality in the two markets.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Chris B.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Colt eroded Colt's civilian AR market share. They were neutering civvy guns years before any laws came to be. Oddball pin sizes. Butchered BCGs.


Neutered civvy ARs is a myth. Colt runs one production line that military guns and civilian ARs come off of. They are all made to one standard and is proven so. The idea that Colt made "military" quality and "civilian" quality is entirely not true. All colt AR's are of the same very high-quality standard.


Um, go back and do your homework. Everything Hatt said was correct. Colt has in the past neutered AR-15's with stupid non-standard features such as oversize pins, sear blocks, screw in pivot pins, etc.

Non standard Colts below

standard.jpg

DSC07503copy.jpg


Colt butchered half circle bolt carrier group, prevents full auto conversion
ar15_newcoltcarrier.jpg



I'm sorry I should have been more clear. When I said AR's I should have said their 6920's. There has been the myth that their 6920s have been built separately for military and civilian markets and that the quality is different. That is 100% false as a 6920 is a 6920 and Colt does not build different variations of them. This has been hashed out in detail and proven to be 100% correct that Colt does not vary the quality in the two markets.


The 6920 is a middle of the road AR for LEO not military. My BCM and LaRue are miles ahead of it in all areas.

Its just a meh rifle, nothing special but nothing bad either.

Still they use different pins which is a slight PITA if you want to swap out triggers.

The M16 is the military version and its an OK AR really, the FN versions are about the same. You can build a better AR though. Its an $800 rifle, and their is a massive gap between those and a $2k-$3k AR. Remember rack grade accuracy is around 2-4 MOA, a good AR is around 1 MOA or less.

You put a Noveske alongside a rack army M16 or a 6920 for that matter and the Noveske is leaps and bonds better. More so since the army won't allow the use of Pmags, so they are stuck running 20th century tech, aluminum mags.

Their are different grades of AR's like everything and Colt's rifles are nothing really special. Its not a bad rifle in any way it just won't wow you the way the really nice AR's do.

But as I said above if I were turning around Colt I would not worry about the AR market. Its saturated and they can't do anything a bunch of other companies are not already doing. I'd concentrate on its heritage. Although Uberti is already making most of their revolvers and doing a pretty good job of it. The 1911 market is just as saturated as the AR market and Colt's 1911's have not been anything to write home about for a long time.
 
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