Clearing up some SN PLUS questions

[wemay]

Some have wondered if SN PLUS isn't just another version of dexos1Gen2. It is not...

SN PLUS is fine for any vehicle but like d1G2, is primarily aimed at resolving LSPI found in turbocharged low displacement Direct Injection vehicles. It differs from d1G2 in that it isn't restriced to GM recommended 0W-20 and 5W-30, or 5W-20(some brands) and 0W-30 nor does it address timing chain wear as does d1G2. It will include 10W-30, and some (like Valvoline) include their "entire gasoline PCMO line of products"...yes, even Conventional VWB. Others might be just as inclusive but you'd have to visit the specific websites.

SN PLUS will displayed inside the donut on the rear of the bottles as seen below. Many oils already meet this supplemental spec but have yet to be labelled as such.

For example:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?media/33495/



https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...3&WT.srch=1

 

[53' Stude]

Wemay: thanks for this info. I appreciate it

 

[nap]

Assuming you have an older naturally aspirated port injection engine where the manual is recommending API SL 5W30, would there be any potential benefit in using SN plus vs SL?

 

[PimTac]

Thanks for this Wemay. I had thought SN+ was an addendum to d1G2. Your comment clears that up.


I do wish the industry would have made this simpler.

 

[Gokhan]

The only difference between API SN and API Plus is LSPI protection in the latter. Both can be conventional oil.

On the other hand, both dexos1 and dexos1 Gen 2 are superior to API SN, primarily in the base-oil quality (oxidation resistance and NOACK volatility). They require synthetic or perhaps at least semisynthetic. dexos1 Gen 2 has LSPI protection and timing-chain-wear protection included. That's why dexos1 Gen 2 oils already meet API SN Plus (LSPI protection already included).

 

[Crispysea]

Did anyone else notice 5w-16 in the list? That’s something new.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Some have wondered if SN PLUS isn't just another version of dexos1Gen2. It is not...

SN PLUS is fine for any vehicle but like d1G2, is primarily aimed at resolving LSPI found in turbocharged low displacement Direct Injection vehicles. It differs from d1G2 in that it isn't restriced to GM recommended 0W-20 and 5W-30, or 5W-20 (some brands) and 0W-30 nor does it address timing chain wear as does d1G2. It will include 10W-30, and some (like Valvoline) include their "entire gasoline PCMO line of products"...yes, even Conventional VWB. Others might be just as inclusive but you'd have to visit the specific websites.


What source says that that SN PLUS doesn't address timing chain wear as does D1G2?

I picked up some 5W-30 Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic last week, and it says it meets D1G2 on the front of the bottle, but doesn't say anything on the bottle about SN PLUS. However, the Valvoline spec sheet shows it meets both.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any info that says D1G2 and SN PLUS are different specs.

 

[PimTac]

You might have gotten a older bottle that does meet SN+ but doesn’t have it printed yet.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
You might have gotten a older bottle that does meet SN+ but doesn’t have it printed yet.


The bottles have date code D0518H3, which I think is April 05, 2018. D = April.

I'm wondering if an oil meeting Dexo1, Gen 2 means it also meets SN PLUS. If not, what source says otherwise?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: PimTac
You might have gotten a older bottle that does meet SN+ but doesn’t have it printed yet.


The bottles have date code D0518H3, which I think is April 05, 2018. D = April.

I'm wondering if an oil meeting Dexo1, Gen 2 means it also meets SN PLUS. If not, what source says otherwise?




This was my confusion as well. I thought the new dexos versions were GovMo’s impatience waiting for the API. Then SN+ followed. With wemay’s comment it seems the two certifications overlap.

Early on, Valvoline had the new d1G2 license numbers on their bottles but they were not labeled with the updated dexos logo. I think the bottle timelines didn’t match the product inside but they got around it for that short period of time. Just as now, many oil companies are producing SN+ oil but they couldn’t affix the new API label until after a certain date.

 

[Vuflanovsky]

That's an interesting question because I notice that the recent QSUD specs/formulations ( along with PP apparently ) are different than previous. The quarts and jugs on the shelf I see are from March and April and SOPUS tells me the grade of QSUD I use is already D1G2 and SN Plus rated...but do I assume that the newer formulation coincides with the May date they can legally include SN Plus in the donut ( since the new PDS is dated May )...or has this formulation been changed and produced prior to the legal date of listing SN Plus on the bottle??

I guess I'd have to compare license numbers on the bottles...but if this was a switch over that happened in early May then they're not in the stores yet as far as I'm seeing. I'm much more interested in the spec change than the SN Plus element specifically, but I just wonder if that coincides or not.

 

[PimTac]

My best guess here is that if the oil companies had followed the regulations to the letter it would have led to shortages of products. As far as I know they don’t turn off one spigot and turn another one on.

 

[bbhero]

Zee0six API SN Plus is the basic API specification.

Dexos gen 2 is a specification put up by GM. Which is a "harder/higher" level spec to meet than the baseline API SN. Just like MB 229.5 is a private spec made by MB that has much more rigorous testing than basic API SN to ensure proper protection for their cars.


I would say that a Dexos gen 2 oil would exceed all of the API SN Plus testing standards. Just like Dexos gen 1 exceeded all of the basic API SN, ILSAC GF-5 testing results.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Zee0six API SN Plus is the basic API specification.

Dexos gen 2 is a specification put up by GM. Which is a "harder/higher" level spec to meet than the baseline API SN. Just like MB 229.5 is a private spec made by MB that has much more rigorous testing than basic API SN to ensure proper protection for their cars.


I would say that a Dexos gen 2 oil would exceed all of the API SN Plus testing standards. Just like Dexos gen 1 exceeded all of the basic API SN, ILSAC GF-5 testing results.



Most of the oils are now meeting both d1G2 and SN+. So it’s easy to have the best of both worlds.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah that is true indeed PimTac. The synthetic blend oils will mostly meet API SN Plus with maybe just a few of them meeting Dexos gen 2 as well. And synthetic blend means oils like Valvoline white bottle, Havoline DS, Chevron Supreme, Mobil Super etc..

 

[wemay]

SN PLUS

https://fuelsandlubes.com/api-proposes-m...lus-supplement/

The addition of the Sequence IX LSPI test to API SN and modified Donuts, which have been approved and are shown here, are the only direct changes being made in this supplemental category called API SN Plus.

Ferrick told F&L Asia that the API Lubricants Group is currently balloting the proposed first licensing date.

The following is the proposed “user language” for API SN Plus:

API Service Category SN engine oils that also carry the classification SN PLUS are formulated to provide API SN performance and additional protection against low-speed pre-ignition for turbocharged direct injection gasoline-powered vehicles.

..................................................
dexos1Gen2

Versus GM dexos1Gen2 with four new tests...

https://noln.net/2017/06/30/new-generation-dexos-acea-specifications/

Dexos1 Gen 2
The most current dexos1 specification (dexos1 Gen 2) was released in 2015 to provide even higher engine performance and protection, particularly low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) protection in small displacement turbo-charged engines.

GM has developed four new engine tests for this updated specification:

New General Motors Oxidation & Deposit Test (GMOD) verifies the improved oxidation and deposit control characteristics.

New Stochastic Pre-ignition Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and pre-ignition concerns.

New Turbocharger Deposit Test verifies the added protection for turbocharged engines and minimizes deposit formation, which ensures optimal performance during engine life.

New Aeration Test (bubble control) ensures the air bubbles in the oil dissipate quickly to improve oil performance.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Zee0six API SN Plus is the basic API specification.

Dexos gen 2 is a specification put up by GM. Which is a "harder/higher" level spec to meet than the baseline API SN. Just like MB 229.5 is a private spec made by MB that has much more rigorous testing than basic API SN to ensure proper protection for their cars.

I would say that a Dexos gen 2 oil would exceed all of the API SN Plus testing standards. Just like Dexos gen 1 exceeded all of the basic API SN, ILSAC GF-5 testing results.

Most of the oils are now meeting both d1G2 and SN+. So it’s easy to have the best of both worlds.


bbhero ... thanks for the info. So sounds like Dexos1 Gen2 will automatically ensure it's also SN PLUS. But it's possible to have an SN PLUS that doesn't meet D1G2 ... but only maybe meets only D1, or maybe doesn't meet D1 either (?).

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Zee0six API SN Plus is the basic API specification.

Dexos gen 2 is a specification put up by GM. Which is a "harder/higher" level spec to meet than the baseline API SN. Just like MB 229.5 is a private spec made by MB that has much more rigorous testing than basic API SN to ensure proper protection for their cars.

I would say that a Dexos gen 2 oil would exceed all of the API SN Plus testing standards. Just like Dexos gen 1 exceeded all of the basic API SN, ILSAC GF-5 testing results.

Most of the oils are now meeting both d1G2 and SN+. So it’s easy to have the best of both worlds.


bbhero ... thanks for the info. So sounds like Dexos1 Gen2 will automatically ensure it's also SN PLUS. But it's possible to have an SN PLUS that doesn't meet D1G2 ... but only maybe meets only D1, or maybe doesn't meet D1 either (?).


Correct. Foe example, Valvoline Conventional meets SN Plus (per TDS) but not d1G2.

 

[bbhero]

Right on Wemay.

My VWB is exactly what you say that it is. API SN Plus only. Not Dexos gen 2 approved.

And my Valvoline Advanced full synthetic will be in all reality good for both API SN Plus and obviously Dexos gen 2 as well.



No problem Zee0six. You gonna do very good with a oil that is Dexos gen 2 approved.

 

[PimTac]

Thanks to everyone, this thread has been very informative and civil.