you should have slack in the cable, enough that you get 3mm between the lever and perch without using any force. that is what is meant by "freeplay".
"Cleaning" a wet clutch
- Thread starter CheezWhiz
- Start date
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There is an adjustment at the clutch it self on the bikes I have owned.
Cheezwhiz,
Here is the deal...you have a clutch problem. That is apparent.
You are only kidding yourself to sit around and make up scenarios, or to ask the opinion of others on what their assumptions are.
I highly doubt, to a point that I would bet cold hard cash on it, that there isn't a problem that was caused by ANY oil that the previous owner put in the bike, as long as it was the correct type of serviceable oil, and not something bad for a motor application such as hypoid gear oil.
I don't care how many will chime in and back up the classic "car oil has moly and will make your clutch slip" rhetoric, it simply doesn't happen. And I would challenge ANY of these myth passers, to try ANY Xw-30 EC rated that exists on Walmarts shelf, in ANY "new" wet clutch bike. They will experience NO trouble with any of the properly adjusted clutches. None.
The problem exists in the components of the clutch mechanism.
And your manual("service" not "owners") gives you detailed instructions on how to check the components, and numbers to let you know what the specified range of measurement is for serviceable parts. Sacked out springs, worn plates, and notched clutch baskets are very common causes of a differing feel, or declining usability, of the clutch. Notched baskets and slightly bent shifting forks can be notorious for change in how it shifts.
IMO, a used bike needs to be gone over by the new owner. Checking all the parts to the manuals numbers to see if they are still in spec. If not, then you know exactly what to fix first.
Many times riders will have a funny feeling coming on with their clutch, and they will most always blame the oil first, if they possibly can. Besides, myth passers back up their fears of "bad" for bike oils all the time, which makes it easy to jump on that bandwagon.
But in my experience, each and every time I have ever been involved with a bike wet clutch issue, the root cause has never been serviceable oil. Oh yeah, I have seen clutch plates glazed up and burnt blue, and it may well have been the oil at the root. But in these instances it will always be that the rider simply was not performing his OCI's in a timely manner, and was running sludgy goo for engine oil.
I realize you say that your clutch is harder to work on than others, that may well be, but it surely can't be too much harder.
I would suggest cutting to the chase and go ahead and purchase a new pack of proper clutch plates and new springs. Set out to install them, and check everything else you can against the manual while there. You will find what the problem was, and even if you don't I bet your clutch will act like new with whatever oil you choose to run in it.
Here is the deal...you have a clutch problem. That is apparent.
You are only kidding yourself to sit around and make up scenarios, or to ask the opinion of others on what their assumptions are.
I highly doubt, to a point that I would bet cold hard cash on it, that there isn't a problem that was caused by ANY oil that the previous owner put in the bike, as long as it was the correct type of serviceable oil, and not something bad for a motor application such as hypoid gear oil.
I don't care how many will chime in and back up the classic "car oil has moly and will make your clutch slip" rhetoric, it simply doesn't happen. And I would challenge ANY of these myth passers, to try ANY Xw-30 EC rated that exists on Walmarts shelf, in ANY "new" wet clutch bike. They will experience NO trouble with any of the properly adjusted clutches. None.
The problem exists in the components of the clutch mechanism.
And your manual("service" not "owners") gives you detailed instructions on how to check the components, and numbers to let you know what the specified range of measurement is for serviceable parts. Sacked out springs, worn plates, and notched clutch baskets are very common causes of a differing feel, or declining usability, of the clutch. Notched baskets and slightly bent shifting forks can be notorious for change in how it shifts.
IMO, a used bike needs to be gone over by the new owner. Checking all the parts to the manuals numbers to see if they are still in spec. If not, then you know exactly what to fix first.
Many times riders will have a funny feeling coming on with their clutch, and they will most always blame the oil first, if they possibly can. Besides, myth passers back up their fears of "bad" for bike oils all the time, which makes it easy to jump on that bandwagon.
But in my experience, each and every time I have ever been involved with a bike wet clutch issue, the root cause has never been serviceable oil. Oh yeah, I have seen clutch plates glazed up and burnt blue, and it may well have been the oil at the root. But in these instances it will always be that the rider simply was not performing his OCI's in a timely manner, and was running sludgy goo for engine oil.
I realize you say that your clutch is harder to work on than others, that may well be, but it surely can't be too much harder.
I would suggest cutting to the chase and go ahead and purchase a new pack of proper clutch plates and new springs. Set out to install them, and check everything else you can against the manual while there. You will find what the problem was, and even if you don't I bet your clutch will act like new with whatever oil you choose to run in it.
Oops...please pardon
Originally Posted By: Jaybird
Cheezwhiz,
Here is the deal...you have a clutch problem. That is apparent.
You are only kidding yourself to sit around and make up scenarios, or to ask the opinion of others on what their assumptions are...
I would suggest cutting to the chase and go ahead and purchase a new pack of proper clutch plates and new springs. Set out to install them, and check everything else you can against the manual while there. You will find what the problem was, and even if you don't I bet your clutch will act like new with whatever oil you choose to run in it.
+1
The friction plates wear, and the thickness of the clutch pack changes.
Buy OEM plates if they are still available. Yeah, they might be a bit more expensive, but they just last longer. We use OEM plates in the road race bikes. Occasionally, we'll get some slip when the engine is cool when it starts to rev out. You can't kid yourself, it's done.
Cheezwhiz,
Here is the deal...you have a clutch problem. That is apparent.
You are only kidding yourself to sit around and make up scenarios, or to ask the opinion of others on what their assumptions are...
I would suggest cutting to the chase and go ahead and purchase a new pack of proper clutch plates and new springs. Set out to install them, and check everything else you can against the manual while there. You will find what the problem was, and even if you don't I bet your clutch will act like new with whatever oil you choose to run in it.
+1
The friction plates wear, and the thickness of the clutch pack changes.
Buy OEM plates if they are still available. Yeah, they might be a bit more expensive, but they just last longer. We use OEM plates in the road race bikes. Occasionally, we'll get some slip when the engine is cool when it starts to rev out. You can't kid yourself, it's done.
20K, it likely needs a new clutch in it. 20K is a long life for a bike clutch.
"20K is a long life for a bike clutch. "
So those guys that go 100K or more are telling a lie when they say they haven't had the engine apart???
So those guys that go 100K or more are telling a lie when they say they haven't had the engine apart???
Yes, I'd have to say so. Who has had a bike clutch last 100K? Did it still function? Was it a motorcycle wet clutch? What do you mean when you say engine apart -- complete rebuild?
Motorcycle clutches are routine maintenance just like setting the valves, adjusting the chain and replacing brake pads.
Motorcycle clutches are routine maintenance just like setting the valves, adjusting the chain and replacing brake pads.
The 94 Ninja I bought last weekend only has 8700 miles on it and already slips. I'm tearing into it next weekend. Thankfully parts are cheap and the clutch is easy to access. I can't imagine a bike clutch lasting 100K now that I've seen what the discs look like.
there are numerous Gold Wings, and even many standard bikes on the road with over 100K.
Several Gold WIngs with over 200K and still the original clutch.
Of course, these bikes weren't abused like a lot of sports bikes are.
Several Gold WIngs with over 200K and still the original clutch.
Of course, these bikes weren't abused like a lot of sports bikes are.
I've got over 84,000 on my original clutch ('04 Honda VTX 1300 - cruiser).
I don't baby the bike either.
I don't think 100K is out of the question on some bikes.
I don't baby the bike either.
I don't think 100K is out of the question on some bikes.
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I still think new clutch springs would fix the problem. A lot of the guys I ride with have well over 60K and a few over 100K on original clutches. One guy I ride with has a first year FJR1300 (I think it's an '03) with over 70K on the clutch and he rides it fairly hard.
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If the clutch is anything like my Suzuki 1200 Bandit was, get the car oil out of there right away and put in come good MC oil. HDEO 15W-40 is good MC oil despite not having a picture of a motorcycle on the label and not requiring you to hold your ankles while you buy it.
I will 3rd or 4th going to slightly stiffer clutch springs if the oil and a proper clutch adjustment doesn't solve your problem.
I will 3rd or 4th going to slightly stiffer clutch springs if the oil and a proper clutch adjustment doesn't solve your problem.
Jaybird posts on more sites than just here. I trust his advice based upon what I have seen in the past from him. Good mechanics disagree on minor points but usually all agree on the major ones. I will have to say that my clutch was worn out due to me "ridin it like I stole it", not the oil.
hi-miler,
I'm just a regular schlub, it's just that my father put me on a mini-bike when I was 9 and it's been downhill since. I've seen it all I s'pose.
In my experience, the biggest problem folks have with bikes, is that they are lazy. It is much easier to point fingers, and have other lazy pals back you up, than it is to investigate the real deal behind failures. Failure forensics can be fun and very exciting, especially when you find out things you never even thought of before.
OffTopic abit....I see you are from Wylie. I did a job in Wylie one summer at a factory there. (can't remember the name of the place, but I debugged some machinery)
Anywho, I had a very good time in Wylie. Ate every noon at this great little restaurant with scads of fine and proper young ladies serving great sweet tea.
It was also the 4th of July during this time, and I found myslef involved with Wylie's street festival. Man what a great time.
Two-stepping with some very nice Tx ladies in the street. And I am a terrible dancer. They didn't seem to mind.
Great American town you live in there. Couldn't find a mean soul.
I'm just a regular schlub, it's just that my father put me on a mini-bike when I was 9 and it's been downhill since. I've seen it all I s'pose.
In my experience, the biggest problem folks have with bikes, is that they are lazy. It is much easier to point fingers, and have other lazy pals back you up, than it is to investigate the real deal behind failures. Failure forensics can be fun and very exciting, especially when you find out things you never even thought of before.
OffTopic abit....I see you are from Wylie. I did a job in Wylie one summer at a factory there. (can't remember the name of the place, but I debugged some machinery)
Anywho, I had a very good time in Wylie. Ate every noon at this great little restaurant with scads of fine and proper young ladies serving great sweet tea.
It was also the 4th of July during this time, and I found myslef involved with Wylie's street festival. Man what a great time.
Two-stepping with some very nice Tx ladies in the street. And I am a terrible dancer. They didn't seem to mind.
Great American town you live in there. Couldn't find a mean soul.
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Thanks Jaybird appreciate the kind words. We saved the mean stuff for the local politics, then after it was over we all used to go over to Chapmans Restaurant til it got blown away in the tornado. Nowadays we end up at Ballard Street Cafe for the sweet things in life. Kind of what it's about in the end, the sweeter things in life that is.
Keep riding and stay warm til the ponds thaw up there.
Steve
Keep riding and stay warm til the ponds thaw up there.
Steve
I was wondering who would take the challange on the energy conserving oil long term wetclutch test.
Sound like the perfect candidate to me, show your luv man!
Sound like the perfect candidate to me, show your luv man!
In my offroad bikes, which generally had the clutch slipped out of every corner, I used to go multiyear on orginal clutch with car oil dumping every 2 hours of ride.
I've only got about 100,000 street miles on 3 different bikes, but my last 2 bikes, at 40,000 mile the clutch was still good, and the one I have now at 35,000 mile the clutch is still flawless.
2 things that I find reduces clutch life, #1 not changing the oil, as the oil is what keeps the clutch free of debri, and that debri wears the clutch too, and using oils which provide the correct frictional properties and not engage in premature clutch slippage issues.
I've only got about 100,000 street miles on 3 different bikes, but my last 2 bikes, at 40,000 mile the clutch was still good, and the one I have now at 35,000 mile the clutch is still flawless.
2 things that I find reduces clutch life, #1 not changing the oil, as the oil is what keeps the clutch free of debri, and that debri wears the clutch too, and using oils which provide the correct frictional properties and not engage in premature clutch slippage issues.
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Hey! I'm fulla that stuff!
Think I'm stuck on the 20w-50. May try the 10w-40 in the Amsoil MC specific stuff, but pretty much I'm where I'm at. Just had a car accident, so I'm out of commission, but I am starting a mobile oil change business using Amsoil products. Things were just starting to pick up too! Using that as a criteria, bet you can guess what I'm recommending to all my customers for all of their needs.
Steve
Think I'm stuck on the 20w-50. May try the 10w-40 in the Amsoil MC specific stuff, but pretty much I'm where I'm at. Just had a car accident, so I'm out of commission, but I am starting a mobile oil change business using Amsoil products. Things were just starting to pick up too! Using that as a criteria, bet you can guess what I'm recommending to all my customers for all of their needs.
Steve
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