Chance to purchase WWII M1911

[Al]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Al
No one buys a WWII 1911 to shoot


While that may be true, there is no guarantee the one you wind up getting was ever used in, or even carried by a soldier in WW II. Or any other war for that matter. U.S. military bases are full of pistols that never make it beyond the gate.

Very True.
They will get pistols that were disassembled and parts from another pistol installed. As such they make no effort to insure the barel, frame, or slide were the original postol. Collectorj value = 0.

Some folks will just want a WWII 1911 just for the heck of it.

Some will actually shoot them bc they want the experience of firihg a 1911. Others will just shoot just like its any pistol.

For those that chose to shoot it..the frames were subject to stress crackikng. Especially with modern ammo.The only ones that are pretty good are the lateer Remingtons (circa 1944 to 1945).

I have a 1945 Remington. I jknow the history..who carried it and where he was. Its in very good condition. I obtained it fromn my daulthters old boyfriend. He had $100K worth of high class WWII stuff and this 1911 was so low on the jtotom pole that it was a shooter for him. I jfoolishly shot it a couple of times when I didn't know any better.

I paid $1000 for it. Today its worth $2500. It really is an heirloom.

Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Surely they'll release more information and introduce a tier system for the quality of the guns.
They'll also have to provide some sort of guarantee that the pistols they sell are safe to shoot.

Remember this is our inefficient Giberrnment.
If they do what you suggest, the cost (to the gubernment) Will be over $1000 per 1911. So will they still sell it for 1000. You bet.

 

[wkcars]

I'm gonna try and see if I can get lucky with getting one of these. It's vary rare to be able to get an actual military gun, like the M4 or M9 or p226 or other 1911s that has civilian versions for sale, these M1911 are actually coming from the military to be sold to the civilian market. May have to jump through hoops but I think it's worth it.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted By: wkcars
I'm gonna try and see if I can get lucky with getting one of these. It's vary rare to be able to get an actual military gun, like the M4 or M9 or p226 or other 1911s that has civilian versions for sale, these M1911 are actually coming from the military to be sold to the civilian market. May have to jump through hoops but I think it's worth it.


Your choice! You can buy a NICE used Gold Cup Trophy Colt or a new Stainless Ruger 1911 for LESS.

Maybe I'm not up to date with 1911 lore....What makes a Military 1911 that may be shot-out & made from 10 different guns worth more than a NICE civilian model?

 

[BrocLuno]

Cause it ain't civilian

 

[EdwardC]

Those CMP 1911s will come with a story behind it. The story won't be war related, rather, how you passed two NICS checks, snail mailed your paper application information (kids really won't understand this one), and were selected by a random number generator for your place in line to buy one.

That's way more interesting than saying, "I went to the gun store and got a good deal on a 1911".

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: EdwardC
Those CMP 1911s will come with a story behind it. The story won't be war related, rather, how you passed two NICS checks, snail mailed your paper application information (kids really won't understand this one), and were selected by a random number generator for your place in line to buy one.

That's way more interesting than saying, "I went to the gun store and got a good deal on a 1911".

 

[wkcars]

There’s probably people in states like ca that may try to get one since it’s classified as a historical gun.

 

[CT8]

Back in 1971 I bought a 1911 WWII from a roomy because he needed rent money. Its is a parts rebuild with a Colt frame and an Ithica slide. It shoots well and it is a keeper because of what is is. The pistol was accurized and reparkerized destroying its value. They weren't worth much back then. A Colt Gold Cup was around $175 dollars.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
........I'm sure they'll sell a ton at $1000.


If they do it will prove P.T. Barnum to be as accurate as you are.


Value is in the eye of the beholder. Its not your call if its "worth" $x; it is if people are willing to pay for it. Their reason is THEIRS to assign a value, and the foolishness in that is YOUR opinion.

My personal opinion is that a new Colt 1991 sure is nice for $799 retail... But again, that's my opinion...

Originally Posted By: Al

Some folks will just want a WWII 1911 just for the heck of it.


That's why I think they'll sell... Only time will tell if a rattletrap M1911 will be worth more or less than what CMP sells them for. Who knows...

 

[Robenstein]

I think I will just buy an Auto Ordnance and take of my glasses so I can't read the roll markings to tell the difference. Spend what I save on money. It is hard to do much with GI sights anyways.

 

[Panzerman]

I d never buy one for a $1000 and be afraid to shoot it.
Back in the day I bought a M1 Saginaw Carbine for $200 unissued still in grease. 1944. The surplus stores had tons. Winchester ones were $250.
I also bought a Star model B "08" pistol made for the Germans for $200 like new that I shot and still shoot.
This whole 1911 thing is overrated. There were so many better guns. I d buy one as a beater nothing more.
Used to be what surplus was before guns became a comodity.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Value is in the eye of the beholder. Its not your call if its "worth" $x; it is if people are willing to pay for it. Their reason is THEIRS to assign a value, and the foolishness in that is YOUR opinion.......Only time will tell if a rattletrap M1911 will be worth more or less than what CMP sells them for.


The problem with your assessment is that selling prices don't always determine actual value. Look at the housing market. Less than 10 years ago you had tens of thousands of idiots, who all stood in line with borrowed money to pay over 3 times what the homes they were buying were actually worth. They managed to crash the entire nationwide housing market as a result of their complete lack of understanding of value. It destroyed many banks and investment companies who were stupid enough to misjudge the value of what they were lending money to buy, just like the borrowers were. Because let's face it. Housing prices NEVER go DOWN.... Right?

Fast forward to this developing fiasco. Just because the CMP has managed hype this whole thing, and get everybody teased up and talking like a woman in a short skirt. And in the process have managed to find 10,000 equally foolish idiots to buy these overpriced rattletraps. Doesn't mean they've established an actual "value" in the 1911 pistol market. It just means they are good salesmen..... Just like the guy's who sold Yugo's, "The Pocket Fisherman", and the "Miracle Mop".

If the CMP can manage to dump 10,000 of these things on the market for $1K+, it's not going to take long for the people who bought these clunkers, to start showing up at ranges and gun shops. And after they've received enough smirks, shaking heads, and criticism over what they paid for them, the market will respond accordingly. Just as it did after the whole housing fiasco. With prices falling through the floor. So the whole, "Something is worth what someone will pay you for it", jingle will only work for so long, before the true reality of "value" rears it's ugly head.

 

[Panzerman]

You mean like everyone that was scooping up AR rifles for $800- $1200. They couldn't keep them in stock. Now they are $450 all day long.
But as long as idiots will pay it, they will sell it.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
You mean like everyone that was scooping up AR rifles for $800- $1200. They couldn't keep them in stock. Now they are $450 all day long.
But as long as idiots will pay it, they will sell it.


That's another good example.

 

[billt460]

It's a bit like when you watch these late night, or Saturday morning coin shows on HSN and the like. They've always got Morgan Silver Dollars, or some other supposedly "rare coin" by the truck load. And as always, there is some $250.00, 3 piece suited huckster, along with some painted up, tight skirted MILF telling everyone, "once these are gone, they're gone!".... Until the next truck load shows up..... Usually by the next Saturday, at an even better price.

It's no different than what the CMP is doing with these "rare" clunkers. Add in their "15 step purchase program", along with all of their, "Random Number Generators". Coupled with the rest of their silly sales antics. All in an attempt to make you the purchaser feel so privileged to even be able to get one, you'll forget all about the $1K+ you're parting with to get it. And unlike HSN, there is no refund policy if you're not satisfied.

Claiming "rarity", along with creating a false demand to increase prices is the oldest trick in the book. If these things were that "rare" to begin with, the CMP wouldn't be selling them by the truck load in the first place........ No more then the tag team over at HSN selling, "rare coins" by the pallet load every Saturday morning.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Value is in the eye of the beholder. Its not your call if its "worth" $x; it is if people are willing to pay for it. Their reason is THEIRS to assign a value, and the foolishness in that is YOUR opinion.......Only time will tell if a rattletrap M1911 will be worth more or less than what CMP sells them for.


The problem with your assessment is that selling prices don't always determine actual value. Look at the housing market. Less than 10 years ago you had tens of thousands of idiots, who all stood in line with borrowed money to pay over 3 times what the homes they were buying were actually worth. They managed to crash the entire nationwide housing market as a result of their complete lack of understanding of value. It destroyed many banks and investment companies who were stupid enough to misjudge the value of what they were lending money to buy, just like the borrowers were. Because let's face it. Housing prices NEVER go DOWN.... Right?

Fast forward to this developing fiasco. Just because the CMP has managed hype this whole thing, and get everybody teased up and talking like a woman in a short skirt. And in the process have managed to find 10,000 equally foolish idiots to buy these overpriced rattletraps. Doesn't mean they've established an actual "value" in the 1911 pistol market. It just means they are good salesmen..... Just like the guy's who sold Yugo's, "The Pocket Fisherman", and the "Miracle Mop".

If the CMP can manage to dump 10,000 of these things on the market for $1K+, it's not going to take long for the people who bought these clunkers, to start showing up at ranges and gun shops. And after they've received enough smirks, shaking heads, and criticism over what they paid for them, the market will respond accordingly. Just as it did after the whole housing fiasco. With prices falling through the floor. So the whole, "Something is worth what someone will pay you for it", jingle will only work for so long, before the true reality of "value" rears it's ugly head.


This pretty much sums it up. In addition, just like Mr. Panzer said, there used to be a lot of surplus that was new and unused. You could get said stuff for pennies on the dollar. These pistols are not just used, but used up. If you could get one for a couple hundred, as a display piece of some kind, okay ( I wouldn't). Now what is going to happen, is there will be one or two that are in better shape, someone will post a pic online, and people will think they are getting one of those. If a collector market starts up for these, maybe people can trade for them with their Beanie Babies they have stashed.
I shot quite a few of these in the mid-80's, before and during the M9 era, and they were all junk. I am a [censored] good pistol shot, and it was work just qualifying. They are just used up. The parts don't match so I don't know why they could honestly hold any collector value. There would be no continuity in trying to categorize them.

 

[billt460]

"It’s still being held up in political channels now, and we haven’t decided the specific method to distribute them, other than the general idea that there are approximately 100,000 pistols, and we’ll parcel out 10,000 annually. Pricing, Cooper said, is expected to be between $800-$1,000 for shooters. It’s hard to say exactly, but a good guess will be around $1,000 minimum, he said".

https://www.thegunwriter.com/23661/cmp-general-manager-can-expect-pay-surplus-1911/

The important thing to keep in mind, is the 10,000 batch is the FIRST one. There are going to be as many as 9 more "batches" of these things going on the market, until they achieve sell out at approximately 100,000 pistols. (Keep in mind that adds up to a bare minimum of $100,000,000.00 (read $100 MILLION), worth of guns).

So..... We've established the CMP is going to flood the 1911 market with "rare" used up, shot out, pieced together 1911 pistols...... One truckload at a time. And, as all of these truck loads of pistols are being processed, released, and finally dumped on to the market, the value of all of them will continue to rise. Because after all, there are only just so many truck loads of these beaters out there for the CMP to sell.

I like 1911 pistols the same as anyone. But how can people not see the lunacy in all of this, as it pertains to any of these things holding any type of value? Be it real or perceived.

 

[bigj_16]

In all honesty, if these were brand new, in cosmoline, fresh out of the crate, I wouldn't do it. All of the aggravation and timeline of the process would not make it worth it to me.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: billt460
"It’s still being held up in political channels now, and we haven’t decided the specific method to distribute them, other than the general idea that there are approximately 100,000 pistols, and we’ll parcel out 10,000 annually. Pricing, Cooper said, is expected to be between $800-$1,000 for shooters. It’s hard to say exactly, but a good guess will be around $1,000 minimum, he said".

https://www.thegunwriter.com/23661/cmp-general-manager-can-expect-pay-surplus-1911/

The important thing to keep in mind, is the 10,000 batch is the FIRST one. There are going to be as many as 9 more "batches" of these things going on the market, until they achieve sell out at approximately 100,000 pistols. (Keep in mind that adds up to a bare minimum of $100,000,000.00 (read $100 MILLION), worth of guns).

So..... We've established the CMP is going to flood the 1911 market with "rare" used up, shot out, pieced together 1911 pistols...... One truckload at a time. And, as all of these truck loads of pistols are being processed, released, and finally dumped on to the market, the value of all of them will continue to rise. Because after all, there are only just so many truck loads of these beaters out there for the CMP to sell.

I like 1911 pistols the same as anyone. But how can people not see the lunacy in all of this, as it pertains to any of these things holding any type of value? Be it real or perceived.


If you read through that article, the CMP manager is saying they are junk. Anything that would possibly be worth more is going to be auctioned off

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
If you read through that article, the CMP manager is saying they are junk. Anything that would possibly be worth more is going to be auctioned off


I think it's all going to add up to a big financial disappointment for people who buy these things. And the CMP had better be very careful. If they establish themselves as con artists, because people are complaining about what they're getting for what they are paying, they'll have a very difficult time trying to dig themselves out of that perception. Reputations once damaged, are hard to change. Especially with gun people. Look at Cheaper Than Dirt.