Ceratec and Mos2 Discussion

Messages
801
Location
AR
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Only thing getting 'swooshed' is the customer....out of the drain it goes, with the oil once it has done its whatever time-cycle.
 
Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
As Trav described to me what he found in his pan resembled silver Anti-Seize. It was not mixing in with the oil, even with swooshing, shaking, or otherwise. Granted his vehicle sat for long periods of time it proved the stuff does fall out of suspension, and what fell out of suspension remained out of suspension. Reason being he drove the car before dropping the oil pan. My thinking is if the product is used long enough in a vehicle that sits a lot of it will end up collecting at the bottom of the oil pan. But if a person sees value and believes there is a benefit with no downside in using this product, go for it. If you're looking to boost moly without fear of solids falling out of suspension, check out Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. Many people here swear by it. Happy Thanksgiving.
 
Messages
2,105
Location
Texas
I have been using Mos2 for over 30 years in a variety of different vehicles from different manufacturers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with it. When I took the oil pan off of my old Camry to reseal a leaking pan gasket, I didn't find any Mos2 settled in the bottom of the pan. I have also cut a few oil filters open and I didn't see any evidence of Mos2 collecting in them. To be fair, these are/were everyday use vehicles. Also, I don't use a full can of the product at every oil change, I treat with a full can at the first use and then add 1/2 can (5oz) at every oil change thereafter.
 
Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by wag123
I have been using Mos2 for over 30 years in a variety of different vehicles from different manufacturers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with it. When I took the oil pan off of my old Camry to reseal a leaking pan gasket, I didn't find any Mos2 settled in the bottom of the pan. I have also cut a few oil filters open and I didn't see any evidence of Mos2 collecting in them. To be fair, these are/were everyday use vehicles. Also, I don't use a full can of the product at every oil change, I treat with a full can at the first use and then add 1/2 can (5oz) at every oil change thereafter.
Trav's findings and pictures were of interest to me since two of my vehicles are not driven everyday. Based on that I came to the conclusion that if it was moly I was looking to boost, Biotech Engine Protectant was the way to go, for me.
 
Messages
2,105
Location
Texas
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Trav's findings and pictures were of interest to me since two of my vehicles are not driven everyday. Based on that I came to the conclusion that if it was moly I was looking to boost, Biotech Engine Protectant was the way to go, for me.
Two totally different kinds of moly that work differently in the engine.
 
Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by wag123
Two totally different kinds of moly that work differently in the engine.
Correct. According to Rosemill Industries, a mfg. and supplier of moly the better of the two [for an oil additive] and more commonly used in engine oil is the moly used in the Bio EP. I gathered a lot of info about moly years back when I was coating bullets and was in contact with them regarding this. We also discussed moly as an oil additive, they said MoS2 would fall out of suspension, and there were better choices. They were very helpful and informative. Search the archives there are others who had similar findings, and some posted pictures similar to Trav's with MoS2 in vehicles that weren't driven everyday. I saw pictures of cut open filters, it passes through, that wasn't the issue here.
 
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13,876
Location
...
The two moly formulas may work differently but they serve the same purpose. I agree with demarpaint. If I were to choose I would go with a soluble form of moly over a powder. The Lubegard Biotech has the soluble form and quite a bit of it to boot along with esters and boron. It's a intriguing product.
 
Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by PimTac
The two moly formulas may work differently but they serve the same purpose. I agree with demarpaint. If I were to choose I would go with a soluble form of moly over a powder. The Lubegard Biotech has the soluble form and quite a bit of it to boot along with esters and boron. It's a intriguing product.
thumbsup
 
Messages
146
Location
East Europe
As we know from the main page/ Moly basics on here, the falling out of suspension issue should have been fixed a long time ago. Hate to quote the "tests" is a soda bottle, where it goes back in suspension, but whats to say the thing on the bottom of the pan isnt plain sludge, especially on a higher mileage vehicle. I found a few UOAs showing it in suspension. Silver anti-seize could be moly or could be metal bits. I do agree that the newer organo-moly complexes are better than MoS2. These are hard to find where I am... Have seen enough good UOA's with MoS2, which is obviously in suspension to show on the sheet. Here is the first google result https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...flat&Number=2397032&#Post2397032 Happy Thanksgiving all !
 
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Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by DrDanger
As we know from the main page/ Moly basics on here, the falling out of suspension issue should have been fixed a long time ago. Hate to quote the "tests" is a soda bottle, where it goes back in suspension, but whats to say the thing on the bottom of the pan isnt plain sludge, especially on a higher mileage vehicle. I found a few UOAs showing it in suspension. Silver anti-seize could be moly or could be metal bits. I do agree that the newer organo-moly complexes are better than MoS2. These are hard to find where I am... Have seen enough good UOA's with MoS2, which is obviously in suspension to show on the sheet. Here is the first google result https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...flat&Number=2397032&#Post2397032 Happy Thanksgiving all !
A lot of good UOA's without it too. If you drive everyday and aren't concerned about the possibility some of it falling out and collecting in the bottom of the pan, by all means use it. Trav's engine had zero sludge in the pan, so that certainly wasn't the case. The purpose of this thread was to discuss the product, the good, the bad, and the ugly. That's what I'm doing. Yes happy Thanksgiving.
 
Messages
23,704
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase. Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.
 
Messages
146
Location
East Europe
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase. Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.
Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont. Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil. Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension. Happy Thanksgiving!
 
Messages
80
Location
USA
Seems like it comes down to...LM M0S2 is ok for daily driver since it won't fall out of suspension. LM M0S2 is a no go for vehicles that sit for weeks or months on end. Lubeguard Biotech if concerned at all about falling out of suspension or desire the different formulation. I've used both in daily drivers with no repercussions. I stress my experience is with daily drivers only. Good info as always on BITOG!
 
Messages
34,400
Location
NY
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase. Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.
Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont. Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil. Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension. Happy Thanksgiving!
The point is not all of it stays in suspension, what falls out stays out and collects and remains in the bottom of the pan. The longer you use the product eg: [add a bottle at each OCI] the more it will collect in the bottom of the pan in vehicles that aren't driven everyday.
 
Messages
23,704
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by DrDanger
Oil is getting swooshed in the pan. Sometimes more violent than others. Oil pressure was not the right word.
Look up windage tray, it is there to prevent the exact thing you mention. Small OPE engines and some old engines from the 30's and 40's that use dippers will have more turbulence in the crankcase. Once the MoS2 has settled it does not come out with the next oil change, it builds up on the bottom of the pan.
Looked up windage trays. Some cars have them, some dont. Looks like it is model dependent. How would the moly get out with an oil change if it is not carried/suspended by the oil. Check the UOA on the previous page - moly seems in suspension. Happy Thanksgiving!
Sometimes the gasket itself is acting as a windage tray. the point is without something to prevent turbulence from the pistons aeration can become an issue with dire consequences. Gasket.. [Linked Image]
 
Messages
146
Location
East Europe
Originally Posted by OS4A
Seems like it comes down to...LM M0S2 is ok for daily driver since it won't fall out of suspension. LM M0S2 is a no go for vehicles that sit for weeks or months on end. Lubeguard Biotech if concerned at all about falling out of suspension or desire the different formulation. I've used both in daily drivers with no repercussions. I stress my experience is with daily drivers only. Good info as always on BITOG!
Yes, can agree with that!
 
Messages
5,124
Location
Atlanta,GA
Would not use any of these products in any engine which has VVT. These systems typically contain fine mesh screens to filter out small solids. In addition I've yet to come across a compelling reason to use these products. Maybe 30+ years ago. After all has LM ever provided any studies on the effectiveness of these products in a modern engine?
 
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Messages
3,405
Location
Slovenia EU
According to BITOG...MoS2 (and MoDTC & Mo.... Even more?) has beneficial effects on (valve) chains... Thats why I am using Motul gearoil with MoS2 in my transmission case...and a tad of LM in oil of my yaris...
 
Messages
2,105
Location
Texas
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
According to BITOG...MoS2 (and MoDTC & Mo.... Even more?) has beneficial effects on (valve) chains... Thats why I am using Motul gearoil with MoS2 in my transmission case...and a tad of LM in oil of my yaris...
MoS2 should NOT be used in a manual transmission. It will cause the syncros to become non-functional. Get it out of there ASAP!
 
Messages
3,405
Location
Slovenia EU
Tnx...I know that... I meant transfer case...sorry "my misteyka"...wanted to say" in my tranny".....but that (could) sound so...odd smile
 
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