The first thing the cop should have done is approach the driver and asked for his ID. That would have given the driver the opportunity to hand the cop his CCW permit along with the ID, even if the cop told him to keep his mouth shut.
CCW holders and law abiding residents of Ohio
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JHZR2
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Agreed.
It appears to me Ohio needs to drop the "inform" part of the law. Had the officer done his job, he would not have been in the situation in which he was so angry over. The officer makes reference to this guy being stupid and not learning from the CCW class, but the same could be said of his own training.
Let's not forget that he is supposed to be the PROFESSIONAL here. The community and Ohio has imposed upon him a standard, rules, ethics, and are supposed to be entrusting him with the ability to do this job. He's failed rather fantastically at that and should be brought up on charges for making threats.
Let's not forget that he is supposed to be the PROFESSIONAL here. The community and Ohio has imposed upon him a standard, rules, ethics, and are supposed to be entrusting him with the ability to do this job. He's failed rather fantastically at that and should be brought up on charges for making threats.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
IS the driver stupid?
Maybe. The cops, both of them, certainly were.
You're not supposed to illegally search vehicles, which is what cop #2 appeared to be doing, as any basis for a warrantless search was not obvious to me, at least under my state's rules of procedure. And, legal or illegal, you darn sure don't do it with someone in the car. You get everybody out before you do anything, in case the guy sitting in the front seat has a gun, and doesn't like cops. Stupid is an understatement.
And it should go without saying you don't threaten to put a gun to a secured prisoners head, threaten to execute people and imply your cop buddy will lie about the circumstances, put lumps on an alleged hookers head if her and her pimp don't beat it, or tell a citizen you are going to violate his civil rights every time you see his car, and so much more.
I'm stunned this tape ever saw the light of day.
IS the driver stupid?
Maybe. The cops, both of them, certainly were.
You're not supposed to illegally search vehicles, which is what cop #2 appeared to be doing, as any basis for a warrantless search was not obvious to me, at least under my state's rules of procedure. And, legal or illegal, you darn sure don't do it with someone in the car. You get everybody out before you do anything, in case the guy sitting in the front seat has a gun, and doesn't like cops. Stupid is an understatement.
And it should go without saying you don't threaten to put a gun to a secured prisoners head, threaten to execute people and imply your cop buddy will lie about the circumstances, put lumps on an alleged hookers head if her and her pimp don't beat it, or tell a citizen you are going to violate his civil rights every time you see his car, and so much more.
I'm stunned this tape ever saw the light of day.
I finally watched the video.
It's pretty obvious that this kind of behavior in law enforcement is almost taught at the police academy now because so many officers are doing this kind of stuff.
The question is, what do we as law abiding citizens and gun owners do about it??? These officers basically did a number 2 and wiped with the constitution.
Is there a civil lawsuit or criminal charges up against the officer? As of now, he's on paid administrative leave (summer vacation essentially).
This kind of stuff outrages me so much I could.....well, I won't go there.
I hope the driver gets a GOOD lawyer, maybe a team of lawyers from the Ohioans for CCW or some other organization and takes this officer and the department to the cleaners.
That cop should have been fired ON THE SPOT simply for his conduct and language.
It's pretty obvious that this kind of behavior in law enforcement is almost taught at the police academy now because so many officers are doing this kind of stuff.
The question is, what do we as law abiding citizens and gun owners do about it??? These officers basically did a number 2 and wiped with the constitution.
Is there a civil lawsuit or criminal charges up against the officer? As of now, he's on paid administrative leave (summer vacation essentially).
This kind of stuff outrages me so much I could.....well, I won't go there.
I hope the driver gets a GOOD lawyer, maybe a team of lawyers from the Ohioans for CCW or some other organization and takes this officer and the department to the cleaners.
That cop should have been fired ON THE SPOT simply for his conduct and language.
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The cop acted poorly and out of control. Some of the things he said were absolutely unacceptable, and the fact that he lost his cool like that is unprofessional and unbecoming of a police officer.
That said,
-How do we know that the driver wasnt soliciting a prostitute and her pimp? Notice the mixed races in the car (nothing wrong in and of itself wrt that), and the fact that the officer mentioned that there is only one reason to be at those cross streets. Am I supposed to not believe that there is unsavory stuff going on there?
-The driver claims he knows the girl, and was driving around in the middle of the night looking for street sweeper truck phone numbers?!? An older man with at least one rider who was born in 1987??!? Quite an age discrepancy for them to be friends going on a night cruise.
-While the officers do not approach the guy for at least five minutes, there was apparently one officer IN the car for MANY minutes leading up to then. It looked like the officer was searching for contraband, and I think the video mentions that in text. Why didnt the driver have the sense to tell the officer entering the car that he has a CCW? IS the driver stupid?
-I can sort of see the officer's point that the one officer was IN the car, while this guy, who had questionable motives being there and then, is sitting with a gun in his belt, just a few inches from the officer's head. Now, anyone with any sense would realize that if this guy shot the officer in the car, his positioning is so poor that it is almost guaranteed that the other officer would be able to destroy the guy with the gun. But who knows the situation?
-The CCW holder was stupid, period. He did the right thing when approached, but the fact that there was another officer IN the car searching, and the guy didnt tell that officer the situation before that officer entered to search the car indicates to me that the guy has little sense. That said, based upon my limited number of traffic stops, Id have thought that the officer would have asked if there is anything that the guy needs to tell him or declare before he enters the car. Im assuming that the cop doing the search didnt offer up such a question.
So critical analysis of this indicates to me that the cop is wrong and the guy was stupid. They were both wrong, the guy wasnt given the time to talk at first before the cop blew up, but the guy had ample opportunity to disclose to the other officer.
Im all for the right people getting CCW. This gives a black eye to the holder as much as to the cop, IMO.
Wow! Fortunately you are not a cop, and I hope you don't vote.
The cop acted poorly and out of control. Some of the things he said were absolutely unacceptable, and the fact that he lost his cool like that is unprofessional and unbecoming of a police officer.
That said,
-How do we know that the driver wasnt soliciting a prostitute and her pimp? Notice the mixed races in the car (nothing wrong in and of itself wrt that), and the fact that the officer mentioned that there is only one reason to be at those cross streets. Am I supposed to not believe that there is unsavory stuff going on there?
-The driver claims he knows the girl, and was driving around in the middle of the night looking for street sweeper truck phone numbers?!? An older man with at least one rider who was born in 1987??!? Quite an age discrepancy for them to be friends going on a night cruise.
-While the officers do not approach the guy for at least five minutes, there was apparently one officer IN the car for MANY minutes leading up to then. It looked like the officer was searching for contraband, and I think the video mentions that in text. Why didnt the driver have the sense to tell the officer entering the car that he has a CCW? IS the driver stupid?
-I can sort of see the officer's point that the one officer was IN the car, while this guy, who had questionable motives being there and then, is sitting with a gun in his belt, just a few inches from the officer's head. Now, anyone with any sense would realize that if this guy shot the officer in the car, his positioning is so poor that it is almost guaranteed that the other officer would be able to destroy the guy with the gun. But who knows the situation?
-The CCW holder was stupid, period. He did the right thing when approached, but the fact that there was another officer IN the car searching, and the guy didnt tell that officer the situation before that officer entered to search the car indicates to me that the guy has little sense. That said, based upon my limited number of traffic stops, Id have thought that the officer would have asked if there is anything that the guy needs to tell him or declare before he enters the car. Im assuming that the cop doing the search didnt offer up such a question.
So critical analysis of this indicates to me that the cop is wrong and the guy was stupid. They were both wrong, the guy wasnt given the time to talk at first before the cop blew up, but the guy had ample opportunity to disclose to the other officer.
Im all for the right people getting CCW. This gives a black eye to the holder as much as to the cop, IMO.
Wow! Fortunately you are not a cop, and I hope you don't vote.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
The first thing the cop should have done is approach the driver and asked for his ID. That would have given the driver the opportunity to hand the cop his CCW permit along with the ID, even if the cop told him to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. I'm sure that's what the standard procedure is in those cases.
The first thing the cop should have done is approach the driver and asked for his ID. That would have given the driver the opportunity to hand the cop his CCW permit along with the ID, even if the cop told him to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. I'm sure that's what the standard procedure is in those cases.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
The first thing the cop should have done is approach the driver and asked for his ID. That would have given the driver the opportunity to hand the cop his CCW permit along with the ID, even if the cop told him to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. I'm sure that's what the standard procedure is in those cases.
I'm not a cop and I certainly don't know what the procedure is in that city, but I have been pulled over a time or two (yeah, more than that) and I've been on ride alongs and I've noticed one consistancy from all the Police...driver first. Approach the car, many cops touch the corner of the trunk on the way...(I don't know why,
they just do,) and position themselves by the B-pillar to give them a good view of the interior of the car while offering an angle that doesn't expose them to danger too much and then contacting the driver.
In the event that a person in the back seat is a known offender or wanted, they might secure him first. Then approach the driver. But, I never observed any officer in any department search a vehicle with occupants in it.
The officer in question behaved in an unprofessional manner. That's why I never joined the DPD in spite of my father's strong urging. I knew in the back of my mind that I might have lost it on some of the stops we made when I was on a ridealong and worked over some jerk with my MagLite.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
The first thing the cop should have done is approach the driver and asked for his ID. That would have given the driver the opportunity to hand the cop his CCW permit along with the ID, even if the cop told him to keep his mouth shut.
Exactly. I'm sure that's what the standard procedure is in those cases.
I'm not a cop and I certainly don't know what the procedure is in that city, but I have been pulled over a time or two (yeah, more than that) and I've been on ride alongs and I've noticed one consistancy from all the Police...driver first. Approach the car, many cops touch the corner of the trunk on the way...(I don't know why,
In the event that a person in the back seat is a known offender or wanted, they might secure him first. Then approach the driver. But, I never observed any officer in any department search a vehicle with occupants in it.
The officer in question behaved in an unprofessional manner. That's why I never joined the DPD in spite of my father's strong urging. I knew in the back of my mind that I might have lost it on some of the stops we made when I was on a ridealong and worked over some jerk with my MagLite.
Another one:
That guy was a hoot. I would've told him my name, but at least the cop was OK about it.
Did the guy show his CCW permit in the Oceanside video? He is refusing to give his name or produce an ID as far as I could tell.
In Indiana, I am supposed to have my carry permit (a piece of pink paper) with me at all times and provide my name for verification purposes that it is indeed me.
In Indiana, I am supposed to have my carry permit (a piece of pink paper) with me at all times and provide my name for verification purposes that it is indeed me.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Did the guy show his CCW permit in the Oceanside video? He is refusing to give his name or produce an ID as far as I could tell.
In Indiana, I am supposed to have my carry permit (a piece of pink paper) with me at all times and provide my name for verification purposes that it is indeed me.
He was open carry. Cop was called on man walking down street with gun. The officer was very good and the "perp" was a jerk.
Bill
Did the guy show his CCW permit in the Oceanside video? He is refusing to give his name or produce an ID as far as I could tell.
In Indiana, I am supposed to have my carry permit (a piece of pink paper) with me at all times and provide my name for verification purposes that it is indeed me.
He was open carry. Cop was called on man walking down street with gun. The officer was very good and the "perp" was a jerk.
Bill
The guy was open carrying an unloaded pistol without a magazine?
I would have arrested him on suspicion of mental incompetence. That's a good way to get your face shot off!
I would have arrested him on suspicion of mental incompetence. That's a good way to get your face shot off!
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But he did not show his permit, did he? or do they not need a permit to carry guns in California?
In Indiana our permit allows open carry (not recommended by LEO so as not to intimidate the citizens) but we have to have our permit with us at all times.
In Indiana our permit allows open carry (not recommended by LEO so as not to intimidate the citizens) but we have to have our permit with us at all times.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The guy was carrying an unloaded pistol without a magazine?
I would have arrested him on suspicion of mental incompetence. That's a good way to get your face shot off!
He was making a "statement".
Personally I think the cop was beyond nice to this tool. I would have had more interaction with him like why is he walking down the street with a unloaded open carry gun?
And as you said, GREAT way to get you self having a "CNN" moment. (replayed every 15min on the cable drool news channels)
The guy was carrying an unloaded pistol without a magazine?
I would have arrested him on suspicion of mental incompetence. That's a good way to get your face shot off!
He was making a "statement".
Personally I think the cop was beyond nice to this tool. I would have had more interaction with him like why is he walking down the street with a unloaded open carry gun?
And as you said, GREAT way to get you self having a "CNN" moment. (replayed every 15min on the cable drool news channels)
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
OK, didn't know that. It's a strange law.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
OK, didn't know that. It's a strange law.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
OK, didn't know that. It's a strange law.
Agreed. Personally I would not want to carry open all the time. (I do when out in the wild)
IF the bad guy is up to no good (guess that would be the reason for him being the "bad" guy
) then who is he going to take out first?
Mister gun on hip.
And IF I had something on my hip open the LAST thing I'd want is for it to be empty. Might as well be a paper weight.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
But he did not show his permit, did he?
No permit needed for open unloaded carry in Peoples republic. And Carry permits are beyond difficult to get there.
OK, didn't know that. It's a strange law.
Agreed. Personally I would not want to carry open all the time. (I do when out in the wild)
IF the bad guy is up to no good (guess that would be the reason for him being the "bad" guy
Mister gun on hip.
And IF I had something on my hip open the LAST thing I'd want is for it to be empty. Might as well be a paper weight.
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